2011 Golf TDI viscosity - 5w30 or 5w40?

jpsum

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So I stopped by my dealer to pick up some oil for my 2011 golf TDI. They gave me 5w-30 instead of 5w-40 as mentioned in the manual. When I questioned them, they doubled checked and said that is what they always use on common rail diesels and they don't even have 5w-40s. I showed them the manual and they said it is probably a miss print.

What or who is right?
 

ruking

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So I stopped by my dealer to pick up some oil for my 2011 golf TDI. They gave me 5w-30 instead of 5w-40 as mentioned in the manual. When I questioned them, they doubled checked and said that is what they always use on common rail diesels and they don't even have 5w-40s. I showed them the manual and they said it is probably a miss print.

What or who is right?
The real arbiter is the VW 507.00 specification. What does it refer to in your 2011 Golf owners manual ? It can NOT be a VW 507.00 specification without being a 5w30 oil, if VW 507.00 specification is indeed specified. You might want to take it back for a refund.

In two TDI's, I have found a properly broken in and running TDI uses little to almost no oil; if you use a 10,000 miles OCI (VW recommended OCI). Indeed the original "spare" L of oil bought to carry in the trunk was going on 8 years old and 150,000 miles, before I decided I wanted to put it finally "in the mix" so to speak". You have also paid for 3 each 10,000 miles service intervals; specifically 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 miles. After that mileage, time, you may decide on other VW 507 5w30. brands. You will also find that some folks will bypass their dealer altogether because of situational snafus. Some have even gotten the dealer to provide the "parts" and some folks have DIY'ed.

Now there are some very serious threads about whether (after warranty of 3 years/36,000 miles) Mobil One 5w40 MB 229.51 ESP might be a better choice, if one actually wants lower total wear metals per 1,000 miles.
 
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FowVay

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Simple answer - 5W-30 meeting VW Norm 507.00..

You should have received a gold 1 liter bottle of Castrol SLX Professional LL-03 in the viscosity of 5W-30 with the norm VW 504 00/507 00; ACEA A3/B4, C3 on the back of the bottle.

The cost should have been around $8.20 cents.
 

jpsum

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Simple answer - 5W-30 meeting VW Norm 507.00..
You should have received a gold 1 liter bottle of Castrol SLX Professional LL-03 in the viscosity of 5W-30 with the norm VW 504 00/507 00; ACEA A3/B4, C3 on the back of the bottle.
The cost should have been around $8.20 cents.

That's the exact bottle that they sold me. The price is right too.

Manual says 507 00. So 5w-30 is ok?
 

jpsum

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The real arbiter is the VW 507.00 specification. What does it refer to in your 2011 Golf owners manual ? It can NOT be a VW 507.00 specification without being a 5w30 oil, if VW 507.00 specification is indeed specified. You might want to take it back for a refund. In two TDI's I have found a properly broken in and running TDI uses little to almost no oil if you use a 10,000 miles OCI (VW recommended OCI). You have also paid for 3 each 10,000 miles service intervals; specifically 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 miles. After that time you may decide on another brand. Indeed the original "spare" L of oil bought to carry in the trunk was going on 8 years old and 150,000 miles before I decided I wanted to put it finally "in the mix" so to speak"

Now there are some very serious threads about whether (after warranty of 3 years/36,000 miles) Mobil One 5w40 MB 229.51 ESP might be a better choice, if one actually wants lower total wear metals per 1,000 miles.

So are you saying that 507 00 don't come in 5w-40?
 

ruking

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So are you saying that 507 00 don't come in 5w-40?
That is correct.


MB 229.51 specification oils comes in two viscosities 5w40 AND 5w30. Mobil One ESP MB 229.51 comes in 5w40.
 
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RalphVa

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Apparently in the spec, to be 5w30. This means that 0w30 is okay, too. Some have reported that Mobil 1 ESP is available in 0w-30. This is what I use in my diesel tractor. John Deere specs xw30 as okay for our climate here in central Virginia.

Many gasser car manufacturers are specing 5w20 as okay. I'm using 5w-20 in my Tacoma pickup 4 cylinder now. It seems to be providing better mileage, but I don't drive the beast much now to get much data yet.

Except for those with older TDIs that have had cam problems, xw-30 seems to be fine for diesels. I'd started using 0w30 in our 1983 240D for 2-3 years before selling it. Provided about 1 mpg better mileage.
 

ruking

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Actually, there are some 0w-30 and 0w-40 229.51 oils: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
I really wanted to stay with what is available in the US. VW 507 is "boutique" in the US market. It is almost totally ubiquitious in the European markets. Probably the same for MB 229.51. , albeit 5w40, 5w30, 0w30, 0w40.

The discussion here really centers around the fact that the 5w40 viscosity (MI 5w40 ESP MB 229.51) yields less aggressive wear metals than in VW 507.00 5w30. with the low saps requirements.

So, the upshot is if one wants to go to a 5w30, 0w30, 0w40 MB 229.51, comparisons really haven't been explored. And if so, it makes sense to stay with the VW 507.00 5w30. If one is ok with more aggressive wear metals with the 5w30 507.00 over the MB 229.51 5w40 (some have run UOA tests already) it would make sense to stay with the VW 507.00 5w30; and untill a few UOA's are run on the 5w30, 0w30, 0w40 MB 229.51.
 
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tdi90hp

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VW warranty demands ...507 which means 5W30....castrol...fuchs...mobil....whatever you choose...warranty claims demand 5w30....i just got new TDI and while under warranty it stays with 507 5W30 up to 62,000 miles (canadian warranty is 100,000kms or 62K miles)...maybe it's the filtration system...maybe it's the long intervals, maybe it's the better quality oils but there must be a reason....5w30 for me....for my new 2011 TDI golf....
 

Drivbiwire

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If it were my car, I'd go to a Mercedes dealer and ask them for the Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 Formula M. It EXCEEDS all the requirements of the Emissions system on your TDI and is required for use in the "Clean Diesels" for Mercedes. The difference is that it has a better viscosity range for lower wear.

If you overlay the two specifications, the Mercedes 5w40 has a higher wear protection rating than the VW 5w30. Aside from that, absolutely identical except for the label that does not have the VW507.00 on it. The spec I prefer, MB229.51 and 5w40.

In a pinch, you could use the Delvac 1 5w40 ESP, this still complies for all DPF engines with aftertreatment (LowSAPS). This does have a very slightly higher Sulfated Ash content, so like I said in a pinch, but no worries of it contaminating any of the emissions system devices. It is also a Clean Diesel rated oil.
 

tdi90hp

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allright allright....re-read CANADIAN (check usa one yourself)....owners manual. An owner can use 5w30 OR 5w40 507 rated oil....soooo....DBWs suggestion is ok. Gonna call the Benz dealer and see what they charge for oil when close to change time....Thanks.
 

jpsum

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allright allright....re-read CANADIAN (check usa one yourself)....owners manual. An owner can use 5w30 OR 5w40 507 rated oil....soooo....DBWs suggestion is ok. Gonna call the Benz dealer and see what they charge for oil when close to change time....Thanks.
The US manual says that if the car has filtration, it must use 507 00. I'm sticking with 5W-30 507 00 then. 5W-40 is probably just a typo.
 
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tditom

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I can see where the confusion comes from. They should emphasize the VW spec and leave the weight out of it.
 

tdiatlast

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tdi90hp: Your TDI has the DPF, right? So, has anyone here determined that there is any mechanical difference between US and Canadian TDIs?

My 1st out-of-warranty oil changes will be the Mobil1 ESP 5w-40 Formula M.
 

tditom

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Highly doubtful that any auto mfr would make anything specific for a market as small as Canada.
 

wensteph

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So, has anyone here determined that there is any mechanical difference between US and Canadian TDIs
Since they can be cross imported and are emission compliant in both countries I can't imagine they would be different.
 

ruking

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The US manual says that if the car has filtration, it must use 507 00. I'm sticking with 5W-30 507 00 then. 5W-40 is probably just a typo.
Thanks for posting the "EXACT" page that probably compelled you to post in the first place. When I bought my 03 TDI (in 03) (while the gobbity goop was slightly different) it was still AS confusing. That actually motivated me to go to a local GTG to ask those questions. What are the "correct" oils and probably more importantly logic behind,...WHY? Indeed VW has never sent any clarifications, going on 8 MY's. Now I have the Bentley's and do get the periodic updates, etc.. At first I thought it was probably bad translation, technical vs writing, etc.

So (to me anyway) what they are REALLY talking about is; the OEM factory oil fill. So DEFACTO, that oem factory fill (in which case VW indicates a "specialized 5w40") was used. Given the first 10,000 miles OCI (included in the price); that oem oil fill will be drained and replaced with VW 507.00 5w30 (hopefully the dealer will used the correct oil.) Dutifully, you followed the instruction and bought the correct replacement oil (Castrol SLX LL03 gold bottle 5w30 VW 507) in case you needed to TOP the oem filled 5w40, during this period.

So yes, VW 507.00 5w30 is what the manual is referring. Of course, you do have the DPF?

So (more down the decision tree line) more on an option/ and LOGIC progression discussion using the provided decision tree, and in line with Drivbiwire's recommendation of 5w40, you CAN use a 5w40 (sans DPF, albeit VW 505.01 which IS a 5w40 viscosity !!!!! However, VW 505.01 is NOT low saps. It should now be apparent Mobil One MB 229.51 5w40 IS low SAPS !!!! The warranty issue will now be that VW 507 5w30 is the recommendation, while after warranty MB 229.51 5w40 will work and just wonderfully as it is both low saps and 5w40 but not VW 507.00 specificationed.

I am sure this is all getting clearer as MUD.
 
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jbright

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jpsum, my 2009 manual is a general one with certain sections that are diesel specific. I have a feeling yours is as well judging from the chart two paragraphs down from your finger in the photo. This may be the reason it mentions one oil in the text (the correct one for gasoline engines) but refers to a 507.00 oil for diesel engines with DPF in the spec chart.
 

ruking

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jpsum, my 2009 manual is a general one with certain sections that are diesel specific. I have a feeling yours is as well judging from the chart two paragraphs down from your finger in the photo. This may be the reason it mentions one oil in the text (the correct one for gasoline engines) but refers to a 507.00 oil for diesel engines with DPF in the spec chart.
Not to further cloud the picture, but if one looks at the recommended VW specification they are SHARED/interchangeable (same bottle), ie., my Total Quartz INEO 1 L black bottle shows VW's 504/507, which again is 5w30.
 
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tdi90hp

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sorry it was late when I was writing...Canadian manual is same as usa but warranty clearly different. 507 required both countries. since 507 does not seem avail in 5w40 one must be vigilant to run 5w30 507. sorry for confusion. so for canadian CR engines...10K OCI and 5w30 507....why does no manufacturer make a 5w40 507??
 

jpsum

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It's funny that the manual says that all cars were filled with 5W-40 at the factory. So assuming that people on this forum is correct that 5W-40 don't come in 507 00 spec, that means VW put in the wrong oil in the 2010 - 2011 cars???
 

tditom

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It's funny that the manual says that all cars were filled with 5W-40 at the factory. So assuming that people on this forum is correct that 5W-40 don't come in 507 00 spec, that means VW put in the wrong oil in the 2010 - 2011 cars???
Yeah- that certainly doesn't look right. Makes me wonder if they weren't thinking of tdi's when they referenced the wt.
 

JSWTDI09

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It's funny that the manual says that all cars were filled with 5W-40 at the factory. So assuming that people on this forum is correct that 5W-40 don't come in 507 00 spec, that means VW put in the wrong oil in the 2010 - 2011 cars???

No, what it means is that the manual is wrong. VW (and other manufacturers) are notorious for poor proofreading of manuals. The same manual is included with ALL new VWs whether they are TDIs, or gassers and the specs for these different models sometimes get confused.

Just make sure you use an oil that says it is VW 507.0 approved and you will be OK. As of now ALL 507 approved oils are 5W30. The problem is not with your car or the factory. The problem is with your manual. If you look closely, I'll bet you can find other mistakes in the manual also.

Have Fun!

Don
 

ruking

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It's funny that the manual says that all cars were filled with 5W-40 at the factory. So assuming that people on this forum is correct that 5W-40 don't come in 507 00 spec, that means VW put in the wrong oil in the 2010 - 2011 cars???
Correct. Their own documentation says (defacto) they are incorrect.

HOWEVER, it is not so commonly known they have in more than a few VW oem MY owners manual's say and or imply they use break in oil and that 10,000 miles is a break in interval. The issue is they never really say definitively what viscosity that BI oil really is. It is more commonly understood that while VW can not and does not control the conditions during BI they do know that 10,000 miles of running BI oils will yield certain ranges of results, which can be considered statistically "normal".
 
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jpsum

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OK, when I bring my car in for an oil change at the dealer, I'm going to photocopy this page of the manual, highlight the 507 00 part, and tape it to the dash of the car. Can't be too careful.
 

Henrick

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It's funny that the manual says that all cars were filled with 5W-40 at the factory. So assuming that people on this forum is correct that 5W-40 don't come in 507 00 spec, that means VW put in the wrong oil in the 2010 - 2011 cars???
It might be a misprint, outdated information or just whatever they thought it would be correct.

PD engines came from the factory filled with a special Fuchs oil 0w-30 (VW 506.01 I think) for the break-in period. However, the manual also said these were filled with 5w-40...
 

ruking

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OK, when I bring my car in for an oil change at the dealer, I'm going to photocopy this page of the manual, highlight the 507 00 part, and tape it to the dash of the car. Can't be too careful.
It is also good to triangulate the information. SO if they indeed use VW 507 (Castrol LSX 5w30, VW 507. gold bottles) the stock number on the invoice should be # G0521951 L, 5 units (aka liters).
 

TornadoRed

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If it were my car, I'd go to a Mercedes dealer and ask them for the Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 Formula M. It EXCEEDS all the requirements of the Emissions system on your TDI and is required for use in the "Clean Diesels" for Mercedes. The difference is that it has a better viscosity range for lower wear.

If you overlay the two specifications, the Mercedes 5w40 has a higher wear protection rating than the VW 5w30. Aside from that, absolutely identical except for the label that does not have the VW507.00 on it. The spec I prefer, MB229.51 and 5w40.
Your advice is good, BUT in my opinion the OP should stick with a VAG-spec oil until the end of the warranty period. THEN he can switch to the M1 ESP Formula M, if it is available from a retailer near him.

Is it still true that Pep Boys are the only ones selling M1 ESP Formula 5w30 and ESP Formula M 5w40?
 
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