alh m-Tdi marinisation to match Mercruiser Gen1 drive

pan-d-man

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Location
Port Angeles
TDI
00 Golf, 01 Golf, 06 Jetta, 14 JSW
Great thread. It is so good to see others take on this challenge. I am working through a similar build but have a little different parameters to work through. I have sourced a 1.9L 150PD TDI from Quality German to start from. I am using a GTA2056VK turbo that I converted to vacuum actuated. This setup will get me to the target output of 200hp at the crank.

I will be using the exhaust/engine cooler and air cooler from a Yanmar 4LH-DTE. I had the adapter manifold pieces water jet cut.

Building a water cooled exhaust cooler from scratch is a bold endeavor. I have done 3D modeling for molds and you are correct, it is not as easy as it sounds.

For me, the big advantage to using the Yanmar parts is all seawater wetted parts are B61 or better bronze, including the air cooler.

I will more than likely fabricate my own wet elbow though. The Yanmar version is pretty corroded. I prefer to use all 316SS.

I have yet to start working on the mount system. I have a bellhousing and input shaft from a stock gearbox that I will adapt to connect to a Hamilton Jet drive system. The hydraulic clutch will be converted to cable actuated.

I do plan to start a thread on this project but am still collecting parts for the assembly process.

I am still in search of a good somewhat local ECU programmer to help me get mine worked over. There are many things that will not exist on this engine that normally send signal to the ECU such as fuel tank pressure, EGR system, immobilizer, and on and on and on. I have sent out several inquiries but no one has bitten yet.

Keep the thread going, this is great to see...
 

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
Planning to drop in a temporary m-Tdi engine setup into our boat end of this month.

We will do that without the cast aluminum bell and without the aluminum manifold (the cast is still in failure mode ;-).

Not sure what all the dimensions of the mercruiser transom back engine mounts are, until i take the old engine out.

Therefore decided to use a CNC cut plate with adjustable mounts for the test runs. After that i will take these measures into consideration for finishing the aluminum bell.







Finished the cooling circuit and the exhaust section after the turbo this weekend. My engine test bench represents the assembly situation inside the boats engine bay.

The Bowman heat exchanger (big blue part) will be positioned in the exact same spot later on.

This was my first stainless Tig welding project, therefore no closeups of my welds :eek:

Finished everything in 304 stainless, the exhaust section should be 316 but this is only a temporary solution since the turbo will be positioned differently once i use the cast exhaust manifold.
304 will hold up just fine in salt water for a couple of test runs.













Oh, and started the engine again this evening for a quick cooing system and exhaust leakage check, forgot to remove the red cap covering the intake of the turbo, took me several failed starts with lots and lots of white smoke with no idle... i suffered raised pulse and sweat on my forehead while figuring that one out, haha.

The Turbo is a Garett GT22. Plan to boost the beast to 29psi (2 Bar) with bigger nozzles.

Will see how that one works out.

The dyno bench is scheduled to run in September/October for the first time. After finishing the exhaust and Aluminum Bell.
 
Last edited:

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
Ah yes, salt water... bummmmer!

Yep, good for the nose bad for most metals.

Most older Mercruiser and other marine engines perhaps even some later models, pump seawater right tnrough the engine, to keep the cooling system simple...UNBELIEVABLE

ha ha and some worry they could have used the wrong type of antifrezze.
 
8

8v-of-fury

Guest
Even to this date.. 97% of canadian model boats are a seawater cooling system. The more powerful expensice boats with aluminum blocks or heads have closed cooling.

The old iron has been seawater since motorboats became a thing lol.

Everything at our marina is mostly open cooled.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Very interesting. With a cooled manifold the gas entering into the turbine inlet will be at a much lower temperature by design. Careful selection of the turbo is necessary to get best longevity, performance, economy and response.

You don't mention the RPM the engine will operate at your target rated power of 100-120 HP; this will depend on the prop you use and any gear reduction, if any.

At any rate, do not go too big on the turbo - only as big as needed for the compressor to be at a sweet-spot of the efficiency map at rated power, which I can help you calculate (need the Power@Engine RPM). With lower exhaust gas enthalpy, you generally need a smaller turbine. A WG turbo, properly sized and with a correctly chosen A/R ratio, will be key.

Edit: nevermind - I see you've chosen a GT22.
 
Last edited:

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
Very interesting. With a cooled manifold the gas entering into the turbine inlet will be at a much lower temperature by design.
Hi Tdi Meister, not sure about that one, the surface area inside the manifold is rather small, perhaps i could add some cooling fins, but they might burn off at WOT.
In any case, interesting idea, i placed an EGT probe after the Turbo, will be able to compare the data without and with watercooled manifold, will post the results later.

At what rpm range will be the sweet spot running the GT22 to your opinion?

Not sure i will ever get the boat to planing speed using the ALH, its a 25 foot Searay :eek:
 
8

8v-of-fury

Guest
It just takes the power to get up on plane, but I agree.. I don't think 200hp will get it up there though. They would have at least a 240-260hp 350 right?

With the correct gear reduction however..?
 

bmali98

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Location
Dunsford Ontario
TDI
O4 golf pd auto
im glad I stumbled upon this thread. I have a 18.5ft 85 regal and was wondering how a TDI could fit where the 3.0l gas engine is. Apparently its a lot of work so im not likely to attempt it but I love that someone is doing it. Im not predicting you to be able to plane off but to more efficiently plow water would be nice too. Theres also hydrofoils for the outdrive to help with that. Keep up the good work!
 
8

8v-of-fury

Guest
Yes, some trim tabs and a "dolphin tail" on the drive should help with keeping the bow down.

The 3.0L are only roughly 135 BHP, so this would be a damn good engine choice for the smaller already 4 cylinder engines.. You'd match the horsepower and have more torque so you could swing a much larger propeller.. or one of the 5 blades for CRAZY holeshot.

I'd honestly like to put it in to an older volvo DP setup with the counter rotating props.. I drove an 18ft Hunt with a 4.3 4v and the dual prop drive... THE THING WAS SCARY, up outta the water and max speed in seconds.. Best part, it was some 90 year old guys boat and he drove it to the wood EVERYWHERE. Awesome lol.

My ideal setup, would be in a 18-22 foot starcraft. I'd like a 22ft starcraft, and run twin inboard TDI's or AAZ's. It could easily be a 300hp boat with no issue! :)
 

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
im glad I stumbled upon this thread. I have a 18.5ft 85 regal and was wondering how a TDI could fit where the 3.0l gas engine is. Apparently its a lot of work so im not likely to attempt it but I love that someone is doing it. Im not predicting you to be able to plane off but to more efficiently plow water would be nice too. Theres also hydrofoils for the outdrive to help with that. Keep up the good work!
Here a site with videos of a shop that used to do conversions to a 120HP Cummins Mercruiser Diesel. That engine is no longer available it was a 1.7Liter Isuzu. The 24′ Skipjack is able to reach almost 28mph with 11 people on board. Fuel economy went from 1.5 to 5 miles to the gallon.
This video motivated me to give it a try....
I would be happy with a cruisn speed of 25mph
http://affordablemarinesd.com/dealerships/cummins/

If you are interested could share some of my "spare parts" after my project is done.
Depending on what year Outdrive you have it could be a plug and play solution.
 
Last edited:

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
The laser cuts arrived today. Will be now be able to build my flexible engine to Mercuiser adapter.
If time allows i will hot dip galvanize the parts before mounting them to the boat.



Oh and here a picture of the project, at the launch ramp in Morro Bay California

 
Last edited:

pan-d-man

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Location
Port Angeles
TDI
00 Golf, 01 Golf, 06 Jetta, 14 JSW
How ironic, I lived in Cayucos and fished out of Morro Bay back in 2011/2012. Loved it there. So this sea trial is using a TDI? Any idea what kind of HP you are getting?
 

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
How ironic, I lived in Cayucos and fished out of Morro Bay back in 2011/2012. Loved it there. So this sea trial is using a TDI? Any idea what kind of HP you are getting?
Hi Pan d man,

standard power will be around 120HP.

I am prepped to go further than that, step by step.
Have a GT22 charger and bigger nozzles at hand, i believe i can reach a save level around 150 to 160 HP.

Will see if cooling sys holds up @ WOT while keeping the EGT in the correct range.

Yes Morro Bay is awesome, we just moved to the area in 2012.
Love it as well.
 

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
Finalized an experimental intercooler and the extra set of engine mounts this weekend.













Exhaust temperature Sensor and port for exhaust pressure behind Turbo.
pressure should be below 0.1 Kg/cm2(bar) or 1000mm water column, or 75mmhg or 1.45 psi.

This seems to be a problem with many Outdrive turbo engines, resulting in lack of perfomance.
In most cases too much water is injected into the exhaust mixer.

My plan here is to monitor the mixers temperature and inject only a minimum amount of water to keep the temps down.
The rest raw water will be ejected through a separate port at the stern (back) of the boat.
This will be a good optical indicator for a functioning raw water system.



Now its time to disassemble the whole thing and mount it to the second engine for the boat.
Found a nice donor engine on Craigslist around LA.
Will pick it up next weekend.
 
Last edited:

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
the brackets arrived from their hot dip galvanize treatment, the adjustment rods (M16) in 304 stainless.
We are ready for the salt mist on the BOAT.


 
Last edited:

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
very cool project! More pics of the boat please. Make a few extra peices for me to mount a tdi to a mercruiser.
provide some infos about your boat, need the size of the engine bay and Outdrive model year to look into it.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
The Diesel will bring some "gear rattling" issues, especially at slow speeds according to what i read throughout the Net.
Thus, the Tdi was designed with a Dual-Mass Flywheel which has integral springs.
 

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
Thus, the Tdi was designed with a Dual-Mass Flywheel which has integral springs.
Is that the flywheel that's prone to flying apart after a short while ;-)

Not sure i wanted one of these in my car, but for sure not in the boat.
There are very good marine "dampers" on the market, i will test one made by Centa and compare it directly to the original Mercruiser adapter.

Here the Centa adapter
 
Last edited:

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Is that the flywheel that's prone to flying apart after a short while ;-)

Not sure i wanted one of these in my car, but for sure not in the boat.
There are very good marine "dampers" on the market, i will test one made by Centa and compare it directly to the original Mercruiser adapter.

Here the Centa adapter

Yes :p

Well, it's hit or miss. Some make it 75,000 miles and some made it 350,000 miles. The original LUK DMF from 99/00 was thought most robust.

I read through your thread, and you think you can hit 25mph with the hp and gearing, but STILL not be on plane:confused:
 

ben2go

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Location
Gone
TDI
none
Happy to see someone else doing an M-TDI (TDI-M) with a Mercruiser sterndrive.My drive will be the Alpha 1 gen 2.My engine will be M-TDI ALH 1.9L turbo.I will be running close loop cooling with an oil cooler,exhaust cooler,and turbo after cooler.No raw water will touch the major componets.I will use a larger heat exchanger that will cool the system with raw water.It's a raw water to coolant heat exchanger.I will use VW spec coolant.I'm going to use a turbo heat jacket to help keep the heat in the turbo.I would run a keel cooler, but the boat is a planing hull and will be allowed to dry out on the beach at low tide.I will remove, and block off, the Mercruiser water pump and water intake.My exhaust will be through the transom at the water line.The Mercruiser exhaust port will be welded shut on the inside of the drive.


I am trying to find a shop close to me that can dyno an M-TDI.I want to achieve 200 reliable hp at the flywheel.I would settle for 150hp to 175hp.My boat calls for 125hp lightly built or 150hp heavy built.With my boat plans,I will need all 200hp for running the boat and large alternator to charge the battery bank.I also need the dyno graph to help in gearing and prop selection.I wish to stay at the 4800 rpm limit,but I am willing to go a little higher,if necessary.


I'm interested in learning if any VW transmissions have removable bell housings, or if I need to bite the bullet, and cut up a trans case for the bell housing and starter mount.


I saw a spring loaded plate, similar to a clutch disc,that mounts to the fly wheel of straight inboard engines.This plate is supposed to help soften the torque loads when shifting the F-N-R trans.If I can find one,I think I will machine it to fit a stock 1.9 flywheel and accept the Mercruiser coupler.I think this will help extend the life of the coupler.Some companies that make the couplers recommend them being changed in as little as 200 hours.At 8 to 12 hours per day for 16 to 18 months,that's a lot of coupler changes.If the disc works as well as I hope,it may be possible to eliminate the rubber coupler and use a machined steel or stainless steel drive puck.


I am still about a year or two away from the M-TDI build taking priority.The boat build should begin next summer.
 

iddhi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Location
CA
TDI
2000 SDI Jetta
All right, long time no updates, was busy with other projects.
I was able to install the TDI in the boat in July.
had to build a low cost low end engine hoist / gantry crane just for that purpose.

Total cost including Harborfreight chain hoist and lumber $100.- and 1.5 hours of time.

That setup was able to handle the weight of the V8 plus me standing and slightly jumping on top of the engine (my weight 220lbs)....
just in case any of you comes across the situation and need to lift a V8 monster out of a boat without a crane ;-)



Here the engine hanging high on the gantry crane, the top beam bowing under the load, i did not really trust the setup at this point but was standing on top of the engine with no issues, once it was lowered an inch away from the ground.





Here the TDI engine finally installed. I could not attach the engine to the Gimbalhousing as planned since the rear mounting brackets ended up being to short.

Therefore i had to mount the engine on temporary mounts in the back, thus could not test the engine under full load, we tested the boat going 7mph max in the bay. I had only two weeks holiday to install the engine so things are not as detailed as they should be, but everything worked fine so far.
Will improve the back brackets during the next months and should be ready for full throttle testing early next year.

 
Last edited:

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
Looking good! Nice clean install.

That shot of the 2x6" bowing makes me cringe :D Cool idea on the home brew A frame.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Yeah, next time use 2x8 with corner braces!

Just kidding. Looking sweet!
 

pan-d-man

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Location
Port Angeles
TDI
00 Golf, 01 Golf, 06 Jetta, 14 JSW
That is a great looking install. Great job. I sent you an email but have not heard from you. I am looking for some info on the mount brackets and possibly a bellhousing. I am getting close to a complete engine. Final adapter manifolds are in process. The Yanmar cooler and intercooler is working great. Let me know if you received my email. Look forward to more...
 
Top