Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[993er]

820 users viewin this thread right now.. Im guessing this website has had a huge spike in activity!

103 pages...ya think?

 

[El Dobro]

Huh? The Volt can't do fast charging. It's limited to 3.3 KW. You must be confusing it with something else

He's talking about the onboard ICE. When the battery's depleted or is put on hold, the ICE turns on, which turns the generator that puts juice back into the battery while your driving.

 

[charley654]

So if I am reading this right....the solution seems it will be a software update that may detune the engine making it less pollutant, less efficient, less torque.
So if your fuel efficiency/MPG drops that means you would have to burn more fuel to get to the same destination. More fuel burned means more pollution and resources wasted.
Am I wrong?
EPA wins, oil company wins, air quality wins, TDI owner loose.

 

[powerfool]

40K is not hard. The DSG is not difficult. The only time my 2011 saw a dealer was for the "free" services.

Oil+filter,
air filter
fuel filter
DSG

Set aside half a day, get the parts from ID parts as a 40K kit, and save $500+ while learning your car.

Yeah, that is what mine have been. I bought an extended warranty that came with three additional services, but they claimed that they were for the 5k intervals that VW didn't cover. I have been fighting with them to do a 30k, 40k, and 50k instead... and I got them to do a 30k. I know they wouldn't cover the DSG under the 40k, but I was at least hoping they would do my oil change and filters, etc.

Now, I will just handle it, I think.

 

[powerfool]

So if I am reading this right....the solution seems it will be a software update that may detune the engine making it less pollutant, less efficient, less torque.
So if your fuel efficiency/MPG drops that means you would have to burn more fuel to get to the same destination. More fuel burned means more pollution and resources wasted.
Am I wrong?
EPA wins, oil company wins, air quality wins, TDI owner loose.

This has been the case with most the regulatory hurdles that have been introduced. If it weren't for these emissions controls, we would probably be seeing 65+mpg without effort in these vehicles.

 

[ccbsecu]

My 335d makes 265hp/425ft lb @ 1750. Saturday we went on a 280 mile road trip going 75-100 and used 8 gallons of fuel for 36.25 mpg. Whats not to like? There is not any vehicle available for any price that can equal the power, economy, AND emissions legal performance of the 335d. At almost 90,000 miles there has been no cbu issues, probably because we dont use it for short city trips, do oil changes at 6K, and regular use of optilube to keep injectors clean.

If I could have a E93 335d here in the states....the things I'd do to that car

I have a E93 M3 that only makes 300 ft lb....but north of 450 hp with tunes and such...

I also have a Treg TDi with a tune....putting down close to 600 lb ft...

 

[oilhammer]

Then you should be driving a Prius! Better mpgs, especially city, plus fewer repairs. Maybe electric after they extend the range at an affordable price.

I drive 100 miles a day, at 80+ MPH usually, 95% highway. No Prius is going to tag 50 MPG, and even if it could, it would not last the half million miles my Golf has, nor would it be able to tow like my Golf can, and I couldn't even FIT in a Prius comfortably let alone stand to drive one. I know, because I have serviced plenty of them and have driven plenty of them. Our shop has one. It has had its battery stack rebuilt twice, both water pumps replaced twice, several wheel bearings, and the HVAC control head replaced.... all before 200k miles. It is a good car. It is not a perfect car.

 

[n1acguy]

I can't imagine any legal scenario in which energy efficiency tax credits granted to early purchasers of TDIs would have to be repaid to the government by owners. They have no responsibility whatsoever for the EPA violations.
Now, requiring Volkswagen to reimburse the U.S. government for the cost of those tax credits is another thing entirely, and a very likely one since Volkswagen aggressively promoted the tax incentives in their early marketing campaigns. That probably constitutes fraud against the U.S. government, if not the consumer also.

The IRS won't have anything to do with this however it ends up.
Is there a doomsday scenario that hasn't been thought of yet?

 

[993er]

I have a slight feeling it's all about politics and money. It always is with the EPA. While they have improved quality of life for the most part for the US, it isn't a secret that they are all about that cash money. I think this is just an in for them to try and make a few bucks off a big company.

If they are so concerned about the quality of life, then they should do so right across the board...no exceptions...tractor trailers, city buses, etc.

Reminds me of the ban on weed killers in my area, but golf courses are exempt.

 

[Shife]

I have a new headliner waiting at the dealer for me. I will be modifying one of my pistol safes to lock the obd2 connector in. Just remove the screws holding it to the knee brace and lock the connector in the case with a slot for the cord to pass through.

Until I know what the "fix" is, I don't want them plugging into my obd2 port.

 

[ccbsecu]

So I'm due for my $800 40k service. Think I should hold on and see how things shake out or does it not make a difference?

My understanding - the dealers are not doing anything yet...but you can also refuse and ECU work.

 

[Ramairetransam]

I have a new headliner waiting at the dealer for me. I will be modifying one of my pistol safes to lock the obd2 connector in. Just remove the screws holding it to the knee brace and lock the connector in the case with a slot for the cord to pass through.

Until I know what the "fix" is, I don't want them plugging into my obd2 port.

im with you on that .

 

[Aquaticmind]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Every time the EPA and others have been credited with improvements, those improvements had already begun being implemented before EPA action. DDT, ozone, etc... they all were improving before EPA action. You cannot attribute those things to the EPA. That is a fallacy.

Correlation does not equal causation, you are correct, but cause and effect relationships are correlated. You must be in complete denial if the you don't think the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act have improved the air and water quality in this country significantly.

Since the clean water act went into effect points source pollution has significantly declined and is the legal underpinning for clean water enforcement action against illegal dumping.

The Clean Air Act and it's new source review policy is the mechanism behind installing scrubbers on smoke stacks, reducing Hg and other metals, particulates in power plant emission, reducing smog and acid rain.

Your assertions that improvement in air and water quality can't be attributed to the EPA is completely without merit.

 

[maybe368]

If they are so concerned about the quality of life, then they should do so right across the board...no exceptions...tractor trailers, city buses, etc.

Reminds me of the ban on weed killers in my area, but golf courses are exempt.

Tell that to corporate lobbyists and the politicians that they buy...Mark

 

[totitan]

If I could have a E93 335d here in the states....the things I'd do to that car
I have a E93 M3 that only makes 300 ft lb....but north of 450 hp with tunes and such...
I also have a Treg TDi with a tune....putting down close to 600 lb ft...

Ive done nothing to mine except get rid of the run flats. Even in stock tune the ability of the car to effortlessly gain speed is just mesmerizing, even after owning it for three years.

 

[sandydeb]

Handing out 'electric car' barf bags

"China presently produces more than 95% of all rare earth materials that are vital in the creation of a big variety of electronic technologies including lithium car batteries.... dysprosium (99 percent) and neodymium (95 percent). The motor of a Prius requires about 3 pounds of the latter...
While other countries, including the U.S., have significant amounts of these, China’s low-cost labor and lax environmental restrictions has afforded it a big advantage in this mining-intensive industry."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...t-put-an-electronics-stranglehold-on-america/
An all time classic....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U

 

[vwUMO]

I have a new headliner waiting at the dealer for me. I will be modifying one of my pistol safes to lock the obd2 connector in. Just remove the screws holding it to the knee brace and lock the connector in the case with a slot for the cord to pass through.

Until I know what the "fix" is, I don't want them plugging into my obd2 port.

Awesome! maybe that combined with a "no trespassing" sign by the dead pedal too

 

[Borsig]

I have a new headliner waiting at the dealer for me. I will be modifying one of my pistol safes to lock the obd2 connector in. Just remove the screws holding it to the knee brace and lock the connector in the case with a slot for the cord to pass through.

Until I know what the "fix" is, I don't want them plugging into my obd2 port.

Oh I LIKE this idea.

 

[hla44]

I don't post here much at all, but I lurk frequently. I love my TDI. It's my third. I bought the first to replace a Honda Civic hybrid. It was a dream come true. Awesome fuel economy, all the bells and whistles, good for the environment, and so much fun to drive. Since that first TDI, we have bought a GTI, and two more TDIs, (the first met an untimely death, totalled). I love the VW brand, and their cars. But environmental concerns were most definitely at the top for me. I am deeply disappointed.

Two class action suits have been filed already.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho....L.P.-Files-Class-Action-Lawsuit#.VgBDwN9Viko

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ational-Lawsuit-Volkswagen-Group#.VgBDzN9Viko

 

[Aquaticmind]

So if I am reading this right....the solution seems it will be a software update that may detune the engine making it less pollutant, less efficient, less torque.
So if your fuel efficiency/MPG drops that means you would have to burn more fuel to get to the same destination. More fuel burned means more pollution and resources wasted.
Am I wrong?
EPA wins, oil company wins, air quality wins, TDI owner loose.

Reducing internal combustion temps will reduce NOx but also reduce power output. NOx and CO2 are measured in g/mi so the update will reduce the NOx per mile and (probably) increase the CO2 per mile. How much is yet to be seen.

 

[Roishe Cheng]

Knowing the bottom is still some time out....what is the point you'd buy..

I'll tell you this much. Our quant and blackbox groups have been very busy all weekend and this morning. Means a new algorithm is being put into our trading system so positions can be taken based on this and the upcoming wider net of investigations -- especially when I see some of the head traders that deal with FX/Euro exchanges having some long discussions with the folks that manage the US and international manufacturing/CPG areas.

"* VW shares plunge more than 20 pct, biggest one-day fall

* U.S. agency EPA says to widen probe to other carmakers

* Germany also to investigate carmakers' emissions data

* Daimler, BMW say not affected by U.S. emissions probe (Adds EPA widening probe, European Commission and VW labour head comments, updates shares)"

At 1530 GMT, VW shares were down 18.8 percent at 131.8 euros, after hitting a three-year low of 125.4 euros. Shares in Porsche SE, a holding company which controls 51 percent of VW's common stock, also plunged around 20 percent, while the European autos index was down 3.9 percent.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/21/usa-volkswagen-idINL5N11R0TU20150921

 

[powerfool]

Correlation does not equal causation, you are correct, but cause and effect relationships are correlated. You must be in complete denial if the you don't think the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act have improved the air and water quality in this country significantly.

Since the clean water act went into effect points source pollution has significantly declined and is the legal underpinning for clean water enforcement action against illegal dumping.

The Clean Air Act and it's new source review policy is the mechanism behind installing scrubbers on smoke stacks, reducing Hg and other metals, particulates in power plant emission, reducing smog and acid rain.

Your assertions that improvement in air and water quality can't be attributed to the EPA is completely without merit.

We're just going to disagree about this. Illegal dumping still happens with regularity despite it being illegal. Market pressures are greater than the EPA, too. People want a cleaner environment companies will capitalize on it wherever it makes sense. Some will lie and some of those will get caught (it seems). I guess the EPA regulations didn't prevent that, either.

 

[r11]

There is NOTHING that is available ATM to fix the "issue". No SW or hardware fix. So do bring in your cars for regularly scheduled services. Do insist on NOT performing ANY flashes to the ECU.

The VW engs that designed the "cheat" better start practicing picking up slippery/wet soap bars from shower floors. Aim for .5 seconds at most.

 

[Borsig]

I don't post here much at all, but I lurk frequently. I love my TDI. It's my third. I bought the first to replace a Honda Civic hybrid. It was a dream come true. Awesome fuel economy, all the bells and whistles, good for the environment, and so much fun to drive. Since that first TDI, we have bought a GTI, and two more TDIs, (the first met an untimely death, totalled). I love the VW brand, and their cars. But environmental concerns were most definitely at the top for me. I am deeply disappointed.

Two class action suits have been filed already.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho....L.P.-Files-Class-Action-Lawsuit#.VgBDwN9Viko

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ational-Lawsuit-Volkswagen-Group#.VgBDzN9Viko

I dont understand how multiple class actions for the same thing work.

 

[TornadoRed]

If you go to the TDI Club home page, there is a button to click to make a contribution via PayPal. This would be a good time to send a few dollars to Fred, to thank him for running this website.

 

[Coorsleftfield]

Any thoughts on just buying a used junkyard ECU for the car and owning 2. one with the "update" and one original ?

 

[BeetleGo]

Can someone show a chart that shows where emission are vs where they should be on the

I think a lot of people would like to actually see what 10-40 times dirtier looks like compared to what Volkswagen said their TDI's produced.

I'm thinking a chart that shows where the TDI has been (since 1996?), and where they screwed up. For example, I have a 2005 and it was compliant, so what was required and what I got was the same. When 2009 came around, how much cleaner did the exhaust need to become and what was the actual exhaust they lied about? Basically, what is 10-40 times dirtier mean? Was it a little difference, or really big?

Anybody?

 

[rhino4evr]

I just feel absolutely awful about this. I very much respect the environment, and I think the EPA is doing important work. I've always said the TDI seemed too good to be true. Awesome MPG, great performance, and unique in it's class and price range.

I always wondered why I was getting way better MPG then what the EPA's sticker said. It's been a great car so far, and now I just feel uncomfortable about it.

Really hope VW can "fix" this.

 

[Alan Drake]

A little interesting point, in my state (the great COMMON wealth of Mass) if a vehicle fails inspection the insurance is invalid until fixed. Now I heard such on a radio talk program, so who knows - that's similar to the internet.

So had vehicle inspected which gives me a year now.

Second point, has anyone done a study (real one) that correlates millage to pollutant output? A little more pollutants. 2%. but mileage goes up 30% ?

 

[sdeck]

Huh? The Volt can't do fast charging. It's limited to 3.3 KW. You must be confusing it with something else

fast-charging with unleaded gasoline