A5 Brake/clutch fluid flush

[Hurst89]

My 2005.5 is a little overdue for a brake fluid flush (a couple months I guess), but I am planning on getting it done in a couple weeks or over the thanksgiving holiday. I am wondering, do I need Vag-Com to do this? Or do I simply just loosen the bleeder plug and pump the brake pedal once and then do the next wheel...and the next...and the next until I have done each one 5 times? I remember seeing a how-to on bleeding the brakes, but I cannot remember the details. Also, would synpower DOT 4 be acceptable fluid? I have heard good stuff about this and used it in my MGB when I redid the brakes. Or is there another type of DOT 4 that I need to use? I know it has to be DOT 4, not 3 or 5. If anyone can help me out with the procedure, it would be much appreciated. I am just a little fuzzy on the whole thing.

Thanks!
Hurst

 

[oilhammer]

DOT4 is what is required. I use the VAG-COM to operate the ABS pump motor and valves, and push the fluid through. It makes for a better service, better fluid exchange, and a better pedal feel in the end.

 

[Hurst89]

Oilhammer,
Thanks for the quick response. I guess I will take it to the local European car shop to get the fluid flushed. He is a good friend of my Dad's so hopefully he won't charge too much...or maybe it will be a good excuse to get a VAG-COM from rosstech. Can anyone tell me which exact model of VAG-COM I need for my 05.5? And how much do these run once you get the software and all? Thanks

Hurst

 

[Windjammer]

I use the VAG-COM to operate the ABS pump motor and valves, and push the fluid through.

Do What?? No kidding? That's awesome. Can you turn the pump on & off or does it just cycle on/off & you need to cycle it a few times per wheel? Tell us more.

 

[oilhammer]

I just run through the output tests, it operates all the ABS bits...one channel at a time. Just follow the directions. Makes a difference too, if you have a spongy pedal and you just cannot figure out why...that will most likely fix it!

 

[Windjammer]

This is one of the best tips yet.
ps. I had the spongy pedal on both of my 06's & both have corrected themselves. When I did a panic stop it was better. That must be about the same as the output test.

 

[oilhammer]

If you make the ABS work, then yeah it will essentially do the same. But it can be hard (and dangerous) to make all 4 channels work. With the VAG-COM, you do it in perfect safety while sitting still.

 

[Hurst89]

So would I be able to do a proper service by draining manually through bleeding until the resavoir is almost empty, then keep it just barely full enough to keep from taking on air? Then repeat the topping it off/bleeding a couple more times around the car to make sure I have fresh fluid in all the lines? Then after this take the car to the gravel parking lot on the farm and do a couple of hard stops in this (gravel lots make the ABS motor do a lot of pumping) to get all the air out of the ABS system and then check the fluid again? Would that do the job? I am just wondering as I need to get this done soon and don't want to have to pay a lot to have it done if I don't have to. Thanks

Hurst

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, that would essentially work, but the VAG-COM is not that pricey and it can do a LOT of other stuff too.

 

[Hurst89]

Yeah, VAGCOM is definately going to be one of the first tools I get specific to this car, and since my Dad really likes the Jetta and is thinking that if he gets a "car" he might get one of the new 2.0 TDIs, I think a VAGCOM would be good to have, and my Aunt has a VR6 Passat wagon, so I could help with hers too! I just wanted to make sure that for the time being I could do this without having a VAGCOM since I won't really have a chance to order/pay for one until around first of the year.

Hurst

 

[Tim Birney]

Oilhammer,
Thanks for the quick response. I guess I will take it to the local European car shop to get the fluid flushed. He is a good friend of my Dad's so hopefully he won't charge too much...or maybe it will be a good excuse to get a VAG-COM from rosstech. Can anyone tell me which exact model of VAG-COM I need for my 05.5? And how much do these run once you get the software and all? Thanks

Hurst

The VAG-COM HEX+CAN-COM (or -USB) is backwards compatible to all VWs, about $330 U.S. Dollars.
The Micro-CAN-USB (only) is compliant with A5/MKV controllers only (including the B6 Passat), and runs roughly $250 U.S. Dollars. Both are inclusive with software, and future software updates. COM Port to USB converters are not supported by Ross-Tech.

www.ross-tech.com

 

[mjwhoopie]

I'm going to be doing mine soon as well. I got a replacement pressure bleeder for the one that died. I belive in useing one for all my brake work.

Will I still need Vag-com to complete this task even with the pressure bleeder?

 

[Lightflyer1]

You will if you want to actuate the abs system. May/may not be required.

 

[TDI 4 RD]

Does anyone here use Motul DOT 5.1 brake fluid in their A5? If so, how is that product? Any problems? Thanks in advanced for the info.

 

[TDI 4 RD]

Does anyone here use Motul DOT 5.1 brake fluid in their A5? If so, how is that product? Any problems? Thanks in advanced for the info.

Ha, quoting myself. I've sunk to new low. I'm going to try out the Motul 5.1 in my car, since it seems perfectly compatible. I'll report on any issues.

 

[eliotness]

Just a quick question: How much fluid would be required for a complete flush ?

 

[hid3]

yeah, the same question from me. I'm also going to do the brake flush but I'm unsure how much should I purchase.

EDIT: and what's the sequence of wheels I should do the flushing? I believe it is:
1. Rear right
2. Rear left
3. Front right
4. Front left.

Or am I wrong? Thanks.

 

[All of Us]

Amount of fluid needed and sequence for bleeding

I just did this yesterday and used less than 1 liter of ATE super blue in the process. Your use may vary. BTW, that includes doing the clutch bleeding.

With respect to the sequence Bentley (Section 47-5) states: Left front, Right front, Left rear, Right rear is the work sequence for a "normal" brake bleeding. This is for an A5 jetta, it may be different for other generation cars.

Dan

 

[dhdenney]

I was kinda under the impression that the sequence hid3 listed was the correct one, but that's the opposite of what the Bentley is believed to say (I don't have one, btw). Aside from that, I've never heard of a sequence til I owned a VW.

 

[hid3]

I've heard that you must start bleeding from the wheel which is the most far from the reservoir. But now I doubt about what's the correct sequence..

Will purchase a liter of DOT4 and try to bleed.

BTW: why can't I use DOT5.1? I think DOT5.1 is better (is it? why it is better?) and is backwards compatible with DOT4? Or am I wrong?

 

[All of Us]

hid3:

Are you from Latvia? There are other folks who post from all over the world, but if you are Latvian I think you may be the first.

Dan

 

[hid3]

hid3:

Are you from Latvia? There are other folks who post from all over the world, but if you are Latvian I think you may be the first.

Dan

No, I'm from Lithuania It's near Latvia.

BTW, not going too much into an offtopic. Just found a small howto and it states that due to ABS system, brakes must be flushed in this sequence:
1. Front left
2. front right
3. rear left
4. rear right.
It also tells you need to flush the clutch also but the problem is that I don't know where the clutch valve in A5 is...

 

[dhdenney]

No, I'm from Lithuania It's near Latvia.

BTW, not going too much into an offtopic. Just found a small howto and it states that due to ABS system, brakes must be flushed in this sequence:
1. Front left
2. front right
3. rear left
4. rear right.
It also tells you need to flush the clutch also but the problem is that I don't know where the clutch valve in A5 is...

It's under the airbox. You'll see it.

 

[TDI 4 RD]

BTW: why can't I use DOT5.1? I think DOT5.1 is better (is it? why it is better?) and is backwards compatible with DOT4? Or am I wrong?

I think you CAN use DOT 5.1. However, here's what happened to me this past week when I tried to get a local VW mechanic to replace my brake fluid with Motul 5.1:

When I gave the mechanic some Motul 5.1 to use, but he wouldn't do it. He said that using the full synthetic 5.1 would require him to flush the entire brake system with an alcohol solution first, and even then, he couldn't get all the old stuff out of the ABS system, etc, so the result would be a squishy pedal and bad brake performance.


I tried to point out that Motul 5.1 is different from DOT 5 brake fluid, and that everything I've read indicates that Motul 5.1 is compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. However, he still said he couldn't use it.

I think he's confusing DOT 5 and 5.1, but maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts?

I will probably end up doing the brake fluid change myself. I've not done this before, but it's about time I learned. Before I do this, I just wanted to see whether the shop's concerns were valid.
Thanks in advance for guidance.

 

[dhdenney]

Well I looked around a little tonight for another reason and it seems if the Motul were DOT 5 then yes, they're not compatible.

 

[TDI 4 RD]

Well I looked around a little tonight for another reason and it seems if the Motul were DOT 5 then yes, they're not compatible.

But Motul 5.1 is very different from DOT 5, as I mentioned.

My understanding is that mixing DOT 5 with DOT 3, 4, or 5.1 is a big no-no. But you can mix DOT 5.1 with DOT 3 or 4 (and by "mix" I mean that if there's a little DOT 4 left over in your brake system when replacing fluid, it's not a big deal).

The more I've read on line, the more I'm convinced that the mechanic was just mistaken. DOT 5.1 is relatively new, so he had perhaps not heard of it before and assumed it was similar to DOT 5, which it is not. (See, e.g.: http://www.gti-vr6.net/library/wheels_tires_brakes/DOT_5.1.html )

 

[dhdenney]

But Motul 5.1 is very different from DOT 5, as I mentioned.

That's why I said if it were DOT 5.

 

[All of Us]

Location of Clutch bleeder.

hid3:

I had problems finding mine too, until I started removing things. I looked at the Bentley to make sure where the thing mounted and still didn't see it. The Bentley manual has a nice line drawing (Bentley page 30-4) that showed the clutch slave cylinder near the top of the transmission/bell housing. I took out the air filter box and the plastic pipe that feeds the filtered air to the pipe that leads back behind the engine (to the turbo?) and there it was near the top of the trans in the space between the battery box and the multi pump(?) attached to the drivers (LHD) end of the head. Pretty much right underneath the parts I had to remove. I don't know how you could do the bleeding without taking out those parts because I couldn't see it, much less reach it with them in there.

Dan

 

[wrenchman30]

why are we changing the brake fluid, only time is at a brake job or when moisture is in system. dot 5 isnt really needed on any type of car that isnt a race car. by the time your calipers are hot enough to need this type of brake fluid you shouldve kissed your butt goodbye or your car is on fire and hopefully your not in it. the brake system is the one system that really doesnt need tinkered with. remember that old saying if it isnt broke dont mess with it. i really dont want you guys endangering your family or mine. the 5.1 may be new stuff. dot 3 and 4 have worked for years why change. the wrong fluid could cost your thousands in repairs or your life. research it well.

 

[TDI 4 RD]

The maintenance schedule calls for replacement of the brake fluid every two years (because the brake fluid will naturally absorb water over time).

My car was built in 10/05, hence the need to change the fluid now.

VW -requires- DOT 4+ fluid in the Jetta/Golf (not DOT 3/4 which most shops put into the car), hence my interest in DOT 5.1. I understand that it may be overkill, but if, like me, you live in an area of the country with long downhill roads, where people tend to brake too much rather than shifting down, you can end up having to ride your brakes all the way down.

I agree that no one should be putting DOT 5 in these cars. It requires a full alcohol flush of the system, and even then, there's likely to be left over DOT 4 fluid in the car. DOT 5.1 is fine, though, and supposedly works better with ABS systems:
http://www.motul-oil.co.uk/motul%20data%20sheets/DOT%205%5B1%5D.1%20Brake%20Fluid%208070%20(GB).pdf