Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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gnuworldorder

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Pennsylvania doesn't do emissions testing anyway, wonder if that will
effect me. I just did the registration 2 weeks ago, so I am good for
another year.
i see you are from pittsburgh so ill ask you how this works since this is my first tdi. do they just go "oh thats a diesel, im not even going to check it"? what would happen if i took it in without the update, or with a stage 2?
 

hudsonian

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Location
Calgary, AB
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2013 Passat Highline TDI
So I have just called the Canadian VW Customer Care line (1800 822 8987), after waiting a very long time I got to speak to an advisor and I was given the standard "we are working with the relevant regulators bla bla" answer.

I then asked her if there was a sale hold in Canada as the TDi option is no longer on their web site. She had to put me on hold again while she spoke to her manager. She then informed me there is NO stop sale in Canada at the moment.

Use this information as you need.


UPDATE, Canada is now officially on a sales hold

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...s-after-us-emissions-scandal/article26452624/

 

Borsig

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VW wont buy anything back. You will get a $200 gift card.

Think that's a joke? It isnt. The government isnt going to help you, class action lawyers are in it for THEIR cut.

Anything else is grandeur. You'll take the fix (or like me, won't accept a detune) and you'll be given a $50-200 apology gift card, and be sent on your way.

And there wont be a thing you can do about it, thats profitable, or worth the effort.
 

totitan

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instead of reaching a bit to get a BMW 328d because it was cheaper and I don't trust BMW...
My 335d makes 265hp/425ft lb @ 1750. Saturday we went on a 280 mile road trip going 75-100 and used 8 gallons of fuel for 36.25 mpg. Whats not to like? There is not any vehicle available for any price that can equal the power, economy, AND emissions legal performance of the 335d. At almost 90,000 miles there has been no cbu issues, probably because we dont use it for short city trips, do oil changes at 6K, and regular use of optilube to keep injectors clean.
 

n1acguy

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We can be optimistic and hope that such a thing was not intentional. For instance, in a testing situation, you certainly would want to fully test that all of the systems are functioning properly; that doesn't necessarily mean it would always operate with all of the systems running as they would in a test. So, at best, it is simply a miscommunication of how the vehicles operate. At worst, it was fully intentional and the allegations are valid. We'll see, I guess.
I'm sure more will be revealed. We know the accusation that something was hidden is true, but I haven't seen any details that aren't pretty vague.
For all we know so far, the vehicle is programmed to lock out a regen while undergoing a test and that's what they are admitting to. I would think it would have to in order to provide any consistency in testing environments.
The 10 to 40 times claim the EPA is making is very vague.
If the car is continually putting out levels that are that much higher, then I'd say VW has a real problem of the magnitude some are making this out to be.
I haven't seen any information other than these vague claims so far
 

powerfool

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oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
***? How is diesel complex?
Have you not looked under the hood of one? Done any major service work on one? The new 2009+ CR TDIs are many times more complex than the engines they replaced. And it is all packed into the same real estate, making them more difficult and more labor intensive to service. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't NEED major work, but they all too often do.
 

NYC-TDI

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TDI Free and Loving It
What I can't stand is people bashing VW for cheating when the cheating actually helped us all get better mpgs.
Immoral behavior is not acceptable just because one derives a personal benefit from it.

"What I can't stand is all the people bashing slavery when it actually benefited my family economically."

Are you comfortable with that statement? (I hope not!) Admittedly there is a large degree of difference between the two but both statements use the same false logic and moral relevancy.

Please understand I am not picking on you personally, I am simply pointing out the obvious.
 

powerfool

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[QUOTE

Yep... The manufacturing of batteries for these cars produces more toxic
waste, per battery, than anything in the road can produce in a year. This
is toxic chemical waste, per battery. Then it being plugged into an outlet,
in a house that is powered by coal fired a plant, that produces fly-ash, and
other toxins into the atmosphere.
The `09 + are still clean, as far as soot and ash go... Try and say
that about the semi, when you're stuck behind it going up a hill...
I plug my car into my solar powered outlet? When the time comes, the battery will be recycled.
My diesel uses renewable fuel that most likely is cleaner than todays clean diesel.
This is about as clean as one can get.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the deforestation and other items related to procurement of lithium.

It is like all of these restrictions going in for wood burning stoves for home heating. Yes, it is burning a tree which releases CO2... but if you replant and are responsible in how you procure wood, it is about as renewable as you can get for home heating with the only exception being avoiding the need to heat your home or heat it as much.
 

Norm0770

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Humans sure are a pathetic bunch eh? Fat laden foods, sugar enhanced cakes pastries and soda... cigarettes? artificial sweeteners? rusty water pipes? chemically enhanced "food" Abuse of animals.. destruction of forests and environments for more animal grazing? Diabetes? Cancer?

Do any of these concern you? OMG NOOOOOO NOT NOX POLLUTION LEVELS that are a product of a regulatory agency who has nothing better to do that to create more impossible standards to justify having a place to go to work in the morning. Hypocrites every one of them

Making standards for companies to follow so impossibly high is like telling a 450 pound person to lose 300 pounds. Wishful thinking and impossible to do without a drastic change in lifestyle/performance etc..

California and the USA hate diesels... always have and always will. As far as intelligence goes, the USA would be the last place I would EVER look for anything that makes sense or is valid.
The standards aren't impossible to meet. The BMW X5 in the testing with the VWs passed the NOx standard in all situations. VW didn't want to spend the extra money to add the additional equipment to get the 2.0 to pass.
 

mac5155

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i see you are from pittsburgh so ill ask you how this works since this is my first tdi. do they just go "oh thats a diesel, im not even going to check it"? what would happen if i took it in without the update, or with a stage 2?
A thorough shop should do a visual inspection that your emission system has not been tampered. Any mom-and-pop shop is just going to inspect it like a gasser - remove a front and rear wheel, check your lights, horn, wipers, brakes, steering play, etc. and then put a sticker on it.

If you need a reputable TDI shop in the area, PM me.
 

ccbsecu

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It's easier to clean up pollution from a stationary factory or power station than from something that is mobile. New CO2 regs will help with those emission but Hg and other pollutants will still be there.

Spoken like a true Ashevillian...;)

JK - I am also a lifelong Asheville resident until recently...
 

powerfool

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Have you not looked under the hood of one? Done any major service work on one? The new 2009+ CR TDIs are many times more complex than the engines they replaced. And it is all packed into the same real estate, making them more difficult and more labor intensive to service. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't NEED major work, but they all too often do.
Gasoline engines on their face are more complex than diesel, then you add most of the same things, or items that assist in similar ways, that you have to tack on to a diesel and you get a similar outcome. Look at the TSI gasoline engines... you are getting similar.

Now, take the gasoline engine and add an electric motor, a bunch of batteries, whatever components to deal with multiple power sources based on the technology, and you get something FAR more complex.

That is the point, comparing the complexity of a diesel engine to a hybrid gasoline-electric engine... that's what the point is. A diesel engine is not anywhere near as complex as that.
 

maybe368

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Humans sure are a pathetic bunch eh? Fat laden foods, sugar enhanced cakes pastries and soda... cigarettes? artificial sweeteners? rusty water pipes? chemically enhanced "food" Abuse of animals.. destruction of forests and environments for more animal grazing? Diabetes? Cancer?

Do any of these concern you?

All of that stuff concerns me, but you are right in your point, we should be concerned about all of that, including nox. It is time for the masses to realize this, before it is too late for your grand kids (I have none, but I am worried for everyone else's)...Mark
 

imurrx

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Does that mean my 2011 Golf will pass MA inspection if I just avoid the software "fix"? -- Assuming I'm not giving it any tunes? -- And assuming MA doesn't start acting like CA?
The mechanic that does the testing told me that the system could potentially stop the emmision test process if something with the VIN is denied by the states system.

I guess it could potentially could do that.

I'm not an expert nor I did not stay at a Holiday Inn. So please take this with a grain of salt.
 

Aquaticmind

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Do any of these concern you? OMG NOOOOOO NOT NOX POLLUTION LEVELS that are a product of a regulatory agency who has nothing better to do that to create more impossible standards to justify having a place to go to work in the morning. Hypocrites every one of them
Argh. You're really got blame this issue on the EPA. The water and air are cleaner post EPA than before it. Deaths from chronic air pollution are down. You can't have a strong economy with out clean water and healthy people. Heaven forbid the EPA tries make the country a clean, better place to live so your children don't have chronic asthma and spend their days weezing.
 

Conor7seven

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IL
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So I'm due for my $800 40k service. Think I should hold on and see how things shake out or does it not make a difference?
 

lynnejohn

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CT
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2010 Jetta TDI
Seeing everyone else is throwing around wild idea's, how about a simply solution that lets everybody win(especially the current TDI owners stuck in the middle of this.)

1) VW pays some exorbitant fine for cheating on NOx emissions.
2) The EPA grandfathers the effected used vehicles (new vehicles must meet NOx specifications.)

Wins:
1) The EPA gets there moment in glory for catching cheaters.
2) Current TDI owners do not have to worry about the large investment they have in their car.
3) The federal government gets a nice chunk of money in the general fund which they will then immediately spend.
4) VW gets to move on from this fiasco without going bankrupt from every lawyer in the US suing them because the software 'fix' altered the cars.

Now I wounder how much longer this thread will go...
 

powerfool

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Then you should be driving a Prius! Better mpgs, especially city, plus fewer repairs. Maybe electric after they extend the range at an affordable price.
Please, a Prius is junk. They drive like they are choking constantly and they really do not get that good of fuel economy for highway driving compared to a regular gasoline engine (it may be about a 3 mpg increase when you objectively compare it to something on par with it). Sure, in stop/go traffic, it gets great fuel economy, so it comes down to your driving habits and requirements. Plus, fewer repairs? Prius's and other Toyota hybrids have costly repairs that occur (and I am not talking about batteries). The entire complexity of the braking system balancing between regenerative braking and mechanical/hydraulic braking... you don't want to be a car where that fails... it goes from normal operation to the slightest tap of your brake pedal being like pulling your parking brake to 100%. In the situations where folks have realized it has happened, at least they were only travelling at about 15 mph and not 40+ mph. And that is a several thousand dollar repair.
 

powerfool

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Argh. You're really got blame this issue on the EPA. The water and air are cleaner post EPA than before it. Deaths from chronic air pollution are down. You can't have a strong economy with out clean water and healthy people. Heaven forbid the EPA tries make the country a clean, better place to live so your children don't have chronic asthma and spend their days weezing.
Correlation does not equal causation.

Every time the EPA and others have been credited with improvements, those improvements had already begun being implemented before EPA action. DDT, ozone, etc... they all were improving before EPA action. You cannot attribute those things to the EPA. That is a fallacy.
 

Borsig

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Heres a real question.

If this does severely negatively effect our cars in mpg and performance, is the only recourse we have, within reason, class action?

I cant see individuals having the financial capital to fight vw in a one on one fight and come out ahead.

I'd be happy if they just left me alone and honored my warranty, but we all know the epa won't be satisfied with that solution.
 

powerfool

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So I'm due for my $800 40k service. Think I should hold on and see how things shake out or does it not make a difference?
Yeah, I am on the fence related to this myself. I was already considering doing my 40k service myself. I may go ahead and do it and wait it out. I just had my 30k done a couple of weeks ago.
 

Tony45

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Dyno effect

Wow! I'm just reading this news now. Forgive my ignorance (I live in an non-emissions area), how would a car "know" it was being tested?
Data from wheel speed sensors (and ABS), most likely. If all four wheels aren't behaving similarly, the vehicle knows that it is on a dyno and most likely being tested.
 

Borsig

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Yeah, I am on the fence related to this myself. I was already considering doing my 40k service myself. I may go ahead and do it and wait it out. I just had my 30k done a couple of weeks ago.

40K is not hard. The DSG is not difficult. The only time my 2011 saw a dealer was for the "free" services.

Oil+filter,
air filter
fuel filter
DSG

Set aside half a day, get the parts from ID parts as a 40K kit, and save $500+ while learning your car.
 

powerfool

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Heres a real question.

If this does severely negatively effect our cars in mpg and performance, is the only recourse we have, within reason, class action?

I cant see individuals having the financial capital to fight vw in a one on one fight and come out ahead.

I'd be happy if they just left me alone and honored my warranty, but we all know the epa won't be satisfied with that solution.
Why couldn't individuals handle it? Class action lawsuits are not to the benefit of individuals, they are to the benefit of the courts so they don't have piles of lawsuits to deal with and to the parties being sued because they only have to be a defendant in one suit. Plus, the lawyers all take a huge cut.

If individuals just file suits themselves without attorneys, or with attorneys that are looking to take a huge chunk, it would be costly for VW just to acknowledge the lawsuits. That alone would nearly break them or any other defendant instead of a class action lawsuit. And you get a better chance of getting more funds.
 
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