2011 Golf TDI viscosity - 5w30 or 5w40?

[pawel]

Your advice is good, BUT in my opinion the OP should stick with a VAG-spec oil until the end of the warranty period. THEN he can switch to the M1 ESP Formula M, if it is available from a retailer near him.

Is it still true that Pep Boys are the only ones selling M1 ESP Formula 5w30 and ESP Formula M 5w40?

Yes for $7.99 per 1 L bottle. I think that I saw a Mobil 1 0w40 ESP there as well. Will confirm.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

VW owners' manuals are notoriously inaccurate.

 

[MayorDJQ]

Not to further cloud the picture, but if one looks at the recommended VW specification they are SHARED/interchangeable (same bottle), ie., my Total Quartz INEO 1 L black bottle shows VW's 504/507, which again is 5w30.

As I understand VW ratings, that's because 507 supersedes all previous "lower" ratings. So PD owners can use it if they're so inclined.

If it were my car, I'd go to a Mercedes dealer and ask them for the Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 Formula M. It EXCEEDS all the requirements of the Emissions system on your TDI and is required for use in the "Clean Diesels" for Mercedes. The difference is that it has a better viscosity range for lower wear.

If you overlay the two specifications, the Mercedes 5w40 has a higher wear protection rating than the VW 5w30. Aside from that, absolutely identical except for the label that does not have the VW507.00 on it. The spec I prefer, MB229.51 and 5w40.

In a pinch, you could use the Delvac 1 5w40 ESP, this still complies for all DPF engines with aftertreatment (LowSAPS). This does have a very slightly higher Sulfated Ash content, so like I said in a pinch, but no worries of it contaminating any of the emissions system devices. It is also a Clean Diesel rated oil.

Your advice is good, BUT in my opinion the OP should stick with a VAG-spec oil until the end of the warranty period. THEN he can switch to the M1 ESP Formula M, if it is available from a retailer near him.
Is it still true that Pep Boys are the only ones selling M1 ESP Formula 5w30 and ESP Formula M 5w40?

I think Tornado hit the nail on the head. While under warranty, I certainly wouldn't give a dealer any excuse to deny coverage. 507 is required. 507 is only available in 5w30. Therefore 0w40 and 5w40 are unacceptable--as far as the warranty is concerned.

That said, I'm interested in using 5w40 when out of warranty. BUT, I'll want to see UOIs from other people first, as I've never been too keen on being a guinea pig.

OK, when I bring my car in for an oil change at the dealer, I'm going to photocopy this page of the manual, highlight the 507 00 part, and tape it to the dash of the car. Can't be too careful.

You'd be better off just changing the oil yourself. The "Carefree Maintenance" programs is not very carefree for TDIs. Most of the time you need to babysit the service department to make sure you got the correct spec oil in the correct quantity.

 

[tdiatlast]

I've got 8 liters of Mobil1 ESP 5w-30, that I purchased 18 months ago. Now that I'm doing my own oil changes, and having enjoyed the viscosity discussion here, I'd like to change to Mobil1 ESP M 5w-40. I assume I can mix the 5w-30, 50/50 with Mobil1 ESP M 5w-40.

Correct?

 

[MayorDJQ]

I've got 8 liters of Mobil1 ESP 5w-30, that I purchased 18 months ago. Now that I'm doing my own oil changes, and having enjoyed the viscosity discussion here, I'd like to change to Mobil1 ESP M 5w-40. I assume I can mix the 5w-30, 50/50 with Mobil1 ESP M 5w-40.

Correct?

I don't see why not. You should wind up with something like 5w35.

They must have a customer assistance/inquiry phone number or email address.

 

[TooSlick]

The Mobil 1/ESP, 5w-40 has not been tested in the CBEA engines. Whether it could meet the VW 504.00/507.00 specs is a matter of speculation. Having said that, there is enough overlap between the two specs that I'd feel comfortable running a MB 229.51 oil in the latest engines, particularly if it also met the VW 505.01 specification. I consider the PD engines to be the most difficult to lubricate properly.

I would NOT use an API, CJ-4/SM oil in the CBEA engines, simply because the allowable ash levels are 80% higher (1.0%, vs 0.6%)

TS

 

[pawel]

The Mobil 1/ESP, 5w-40 has not been tested in the CBEA engines. Whether it could meet the VW 504.00/507.00 specs is a matter of speculation. Having said that, there is enough overlap between the two specs that I'd feel comfortable running a MB 229.51 oil in the latest engines, particularly if it also met the VW 505.01 specification. I consider the PD engines to be the most difficult to lubricate properly.

I would NOT use an API, CJ-4/SM oil in the CBEA engines, simply because the allowable ash levels are 80% higher (1.0%, vs 0.6%)

TS

So, are we looking for a brave owner to run Mobil 1 ESP 5w-40 and do an UOA? Can winter temps influence the results? And as far as I understand it correctly, 5w-40 can reduce wear but it will lower mpg's?

 

[ruking]

So, are we looking for a brave owner to run Mobil 1 ESP 5w-40 and do an UOA? Can winter temps influence the results? And as far as I understand it correctly, 5w-40 can reduce wear but it will lower mpg's?

It is amazing that there are been precious few 09,10,11 owners who have done this (..."to run Mobil 1 ESP 5w-40 and do an UOA"...) and posted it in the TDI UOA Database http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814 Sure, of the few that have, most have done factory fill break in UOA's. I have read in passing that the factory fill break in oil can be one of two: Fuchs and/or Total. In any case, while break in wear metals have been factorially more than Mk IV 1.9 TDI engines, factory fill UOA's have been characterized as remarkably consistent, albeit, higher break in wear metals. Again this would indicate that it is probably an imperative thing to run the break in factory fill for the FULL interval of 10,000 miles recommended by VWA.

Drivbiwire did a 5w30 vs 5w40 (Mobil One MB 229.51 test). There is a thread where he posted 40% less wear with (you guessed it) 5w40.

 

[Scratcher]

The 5/40 would provide better protection at higher ambient temps which would make it a good summer oil. Strange to me that VW wouldn't recommended a 40 weight for a diesel since the higher compression of a diesel engine really pounds its oil.

 

[ruking]

The 5/40 would provide better protection at higher ambient temps which would make it a good summer oil. Strange to me that VW wouldn't recommended a 40 weight for a diesel since the higher compression of a diesel engine really pounds its oil.

It would be better all year round. Actually if you read the specification for VW 507 5w30, it is pretty simple to infer they do. HOWEVER the issue is most people do not keep their engine oil in long enough (10,000 miles OCI and UNDER) to experience the results of the oil's viscosity thickening (to 5w40).

 

[MayorDJQ]

The 5/40 would provide better protection at higher ambient temps which would make it a good summer oil. Strange to me that VW wouldn't recommended a 40 weight for a diesel since the higher compression of a diesel engine really pounds its oil.

The CR engines only run at 16:1 compression, whereas the previous generations run at 19.5:1 and higher.

 

[ruking]

The CR engines only run at 16:1 compression, whereas the previous generations run at 19.5:1 and higher.

I am not sure how that would be a nexus???

One thing that I have never heard resolved is the factorial increase in total wear metals between the Mk IV engines ie ALH or even PD's and the 09,10,11 CR engines. If one looks at the VW TDI UOA data bases http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814 there is literally a HUGE factorial difference (12.34 TIMES greater) between the lowest total wear metals (#'s 1.2.3. avg of 1.90) vs #'s73,76,77,78, avg of 23.45175)

One conclusion is factorially more wear (12.34 times) is both the new norm and ... normal. !!!?????

 

[zeuloa]

The US manual says that if the car has filtration, it must use 507 00. I'm sticking with 5W-30 507 00 then. 5W-40 is probably just a typo.

What I understand from this is that it was filled at the factory with 5W-40. This could be what VW prefers for a break-in oil. It asks that when re-filling you use 507, which is 5W-30. I don't find it confusing, just don't have to read into it.

 

[jpsum]

What I understand from this is that it was filled at the factory with 5W-40. This could be what VW prefers for a break-in oil. It asks that when re-filling you use 507, which is 5W-30. I don't find it confusing, just don't have to read into it.

What is obvious to you may not be for others. It's not common knowledge that 507 00 does not come in 5W-40.

 

[zeuloa]

What is obvious to you may not be for others. It's not common knowledge that 507 00 does not come in 5W-40.

My responce was not intended directly to you, but to those that are aware that 507 only comes in 5W-30 and insist that the manual is implying there are 2 viscocities for 507.

We humans tend to look for something that is not there....

 

[Bob_Fout]

Oh the horror of 5w30 diesel oils.

http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_LE_5W-30.aspx

http://www.mobil.co.uk/Shared-Files-LCW/mobil-delvac-1-le-5w30_eame_en.pdf

 

[Scratcher]

Just picked up my new TDI yesterday. Service manual says 5/30 or 5/40.

 

[642 XAG]

Just picked up my new TDI yesterday. Service manual says 5/30 or 5/40.

Are you sure it doesn't say it has 5/40 in it now for break-in but you have to put 507 (5/30) in it going forward?

 

[MayorDJQ]

Just picked up my new TDI yesterday. Service manual says 5/30 or 5/40.

Did you read any of the preceding pages of this post?

 

[Scratcher]

Did you read any of the preceding pages of this post?

I did

 

[Scratcher]

The statement at the bottom right of page 252 in the owners manual under the heading General recommendations implies that a viscosity of oil can include either 5/30 or 5/40 as long as it meets the VW spec

If synthetic that meets the applicable Volkswagen oil quality with viscosity grade SAE 5/40 or 5/30 is not available in your area,be sure to use a viscosity grade suitable for the climate,season and operating conditions that exist where the vehicle is used.Make sure the oil meets the quality standard listed.

 

[ruking]

Oh the horror of 5w30 diesel oils.

http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_LE_5W-30.aspx

http://www.mobil.co.uk/Shared-Files-LCW/mobil-delvac-1-le-5w30_eame_en.pdf

The European offerings (data) might be a tad to a LOT misleading. While almost every refiner (European markets) has a 5w30 VW 507.00 offering and probably multiple products: in the US markets, the offerings are STILL considerably more narrow, albeit "boutique" offerings. The per liter price is also from $12-25 (US converted) per. !!!

So for another example, Total, in the past aka ELF have a 2004/2005 posting saying the VW 507.00 specification was in effect @ that time. As you and I know, @ THAT time, the US markets probably haven't even heard of the VW 507. specifications, let alone have a single vendor who offered it. If I recall correctly, the latest and greatest VW specification @ that time was the VW 505.01 specification.

 

[tdi90hp]

Beating a dead horse maybe.....just a little.
1/ 5W30 is the only grade avail in NA with 507 spec.
2/ VW states over and over they require 507
3/ 5W40 NOT avail in NA with 507
4/ Conclusion.....run warranty acceptable oil(5W30 507) till you are out of warranty then run what you care to run....
Please please please dont try to go down the road that my new CR engine will be worn out sooner by running VW specified oil.....
These motors are well balanced, non oil burning, low revving on highway in sixth gear and why should they be any worse or wear out faster than ALH engines??
Canadian warranty says 100,000 kms of engine warranty....meaning I will do 6 oil changes at VW timed specced intervals and proper oil specification and by then maybe we will all have more UOAs on running 5w40 which seems like a logical move AFTER warranty runs out....
Nuff said.....

 

[MayorDJQ]

I did

Ok...then read this excellent summary of the entire post:

Beating a dead horse maybe.....just a little.
1/ 5W30 is the only grade avail in NA with 507 spec.
2/ VW states over and over they require 507
3/ 5W40 NOT avail in NA with 507
4/ Conclusion.....run warranty acceptable oil(5W30 507) till you are out of warranty then run what you care to run....
Please please please dont try to go down the road that my new CR engine will be worn out sooner by running VW specified oil.....
These motors are well balanced, non oil burning, low revving on highway in sixth gear and why should they be any worse or wear out faster than ALH engines??
Canadian warranty says 100,000 kms of engine warranty....meaning I will do 6 oil changes at VW timed specced intervals and proper oil specification and by then maybe we will all have more UOAs on running 5w40 which seems like a logical move AFTER warranty runs out....
Nuff said.....

 

[Scratcher]

Ok...then read this excellent summary of the entire post:

I did

 

[ruking]

Beating a dead horse maybe.....just a little.
1/ 5W30 is the only grade avail in NA with 507 spec.
2/ VW states over and over they require 507
3/ 5W40 NOT avail in NA with 507
4/ Conclusion.....run warranty acceptable oil(5W30 507) till you are out of warranty then run what you care to run....
Please please please dont try to go down the road that my new CR engine will be worn out sooner by running VW specified oil.....
These motors are well balanced, non oil burning, low revving on highway in sixth gear and why should they be any worse or wear out faster than ALH engines??
Canadian warranty says 100,000 kms of engine warranty....meaning I will do 6 oil changes at VW timed specced intervals and proper oil specification and by then maybe we will all have more UOAs on running 5w40 which seems like a logical move AFTER warranty runs out....
Nuff said.....

One thing that has really never been discussed is the 12 times GREATER (factorially) wear metals of the three lowest ALH engines vs the three lowest CBEA engines. on TDI UOA Database. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814

Another (nexus) thing that has never been linked are the PD camshaft wear issues whether or not 10,000 miles intervals and or LESS like 5,000 miles intervals are linked. There have literally been little to ZERO camshaft failings on engines running OVER 10,000 miles intervals, like 20,000 miles intervals.

 

[TooSlick]

Results I've seen indicate most of the CBEA engines are still wearing in (which can take 30k-50k miles). The few oil analyses on engines with > 30k miles indicate very low wear, although the wear "signature" is different than the older motors. The CBEA engines show higher levels of Al for example.

TS

 

[ruking]

Results I've seen indicate most of the CBEA engines are still wearing in (which can take 30k-50k miles). The few oil analyses on engines with > 30k miles indicate very low wear, although the wear "signature" is different than the older motors. The CBEA engines show higher levels of Al for example.

TS

Correct. Once upon a time older engines (like ALH's) were still wearing in aka ZERO to 60,000 miles also.

 

[Henrick]

Another (nexus) thing that has never been linked are the PD camshaft wear issues whether or not 10,000 miles intervals and or LESS like 5,000 miles intervals are linked. There have literally been little to ZERO camshaft failings on engines running OVER 10,000 miles intervals, like 20,000 miles intervals.

LOL. Join UK forums and do some reading. Almost all failed PD cams were on long-life service schedule going up to 18k miles as an OCI. Putting your head in the sand doesn't mean such thing doesn't happen

 

[ruking]

LOL. Join UK forums and do some reading. Almost all failed PD cams were on long-life service schedule going up to 18k miles as an OCI. Putting your head in the sand doesn't mean such thing doesn't happen

I have said this in other threads, but I have long thought a lot gets lost/jumboed in the translation between US and European markets. They are truly WAY different cars. So while I understand you to say there were a lot of incidents of PD camshaft issues in Europe, it really does not change the more limited experiences here in the US markets.

Here's a pretty easy (one) example. My 03 Jetta TDI was delivered in the US with .184 nozzles and a 5 speed manual transmission. A European (not sure about UK) model had:

1. bigger injectors .212 ?
2. 6 speed manual transmission
3. put out more power and torque
4. got better mpg (2)

For me, it is a no brainer which model I would have wanted given the choice of which there was... NOT !!??