2015 Golf TDI long crank first start of the day

[radiator]

I've also seen that, after the first bad start, when I try to start it the every other time, the bad start is more prone to happen when I wait 30-60 secs after the ignition-on position. If I crank it just after the glow-plugs-light coming off, the start is generally much better.

The same! Next start just ofter glow plugs go off no long start but if I wait 30 seconds it still is better then at first time but still lazy but better. My neighbour-a geenhorn mechanic- gave his clue to disconnect coolant temp. sensor whenever temp. reaches 15 celcius and above. Did try that but just after engine fires up, engiine fan starts spining like crazy. (engine light come up on dash)

Not camshaft sensor. Crank position sensor. Have you tried that?

I have had that thoughts to have it replaced. But my mechanic says if thaere is no dts (errors) on vcds) it can not be crank sensor. I'll give it a second thought just after he looks through my starter. I'll keep ya posted.
To sumup, why would crank sensor should work properly under 15 celcius and above plays triks?

 

[Rochbry]

The same! Next start just ofter glow plugs go off no long start but if I wait 30 seconds it still is better then at first time but still lazy but better. My neighbour-a geenhorn mechanic- gave his clue to disconnect coolant temp. sensor whenever temp. reaches 15 celcius and above. Did try that but just after engine fires up, engiine fan starts spining like crazy. (engine light come up on dash)


I have had that thoughts to have it replaced. But my mechanic says if thaere is no dts (errors) on vcds) it can not be crank sensor. I'll give it a second thought just after he looks through my starter. I'll keep ya posted.
To sumup, why would crank sensor should work properly under 15 celcius and above plays triks?

When they pulled my cps they tested it's voltage vs new and the two parts were way off. My car never threw a code.

 

[Nuje]

But what id annoying me is that why the hell in the winter (low temps below 15 celcius) no long crank.Can starter work better in low temps. I makes no sense. No errors on vcds.

My guess/explanation would be that in lower temps, the glow plugs activate so that there's some pre-heating in the combustion chamber to help things get started. And (or) that time in which the glow plugs are active is also pressurizing the fuel system so that when the engine cranks, everything is good to primed to go.
(again - this is a guess)

 

[radiator]

So is it possible to change glow plugs cycle to somehow make any adjustments? i don't know, set at what temp. to have them still getting warm?

 

[radiator]

I am seeing my mechanic at the end of the week (finally!) he wants to look through the starter. The thing is that I checked and it valeo nnot bosh. And peple on the Internet say valeo is a piece o sh*t and is not worth to repair. (change brushes etc,) have any of you heard tah valeo starters are not worth doing any of the reapairs?

 

[drewpul]

What is the tool DiagnoseDan is using at 15:55 to lock the timing in place? Do I need to buy that tool to take out the valve? Or would a screwdriver or something similar be sufficient to lock the timing in place?

I'd love to take out that bolt with the valves and try cleaning it first

 

[Nuje]

That looks a whole lot like the little tool that holds the Mk4 shifter (in the cabin) in place while you adjust the shifter cable ends atop the transmission.
T10027A

Looks like diesel geek has their own, too.

 

[pedroYUL]

So, my Passat is cured of the long starts pretty much, pending a little longer testing. But my wife's GSW is not, now it does it randomly could be 1st or any subsequent start during the day.

I also notice that the GSW doesn't really shuts off as quick as the Passat, and hence I'm now suspecting the anti shudder valve. Anyone has any advise on how to approach this ASV?

I want to swap the ASV from the Passat to the GSW and vice versa, but these are no BEW where the ASV is right up to and easily accessible. These ASV have an electrical connectors, and some other plumbing!

 

[pedroYUL]

ASV checks out fine. Now the long crank is strictly the first of the day, so it is loosing prime, just I can't seem to find where.

Anyone with ideas on what to check? I know there are a few connections from the tank to the hpfp, I can undo/redo the ones with spring connectors, and I'm willing to change o-rings by the tank, but where else?

 

[brakey]

I replied last year that my Mk 6 Jetta CJAA TDI sport wagon had long crank times. Well it's intermittent and really it happens in cold and warm or hot weather.

The car is now at 96,000 miles and besides the random long crank times it's been trouble free except some weird extreme inner tire wear.
At 96K I changed the fuel filter, oil and filter.

I have an OBDEleven and Autel pro scan tool. Nothing unusual had come up with either scan tool and I can prime the filter with either tool.
Suspecting loss of prime I replaced the in tank low pressure supply pump with the exact same part number as the original. The was done about 10k miles ago. No change, same issue.

Late June I received a company car lease (2023 Hornet) so the Sportwagen has been sitting for at least 3-4 days without being started.
Now it really looks like its loosing the low pressure prime since it needs to be cranked 2-3 times before it starts.

I downloaded everything off the Erwin website and having no luck searching for a check valve located at the low pressure pump or in the line prior to the high pressure pump.

As described earlier the CJAA does not have the same issue and component that Diagnosis Dan identified.

I will T in a pressure gauge before the filter and high pressure pump to see what if any pressure loss I'm getting.

Any suggestions besides throwing more parts at this?

 

[Nuje]

The method of turning the key without starting (or in KESSY-land, press the START button without the clutch pressed in), and then cranking the engine, has worked near flawlessly for me. Even after not driving the car for a week or more, do that and it fires almost immediately.

Not happy that I have to do it, but with it habit now, meh - whatever. (Although, I do insist on starting the car if my wife is going to be driving it first thing in the day.)

 

[Idk maybe]

I replied last year that my Mk 6 Jetta CJAA TDI sport wagon had long crank times. Well it's intermittent and really it happens in cold and warm or hot weather.

The car is now at 96,000 miles and besides the random long crank times it's been trouble free except some weird extreme inner tire wear.
At 96K I changed the fuel filter, oil and filter.

I have an OBDEleven and Autel pro scan tool. Nothing unusual had come up with either scan tool and I can prime the filter with either tool.
Suspecting loss of prime I replaced the in tank low pressure supply pump with the exact same part number as the original. The was done about 10k miles ago. No change, same issue.

Late June I received a company car lease (2023 Hornet) so the Sportwagen has been sitting for at least 3-4 days without being started.
Now it really looks like its loosing the low pressure prime since it needs to be cranked 2-3 times before it starts.

I downloaded everything off the Erwin website and having no luck searching for a check valve located at the low pressure pump or in the line prior to the high pressure pump.

As described earlier the CJAA does not have the same issue and component that Diagnosis Dan identified.

I will T in a pressure gauge before the filter and high pressure pump to see what if any pressure loss I'm getting.

Any suggestions besides throwing more parts at this?

hey, I know there’s a ton of replies on here. If you’re able to find my comment, I had described exactly what you have had happened, changed the same parts and more and nothing worked. The only thing that did work is changing the battery. I understand it 100% sounds like a fuel issue and I do agree as I chased it down that path too but the battery, even though my car cranked over just fine, happened to be the answer. I also checked with vcds (prior to battery replacement) while cranking and all the pressures etc were where they were supposed to be. I did not T in a gauge and I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s a bad idea other than you are adding the possibility of allowing more air into the system by having that there.

I have also done the key on and wait (I literally do this every morning to push my car out of the garage) and it’s a 50-50 chance that it does the long crank. My long crank has returned after the winter (canada but it was good every single day for probably 8 months or so with the battery being the only thing to have made a difference in the right direction. So the key on and wait may work for some cars but unfortunately doesn’t for mine.

While the issue coming back even after I changed the battery does open up the door to say that that is not the fix, it is. I put my charger on it and it’s good again for a month. Lately I have been far too busy to take the time to hook up the charger but I can say that is the fix.

I have also owned two tdi’s of the previous Gen with the same mods and zero issues so I can understand the feelings when comparing the newer car to the old

Hope this helps

 

[brakey]

Thanks for the reply. The car does need a new battery, while sitting it decided to not start and I checked and the battery is weak but I have had it on a 4 amp battery tender for at least a week, I still plan on putting a pressure gauge on the low side aft of the low pressure supply pump. What is amazing is that I have a 2006 Navion with a 2005 T1N Mercedes Sprinter chassis. I have had so much trouble with this thing but I can leave it sit for over a month and after the glow plug warning light goes of it starts within a few seconds, like almost immediately, go figure.

 

[Idk maybe]

Thanks for the reply. The car does need a new battery, while sitting it decided to not start and I checked and the battery is weak but I have had it on a 4 amp battery tender for at least a week, I still plan on putting a pressure gauge on the low side aft of the low pressure supply pump. What is amazing is that I have a 2006 Navion with a 2005 T1N Mercedes Sprinter chassis. I have had so much trouble with this thing but I can leave it sit for over a month and after the glow plug warning light goes of it starts within a few seconds, like almost immediately, go figure.

That’s kind of a downside to the new stuff, even though the technology etc is great, it makes them more and more voltage sensitive. If your battery is weak, it could be to the point where it has failed even though it can still take a charge and turn the car over. If it were me, I would buy a new battery, put the charger on it overnight and go from there. AGM batteries generally only really like the be charged at 2 amps

 

[amitsekhon]

I am having intermittent long crank issue as well. It happens more when it's mild cold.I mean around 5~15 deg C.
I have found a trick. Turn the ignition on (wait for the glow light to go off) and off and On and then start the car.Basically heating up the glow plugs twice. I guess by doing that, glow plugs are heating better.

So I am suspecting a glow plug related issue. Perhaps a glow plug module. No error codes though. I will try to replace the glow plug module when I get a chance.

 

[brakey]

I just put a new battery in the Jetta. We will see it that fixes it.
As I said in previous posts that the Jetta has been sitting about 3 weeks since we got the new Dodge Hornet. Every time I try to start it with the old battery it takes successive long crank times (like 3 or more) before it starts.
I can let my Sprinter Navion motorhome sit for months and when I turn the key on the fob is starts instantly.
Since I changed the battery I need to clear the faults before I can judge if it made a difference.

 

[brakey]

As stated in the previous post, I put an new group 47 Interstate battery in the Jetta about 4 or 5 days ago. I have been busy with other projects so I haven't had the time to start or finish troubleshooting the long crank issue.
Make a long story short " NO IMPROVEMENT". The car sat for ~4 days and I moved the car out of the garage but it took 1/2 dozen tries to get it to start. It was obvious, subjectively that it was starving for fuel as it tried a couple times to fire and did not continue to run.
Next I will check the secondary low pressure fuel pump to see if I'm getting any flow. The lift pump in the tank was replaced less than 10K miles ago and that didn't help either.

 

[Rh1464]

I’ve had an extended start on a passat CRLB engine for about 5 years. The timing has been checked/reset when the belt was changed last.
I recently found an interesting YouTube video about the problem and a solution, and also found a VW tech bulletin referencing the issue and its possible cause and solution. It is to do with a problem with the variable valve timing.

Type ‘ TDI 2.0 EA288 long crank diagnosis’ into YouTube. Think it’s a Dutch guy, but the content, analysis of the issue and diagnosis is spot on.

 

[740GLE]

So what's the best thing to try with this problem?

Replacing CPS?

More and more first start of the morning is getting to 3-5 seconds before it fires up. Battery is new last year so I'm assuming >80% life left.

 

[Rochbry]

So what's the best thing to try with this problem?

Replacing CPS?

More and more first start of the morning is getting to 3-5 seconds before it fires up. Battery is new last year so I'm assuming >80% life left.

Yes. Absolutely change the cps. It is not overly expensive and can make this problem disappear. Well it did for me. Let us know if it helps. Have them test the voltage on the old and new part. Mine was way off.
Good luck. Let us know. We need to put this thread to bed lol

 

[radiator]

CPS have been changed and long crank still occures. I guess it depends on outside temp. lower than 15 no long crank ever sins i have owned it. Above 15 randomly Long crank. My engine is 1.6 105 bhp and some say there is no variable valve timing in my engine the others say my engine is equipped wih variable valve timing.

 

[Rochbry]

CPS have been changed and long crank still occures. I guess it depends on outside temp. lower than 15 no long crank ever sins i have owned it. Above 15 randomly Long crank. My engine is 1.6 105 bhp and some say there is no variable valve timing in my engine the others say my engine is equipped wih variable valve timing.

Oh barf. I thought we had the silver bullet.

 

[pedroYUL]

There is no silver bullet. I have changed: battery, lift pump, CPS, fuel metering valve, and still have long cranks. I just think all of those can result in long cranks, for anyone.

But I now seriously suspect the HPFP. Installing a new one soon. Will report back if it truly solves the issue.

 

[radiator]

Will report back if it truly solves the issue.

Please do so. Did you replace the fuel sensor? On each side of the rail there are fuel valve and on the other fuel sensor. If the above are the brand new ones HPFP may be at suspect. And that is wahat I am affraid of concidering the final cost (pump and labor).Looking forward to hear you have dealt with the problem.

 

[pedroYUL]

I replaced the metering valve at the top of the high pressure fuel pump. Haven't touched the pressure sensors, my car has no codes for fuel low or high pressure.

And regarding the variable valve timing (VVT), yes it is there, I did open it up and all found was perfectly clean oil, no crud. So I just closed it back up.

 

[radiator]

Do you have any diy how to get to vvt?Maybe I just take it out and clean it.

 

[740GLE]

There is no silver bullet. I have changed: battery, lift pump, CPS, fuel metering valve, and still have long cranks. I just think all of those can result in long cranks, for anyone.

But I now seriously suspect the HPFP. Installing a new one soon. Will report back if it truly solves the issue.

What'd you do on your passat to solve the issue?

Seeing it is such an specific thing, first start after a long sit it points to a sticky VVT spool valve as the diagnose dan video of the GTD. I just didn't know how it applied to our NA EA288

To me a sensor crank of cam is kinda fail or not. it's just a hall effect sensor. Kinda scratching how it could fail then come back to life.

 

[pedroYUL]

@740GLE : Passat CVCA has the same parts changed and VVT checked, somehow the long cranks are a lot less common for the Passat, but still randomly there. VVT has fluid beautiful oil, no crud, all passages free on both cars.

One recent thing is that I did not time the HPFP when I did the timing belt for either car. Now, if memory serves right, I thing the GSW was having occasional long cranks even before I did the TB. I just redid all the timing to the T for the wagon, and time will tell if the cranks get better. If not, I will be changing the pump next.

 

[pedroYUL]

I did hit a snag with the HPFP, not sure how to remove the hub, I believe I need a puller, but the space is very limited...not even sure there is enough room for the jaws to get behind the hub.

...or should I whack the pump spindle against the bracket, but what if the bracket breaks?

EDIT: do not hit the pump spindle, there is a puller for it.

 

[740GLE]

so you checked VVT but didn't it?

I wonder if a cleaning takes care of 90% of the issue, but parts change out cures the other 10%.