2015 Golf TDI long crank first start of the day

[pedroYUL]

Yes, I opened the VVT, sorta cleaned it but didn't change it. Nothing was sticking in there, once opened you can actually move the VVT to check operation.

 

[radiator]

I wish you had made photo instruction.In dan's video, the place where vvt is placed, my engine is eqiped with flat black cover. And some say that if you pull vvt valve out, the engine needs to be adapted with vcds as it may not even start up.

 

[740GLE]

yeah seems like it would be worth doing any work on the VVT during a TB job as you're already locking things down.

 

[adjat84th]

I wish you had made photo instruction.In dan's video, the place where vvt is placed, my engine is eqiped with flat black cover. And some say that if you pull vvt valve out, the engine needs to be adapted with vcds as it may not even start up.

Your particular variant of EA288 does not have VVT then, there are several that don't.

 

[740GLE]

But the north american EA288 in the 2015 passat and golf do have it correct?

 

[adjat84th]

But the north american EA288 in the 2015 passat and golf do have it correct?

Absolutely

 

[radiator]

How can I tell if mine has it?

 

[adjat84th]

The flat black cover means you do not have VVT, as the mechanism would be installed there...just as you saw in the youtube video. It's a fairly obvious piece attached to the cylinder head.

 

[5N2]

After replacing the battery, the problem still occurred. I discovered that when I don't turn off the start stop button, there is no problem with long crank, and if I use it, the problem reappears.

 

[radiator]

@5N2
If I get it right. Before you turn off the engine you turn on SS button? Am I right? So you drive around with SS button on and you do nnot suffer from long crank, right? But if it is turned off before the engine is off long crank appears? I am trying to be precise as long crank appeared around the preiod when I had my SS disabled via VCDS.

 

[pedroYUL]

Update: after changing the high pressure fuel pump for another CP4 (new), and topping off the battery, the car now starts perfectly every time.

Also, some weird hiccup that used to happen like 2 blocks away from my house after the 1st start of the day, that is also gone!

Use this puller from O'Reilly's (not the typical 3 jaws):

I can do a timing belt confidently and quick on these CRUA/CVCA...so much practice

Now the plan for the Passat is to properly time the HPFP and see if that solves the issue. If not, then I will shop for another new CP4 or even perhaps a CP3 retrofit.

 

[5N2]

@5N2
If I get it right. Before you turn off the engine you turn on SS button? Am I right? So you drive around with SS button on and you do nnot suffer from long crank, right? But if it is turned off before the engine is off long crank appears? I am trying to be precise as long crank appeared around the preiod when I had my SS disabled via VCDS.

Incorrect, when i use the SS button the long crack appears(i have trouble with turning on the car). When i dont use the button everything is ok.

 

[adjat84th]

Use this puller from O'Reilly's (not the typical 3 jaws):

A whack with dead blow/hammer and appropriate chisel through the window of the accessory bracket works just fine too.

 

[740GLE]

Update: after changing the high pressure fuel pump for another CP4 (new), and topping off the battery, the car now starts perfectly every time.

Also, some weird hiccup that used to happen like 2 blocks away from my house after the 1st start of the day, that is also gone!

Use this puller from O'Reilly's (not the typical 3 jaws):

I can do a timing belt confidently and quick on these CRUA/CVCA...so much practice

Now the plan for the Passat is to properly time the HPFP and see if that solves the issue. If not, then I will shop for another new CP4 or even perhaps a CP3 retrofit.

So is it safe to say timing of the HPFP may factor into it during TB jobs and locking down the HPFP should be in order?

If you are replacing CP4 for CP4, do you suspect issues with the long starts are due to a "warn out" CP4, vs completely failed units seen before?

 

[pedroYUL]

So is it safe to say timing of the HPFP may factor into it during TB jobs and locking down the HPFP should be in order?

If you are replacing CP4 for CP4, do you suspect issues with the long starts are due to a "warn out" CP4, vs completely failed units seen before?

Yes, I do think HPFP timing needs to be close, as the CR TB guide says it should be, you should be able to see the hole after rotating the engine and relocking crank and cam. I will be reporting back with my Passat, as that pump is not timed right now at all.

Originally, I was confused by the differences between early CRs and my CRUA/CVCA cars while reading the TB guide. Perhaps I should make a gen3 CR specific guide for TB changes.

But for the wagon I do think this was a case of a worn CP4, the replacement was another cp4 but I couldn't inspect the old one because it had some core charge that I want back. I believe the plastic cap needs to be pry out, to be able to take the piston out. My wagon regained power in the whole rpm range, so that tells me the original pump was not healthy.

 

[740GLE]

So it's not common for the CP4 to "wear" vs shed metal flakes and cause a no start right?

Seeing the fuel is metered and plenty of rail sensors, i'm shocked you weren't getting and codes for fuel rail out of speck.

Maybe it was just slow in response, but was still able to build full 20kPSI or what ever crazy number it is.

 

[Nuje]

Perhaps I should make a gen3 CR specific guide for TB changes.

Yes...yes, you should.
(With thanks in advance.)

 

[pedroYUL]

Yes...yes, you should.
(With thanks in advance.)

It's in the works. I should have it in a day or two.

 

[adjat84th]

CRUA/CVCA is super similar (at least once you get the timing cover off) to the CJAA video that I believe myturbodiesel.com has on their site. The camshaft pulley just has the one tiny torx screw instead of three bolts, but works in the same manner.
There's another video out there on youtube for the CRUA, but it's almost laughable that they can't re-pin the camshaft after two revolutions and they say.."that's fine"...because they didn't do it right.

 

[pedroYUL]

Follow up: timed the HPFP on the Passat and seems to have solved the random long crank, but more time is needed for a definitive answer. The hiccup a few blocks from the house is not gone, so the Passat will also eventually get a new HPFP.

Now the GSW started again with the long cranks -I should say long is around 2 sec, not like the Diagnose Dan vid- topped up the battery and again the car starts right away. So that got me thinking, since the battery is 3 years old, and the lift pump about 1.5 years, perhaps some connection at the lift pump. I just finished opening up there, cleaned the electricals and open and reseated the plumbing. Will report back if that solves it for good.

 

[jrn_stu]

After replacing the battery, the problem still occurred. I discovered that when I don't turn off the start stop button, there is no problem with long crank, and if I use it, the problem reappears.

Interesting. I'll try to check that myself.

I always turn it off as I start the car. (I press the button on)

I'll try it for a week or two and see if it is the same.

 

[pedroYUL]

Alright, I know I have cried wolf enough times here, but I hope this will be my last entry.

Passat was solved with properly timing the HPFP, my long cranks started after I did the timing belt, so that was my biggest clue. Even the hiccup a few blocks from home is gone, as I think I forgot to prime the fuel system fully again.

For the GSW, indeed the case is closed too. This one started with the long cranks before doing the timing belt. Ultimately the new high pressure fuel pump (HPFP) with correct timing and prime, reconnecting the lift pump -making sure the plumbing connectors o-ring sits well-, prime again. Good battery is also key, as it needs to provide good voltage to the lift pump before the car even cranks.

 

[drewpul]

Hi Pedro,

Could you provide some more detail on where I should start looking on my GSW? Timing belt has not been replaced. Battery is new within the past 3 years and has been tested at Autozone. I am at 12.6V before starting.

Are you saying the new HPFP fixed the issue...you just didn't have it seated well with the O-ring when you installed? Or do you suppose the old HPFP was probably okay?

How are you priming? Are you just running the lift pump through OBDEleven?

 

[pedroYUL]

How long is your cranking Drew?

There is a number of thinks that can create a long crank. I would say, if it is super long cranking like the Diagnose Dan video (8-11 sec), then look at the variable cam system.

Random occurring 2-3 sec cranks, just first one of the day. Look at potentially replacing the lift pump. If there are also random buckings/hesitation, I would suspect the crank position sensor.

Consistent 2-3 sec cranks, just the first one of the day, that's more likely a weak battery.

Yes, the fuel system is primed by activating the lift pump with VCDS or any other capable scan tool.

I chased every one of these, and replaced each one with new OEM parts: crank position sensor, lift pump, and battery. I also replaced the timing belt, and did not time the HPFP, but retiming it did not solve the issue, a brand new pump did.

Don't assume your HPFP is tired, start with the smaller stuff first.

 

[pedroYUL]

A battery that reads 12.6V before cranking is not necessarily a good battery. Have someone read voltage while cranking, if the voltage drops to 10V, then the battery is already weak.

 

[740GLE]

Even at 3 years old, that's not a spring chicken. I mean it "should" still be good, if you were to say a year old battery then i'd be less leary of the health of it.

 

[drewpul]

Pedro, I have tried priming the pump in OBDEleven before the first start of the day. And it still took 3-5 seconds to crank over.

Does that point to anything in particular? Thanks for the above list. That is very helpful.

Also, it pretty much happens every day on a routine basis. But today for example, it is 61 degrees and I normally would have expected a long crank. But it was the first good start in about a month! Puzzling.

I haven't had one nearly as bad as the diagnose Dan example.

 

[pedroYUL]

Drew, check your voltage while cranking. It shouldn't drop much lower than 10v

 

[drewpul]

I checked the voltage while cranking. Lowest value I got was 10.2V during a long crank.

What still puzzles me in the temperature pattern I have. Colder than 30-40 degress, starts up perfectly fine. Anything over 72 degrees outside also starts up perfectly fine. It's that middle range of 40-ish to 72 degress that I have a problem.

I have the issues the first start of the day. And then after the car has been sitting for at least 2 hours or so. (For instnace, this morning, I went out at 9am. And then started my car again just after 11, and it was a longer start)

Regarding the lift pump. I think that must be okay. Since I primed the fuel pump before starting and still had the delayed start. And I also have no performance issues while driving. If the lift pump were weak, it would seem that priming it for 10-15 seconds would be enough for it to bring fuel to the engine.

Even though my cranks are not as long as in the Diagnose Dan video, the VVT is still my suspicion. Since I have zero performance issues while driving, that makes me think it likely isn't a fuel delivery issue.

I'm going to just likely take it into the dealer. And hopefully it's something that can be fixed under the dieselgate warranty.

 

[pedroYUL]

@drewpul : when was the last oil change, and which oil did you use? That can have an impact on how the VVT behaves. Let us know how the dealer approaches this, I have the suspicion they will be clueless.