IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Re: 5th gear upgrade. gears are here!
I'm interested, too, for my A3. I think it would really help.
5th gear upgrade. .681 success 11% RPM drop
- Thread starter david_594
- Start date
Arizona Mike
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear upgrade. gears are here!
I don't get why anyone would want to change there gears.
I don't get why anyone would want to change there gears.
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear upgrade. gears are here!
The same reason you have a .72 (or is .72 stock for an A3?)... Or just to be different... Me personally I kind of like the idea cruising at 110mph without the engine being quite as close to redline.... I'll also have a higher top end when I get around to the pp520's + RC3... That won't be until the spring though..
The same reason you have a .72 (or is .72 stock for an A3?)... Or just to be different... Me personally I kind of like the idea cruising at 110mph without the engine being quite as close to redline.... I'll also have a higher top end when I get around to the pp520's + RC3... That won't be until the spring though..
Ed's TDI
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear upgrade. gears are here!
There are many different reasons. The most obvious one is lower rpms compared to actual road speed. It would be beneficial for mileage, and also, for those of us that have a bit more power, it would give us a bit more room at the top end before running out of gears. Example: I just finished a 400km drive and for much of that drive I was driving at 120kph (75mph) with the engine rpm at 2500. Now wouldn't it be nice if I could have been travelling at the same speed but only turning 2000-2100 rpm? Or even better, maybe travelling at 130-135 kph (80-ish mph) and still turning 2500 rpm? I think these are the main benefits.
watercop
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2002
- Location
- Clay County, FL
Re: 5th gear upgrade. gears are here!
For me it was curiosity combined with a positive experience adding an 0.78 overdrive to my Ford Diesel. American drivers are apparently addicted to acceleration at the expense of fuel economy, and the manufacturers respond to the demand
There may be a regional element to this as well. Those of us operating in flat or gentle terrain near sea level can benefit from lower rpm than San Franciscans, West Virginians, or Western Coloradans.
For me it was curiosity combined with a positive experience adding an 0.78 overdrive to my Ford Diesel. American drivers are apparently addicted to acceleration at the expense of fuel economy, and the manufacturers respond to the demand
There may be a regional element to this as well. Those of us operating in flat or gentle terrain near sea level can benefit from lower rpm than San Franciscans, West Virginians, or Western Coloradans.
moondawg
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear upgrade. gears are here!
I've also heard that people from Damascus don't like to be referred to as "Damascussers" (If you're not laughing, try saying it out loud)
moondawg
I think it's "Coloradorianites"
I've also heard that people from Damascus don't like to be referred to as "Damascussers" (If you're not laughing, try saying it out loud)
moondawg
MileageDude
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
Re: 5th gear upgrade. .70 ratio!
First off, this is a great thread and I wish you all the luck on this gear upgrade. I also hope Rammstein accomplishes his Audi-gear converstion too.
I believe that just a single gear mod in the 5-speed transmission is the easiest and most cost effective approach for many of us.
The true 6-speed is more like 1,780 rpms at 70 mph [if I remember correctly], and the fuel economy is near the high 50's to low 60's from members who've done this upgrade to a 6 sp. I see no reason why the taller 5th gear conversion would not roll as smoothly.
M.D.
First off, this is a great thread and I wish you all the luck on this gear upgrade. I also hope Rammstein accomplishes his Audi-gear converstion too.
I believe that just a single gear mod in the 5-speed transmission is the easiest and most cost effective approach for many of us.
The true 6-speed is more like 1,780 rpms at 70 mph [if I remember correctly], and the fuel economy is near the high 50's to low 60's from members who've done this upgrade to a 6 sp. I see no reason why the taller 5th gear conversion would not roll as smoothly.
M.D.
david_594
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
So I attempted the swap tonight.
So I attempted the swap tonight.
compu_85
Gadget Guy
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
-J
And... And........
-J
DrSmile
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Gear wouldn't come off?
Gear wouldn't come off?
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Dave....
You realize that post was a complete tease right?
Dave....
You realize that post was a complete tease right?
KS97Passat
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
It would be nice if someone would come up with a nice puller for doing this job that he would then rent or lend to other posters. I've enjoyed renting (modest fee) my timing belt replacement tools and Vag-Com laptop setup and appreciate it when others make some of these special tools available.
It would be nice if someone would come up with a nice puller for doing this job that he would then rent or lend to other posters. I've enjoyed renting (modest fee) my timing belt replacement tools and Vag-Com laptop setup and appreciate it when others make some of these special tools available.
JettaJake
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
dunt dunt, dunt dunt, dunt dunt dunt dunt dunt
dunt dunt, dunt dunt, dunt dunt dunt dunt dunt
Rammstein
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Would a sixth gear from the 6 speed TDI tranny would fit as 5th?
It's a .641 btw.
Would a sixth gear from the 6 speed TDI tranny would fit as 5th?
It's a .641 btw.
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
5th gear tends to be extremely easy, or extremely hard.
5th gear tends to be extremely easy, or extremely hard.
VelvetFoot
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Dave wrote me and said it was successful and that he'd drop by today. I gotta get a drive!
Back to painting... we're buying a new house.
Dave wrote me and said it was successful and that he'd drop by today. I gotta get a drive!
Back to painting... we're buying a new house.
david_594
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Yeah. It was a success. Took a few hours and some scary moments but it worked. I got a bunch of pictures though and should be able to come up with atleast something resembling a writeup on this.
The hard part was pulling the big drive gear. I was putting around 80 ft-lbs of torque before it let loose and when it did, it was a big cracking sound... really scary. I also chipped a bunch of teeth on the little gear only to realize you had to do the big gear first. Full writeup will come later.
I am going to try and get the guy I got the gears from to post on here. He is a vortexer but said he would be interested in helping out more people get the gears.
dave
Oh, so can we call it the "dave mod"?
And all the pictures can be found here.
Yeah. It was a success. Took a few hours and some scary moments but it worked. I got a bunch of pictures though and should be able to come up with atleast something resembling a writeup on this.
The hard part was pulling the big drive gear. I was putting around 80 ft-lbs of torque before it let loose and when it did, it was a big cracking sound... really scary. I also chipped a bunch of teeth on the little gear only to realize you had to do the big gear first. Full writeup will come later.
I am going to try and get the guy I got the gears from to post on here. He is a vortexer but said he would be interested in helping out more people get the gears.
dave
Oh, so can we call it the "dave mod"?
And all the pictures can be found here.
Ed's TDI
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
YAAYYY!!! I'm gonna be saving my pennies for this one! Thanks again for being the guinea pig!
Looking forward to whatever write-up you do as it'll be that much easier when the time comes for the rest of us!
Thanks for this info, too! It's always great whenever someone comes up with a new resource for TDI's!
Oh, so can we call it the "dave mod"?[/quote0
- I second the motion! All those in favour, say "Aye"!
- <Rest of TDI Club Members> AAYYYEE!!!</Rest of TDI CLub Members>
- It's unanimous! Three cheers for the "Dave Mod"! Hip, Hip, Hooray!
JettaJake
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
business should be brisk
JJ
woot!
woot! woot!
too easy? how 'bout "the 594 mod"?Oh, so can we call it the "dave mod"?
JJ
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
wOOOOOOOt
It looks like my injectors/RC3 fund is going to get used for some gears instead... That's ok, I don't need all that extra torque going into winter anyway..
Now that I know this works, I'll try to make/modify a puller to make it a little easier. But from the looks of the pictures, there's not too much room behind the gears so the puller that you used seems like it would be the best option.
One question....
Did the new gears go on the shafts easier than the old ones came off? Or did you have to fight with them as well? I can make an installer if they need to be pressed on...
wOOOOOOOt
It looks like my injectors/RC3 fund is going to get used for some gears instead... That's ok, I don't need all that extra torque going into winter anyway..
Now that I know this works, I'll try to make/modify a puller to make it a little easier. But from the looks of the pictures, there's not too much room behind the gears so the puller that you used seems like it would be the best option.
One question....
Did the new gears go on the shafts easier than the old ones came off? Or did you have to fight with them as well? I can make an installer if they need to be pressed on...
VelvetFoot
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
I drove it. Not a super drop to the point of uncomfortableness. 65 mph indicated at 2000 rpm.
I drove it. Not a super drop to the point of uncomfortableness. 65 mph indicated at 2000 rpm.
Mike_M
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Congrats!
You'll have to do some mileage runs and let us know how things shake out, 3 to 5 tanks down the road.
Mike
Congrats!
Mike
david_594
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
TDIJetta99... The gears went on far far far easier than they came off. So that isnothing to worry about. The small gear went on without heat, just a few taps from a rubber mallet got it on. The larger gear when half way on with a mallet, then with a little heat snugged right up when I tigheted down the bolt that holds it on.
TDIJetta99... The gears went on far far far easier than they came off. So that isnothing to worry about. The small gear went on without heat, just a few taps from a rubber mallet got it on. The larger gear when half way on with a mallet, then with a little heat snugged right up when I tigheted down the bolt that holds it on.
MileageDude
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Do you know what your rpm was prior to the gear change-over at 65mph?
M.D.
For those who own the new MKV Jetta manual 5-Speeds, this would be a great long-life mod.
Do you know what your rpm was prior to the gear change-over at 65mph?
M.D.
Sooch
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Nice work. This is really great news. Are the part numbers for the gears in this thread somewhere? I've read through it twice and can't find them.
Nice work. This is really great news. Are the part numbers for the gears in this thread somewhere? I've read through it twice and can't find them.
greenskeeper
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
So for an A3 (which I have) with a lower 5th gear to begin with (I think .71) would this be worth it? Or will I have to find an even lower 5th gear to swap? I am also wondering what effect a lower final drive has on the 5th gear change
(if it increases or decreases the effect significantly, since A3's have both lower final drives and 5th gears than the A4's - but make up the diffence with the smaller diameter tires)
65mph @ 2000rpm as decribed would drop me down from 2300rpm at 65mph currently...which I think would be worth it!
So for an A3 (which I have) with a lower 5th gear to begin with (I think .71) would this be worth it? Or will I have to find an even lower 5th gear to swap? I am also wondering what effect a lower final drive has on the 5th gear change
(if it increases or decreases the effect significantly, since A3's have both lower final drives and 5th gears than the A4's - but make up the diffence with the smaller diameter tires)
65mph @ 2000rpm as decribed would drop me down from 2300rpm at 65mph currently...which I think would be worth it!
osesu96
Veteran Member
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
so I've been following this thread closely and it was the 1st thing I read on Saturday. So being a mileage fanatic, I'm curious about the following thoughts:
1. Is this the type of mod that would work on my 2004 Jetta 5sp? I.e. do I have the proper transmission?
2. How long did it take to swap out the gears?
Finally and most important:
3. Any thoughts on a GTG to swap out a bunch of gears? Assuming a positive response to my 1st question, I'd be a participant in a GTG to swap out the gears.
thanks,
Owen
so I've been following this thread closely and it was the 1st thing I read on Saturday. So being a mileage fanatic, I'm curious about the following thoughts:
1. Is this the type of mod that would work on my 2004 Jetta 5sp? I.e. do I have the proper transmission?
2. How long did it take to swap out the gears?
Finally and most important:
3. Any thoughts on a GTG to swap out a bunch of gears? Assuming a positive response to my 1st question, I'd be a participant in a GTG to swap out the gears.
thanks,
Owen
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
When you guys swap these out you really need to heat the gears. Cracking teeth is evidence that you are applying too much force to the shaft and gear to remove safely.
Again 210F/100C is required to correctly remove and install these gear sets. Buy a cheap electric heat gun and thats all that required. If you heat the gear correctly only a small amount of force is needed from the gear puller.
Good to hear it went back together for you.
DB
When you guys swap these out you really need to heat the gears. Cracking teeth is evidence that you are applying too much force to the shaft and gear to remove safely.
Again 210F/100C is required to correctly remove and install these gear sets. Buy a cheap electric heat gun and thats all that required. If you heat the gear correctly only a small amount of force is needed from the gear puller.
Good to hear it went back together for you.
DB
watercop
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2002
- Location
- Clay County, FL
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
Greenskeeper:
You probably have the 0.717 5th gearset. Going to the 0.681 would multiply your rpm in 5th at any given speed by 0.681 / 0.717 or 0.949. In real world terms at whatever speed you turn 2,000 rpm in 5th, you would then turn 1900 rpm. Or, your 2,000 rpm speed would increase by 5%.
This 5% change in either speed or rpm holds true regardless of final ratio or tire circumference as long as those remain unchanged.
You might see a 2-3% improvement in highway mpg at a given speed since the engine becomes more efficient at lower rpm at highway speeds but aero drag and rolling resistance are unchanged.
Greenskeeper:
You probably have the 0.717 5th gearset. Going to the 0.681 would multiply your rpm in 5th at any given speed by 0.681 / 0.717 or 0.949. In real world terms at whatever speed you turn 2,000 rpm in 5th, you would then turn 1900 rpm. Or, your 2,000 rpm speed would increase by 5%.
This 5% change in either speed or rpm holds true regardless of final ratio or tire circumference as long as those remain unchanged.
You might see a 2-3% improvement in highway mpg at a given speed since the engine becomes more efficient at lower rpm at highway speeds but aero drag and rolling resistance are unchanged.
jackbombay
Top Post Dawg
Re: 5th gear .681 results!
According to my math an indicated 85 would result in 2615 RPM. Which sounds great, but it would be a little tall for towing I think, hmmmm.
According to my math an indicated 85 would result in 2615 RPM. Which sounds great, but it would be a little tall for towing I think, hmmmm.