Why You Must Supervise/avoid The Dealer!

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Good Evening,

Please look at this:


This is the oil left in my Jetta by the Burnsville Volkswagen Service Department that is EXTRA. I had to drain this oil from the car to get the oil level equal to the full mark (indented circle above the cross-hatch area). Before I did this the oil was half way up the cable dipstick between the extra plastic ball and the main bottom part.

I asked when I entered the service department if they use the gold bottle for the oil, and the guy said, "This ain't Jiffy-Lube, we use the right stuff". I said okay. I asked if I could watch them, he said no. So I handed over the keys and went walking around the lot. After about 40 min I went back into the service area and looked through the little glass window in the door...I could see my car. It was 3 bays over. The car was on the ground and the tech (I use that term loosely) was trying multiple sockets to get the oil filter cover off. I watched him take it out and put the new, clean filter in. I did NOT see him replace the rubber o-ring on the filter cap. I asked the service manager, who was right there, if she could go ask why he did not do this. After a few minutes she came in and said that he was certain he did, but he would double check. I watched him and he did replace it this time...not sure where he got the o-ring. I then watched him put gold Castrol oil bottles in the engine, but did not see how many because as he started a black wagon was going up in the bay closest to me.

So they took the car and washed it and I left. When I got home I waited 10 min and checked the oil. WOW I thought and pulled over to the garage and put her up on jack stands. The picture is what I got after leveling out the stick (putting some back in). I did drive about 20 miles like this, mostly highway. I HOPE it did not do any harm.

I will never take my car back in for service to any dealer...warranty or not I will change my own oil and do my own services like I have done on every other vehicle I have ever owned. I left a voice mail with the service manager to inform her of what I found and am expecting a phone call tomorrow. I am going to ask for 10L of oil and two filters as compensation. We will see if I am successful. I did order a set of 4ea of the plastic trunk organizers for $22 that are due in on WED.

I thought this deserved its own post...not burried as post 254 :rolleyes:
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
ANd these guys are FACTORY TRAINED, dear god ! Anyone on this forum doesn't have a problem changing the oil,so does that mean we can work at a dealer.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta



"Hey, Mary Lou, did you see that guy this morning who said he needed to supervise the oil change on his car? Can you believe the audacity!" :eek:
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
I know how dare our customers not TRUST us!
 

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
I have had enough experience with dealerships...14 total vehicle purchases from dealers...9 new including the TDI. But the service is free...been doing lots of target shooting, close on a house at the end of March when I move to VA...a free oil change sounded good. Not any more. This is proof for all the new TDI owners like myself. My Grandfather said to keep an eye on my seals...an EXTRA Liter I just picked up on this...THEY GAVE ME THE PROOF!!!

 
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JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
Yup the ALH takes 4.4 , when the wife got her car she would take it to dealer for service under warranty,and she noticed the same thing,so being so organized she went back through all her receipts and found 4 the same and asked for a free oil change and got it
 

bustNfuel

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
Sold: 13 Passat SEL TDI
You know, after reading more and more of these service department experiences, I am going to forego the 'free/warranty' oil changes, even though I thought that was a pretty slick deal. I found out them after I bought my Jetta so I was prepared to do them myself anyway.

I have a device called a "SuckUP" that I use on my boat. You pump it to build a vaccuum, and suck the used oil out via the dipstick tube. Over the years I have always performed my own maintenance unless it required specialized tools (alignments,etc). Heck back in High School I had a 1970 1/2 Camaro Z28. Over the 12 years I owned it I rebuilt pretty much everything on it from the steering box, engine, clutch/transmission, rear axle, etc. So changing oil, filters, brakes, etc is nothing.

I'm getting lazier as I get older (actually, not enough time to mess around with details like oil changes with a family now!). But I don't want to see an oily mess or worry about incorrect oil, overfilled crankcase, etc.
 

elester12

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Location
Washington DC
TDI
2010 TDI
How many miles were driven with that oil in the car? It's amazing how black the oil gets in such short time. I love diesel engines :)
 

CRTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
Sorry to hear about your recent stealership experience. When will VW get their customer support act together? My first new car was an '84 Rabbit GTI. Great car but the dealer support was the worst. Didn't give VW a second chance until I recently bought the TDI for the wife (her first new car also). I haven't visited my local dealer service department yet, but when I do I'm prepared to yank it out of there asap at the first inkling of incompetence.

I Noticed on your service invoice that it appears the rear brake pads are wearing faster than the fronts. On previous cars that I have owned the fronts always wore faster than the rears. Am I missing something here? New brake system design/function or just written up incorrectly? I also see a water separator drain cleaning service. I assume there is a separator in the fuel system. Does anybody know where is it located? What's involved in servicing it? Does it also have a valve to drain off any water accumulation? Sorry for all of the questions my previous cars never had any hi-tech systems or a water separator which I think is a good idea, especially if there is a provision for draining off any possible water accumulation.
Thanks,
 

buckeye96

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta ?
CRTDI said:
I Noticed on your service invoice that it appears the rear brake pads are wearing faster than the fronts. On previous cars that I have owned the fronts always wore faster than the rears. Am I missing something here? New brake system design/function or just written up incorrectly? I also see a water separator drain cleaning service. I assume there is a separator in the fuel system. Does anybody know where is it located? What's involved in servicing it? Does it also have a valve to drain off any water accumulation? Sorry for all of the questions my previous cars never had any hi-tech systems or a water separator which I think is a good idea, especially if there is a provision for draining off any possible water accumulation.
Thanks,
1) Rears wear a lot faster than the fronts. A lot. I got about 30k miles out of mine. Do a search and you will find alot of the technical reasons for the rears wearing faster.

2) As far as I know there is no water separator for the fuel system. At least there was none for the PDs, even though the service manual said there was one.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The problem is many dealers, not just Volkswagen, employ 'lube jockeys' for seemingly simple services like a 10k service. Other than better benefits, they are largely not much better than a quickie lube tech. Once in a while a 'real' technician will do a service like that, but usually those guys get stuck doing warranty work and major stuff. Been there, done that.

Some dealerships will proudly display their technicians' certifications on the wall somewhere, ask for the guy that has been there a while and has all his VW certs, that way you can at least avoid the lube jockey morons. It is nice when people build a one-on-one relationship with the technician, I know I enjoy that. It builds trust, and eventually you have a relationship that works well. :)
 

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
I had that relationship with my Ford dealer who serviced the warranty issues (many) on my 08 F350 PSD. I also had a good setup with th elocal Chevy dealer when my wife and I had 06 2500HDs (gas was cheap!). But VW, at least this dealer, has put a foul taste in my mouth...you have got to be an idiot to just start pouring oil and not know how much the engine calls for. I am expecting my phone to ring within a few hours.
 

TDIMOFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Location
Playa del Rey
TDI
2009 Jstta TDI
Think it might be possible that they put the excess oil in BECAUSE you requested to watch them like a hawk?
It wouldn't suprise me.
Next time check your oil BEFORE leaving the dealership. That way you can demonstrate to the manager and ALL of the customers who are waiting around how bad their service is.
What amazes me is how little pride these guys take in their work.
TDIMOFO
 

FowVay

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2000
Location
Georgia
TDI
2009 Jetta returned to der Führer
I notice they checked your power steering hoses. What kind of hoses do we have on these electric steering systems? That maintenance invoice sure does make the oil change procedure look complicated.

I rest well at night knowing such competent and highly trained individuals are taking care of my car for me (that's sarcasm guys!!!)
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Keep your filthy fingers off my car

CMB could easily have been the latest "dealer didn't refill my crankcase during oil change" thread. We haven't had that for a week or two...

Over-fill, under-fill, what's the diff! ;)
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
New to VW diesel...I've not even opened the Mobil 507 oil I purchased.
Curious. Is the oil in these jars the normal color?
 

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
CJ-4 oil meets the new emission requirements, but all diesel oil does the same thing. Diesels produce a lot of soot and its the oil's job to catch it. Be worried if you drive 5 minutes and your oil looks clean. Now, if you are under 500 miles on one of these cars your oil may look semi-clear but that will not last. That oil, if they drained all the old oil out (they left the oil below the oil filter...not bad but did not reduce new oil to accomodate it) it would still look that black after 20 miles. When you hit 10,000 milea and YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL, once you have your dipstick right, start it. Let it run about 2-3 minutes, turn it off. Look at the stick...its like cleaning the house with toddlers running around...hopeless :)
 

bombero

Veteran Member
Joined
May 14, 2006
Location
The Lone Star State
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I take my own oil/filter to a local oil change place, but I stand right outside the bay and watch them while they do it. They don't seem to mind. They even showed me where a couple of screws were missing in the skid cover from before (when it was done by the dealer).
 

rcracer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Location
chapel perilous
TDI
2015 MK7 GTI S 6MT, Previous: 2012 Golf DSG w/ Tech Pkg
elester12 said:
How many miles were driven with that oil in the car? It's amazing how black the oil gets in such short time. I love diesel engines :)
i was pleasantly surprised how the M1 TDT (hush!) remains fairly non-dark for quite sum time :eek:
_
 

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
UPDATE

I just spoke to the service manager. She said she will be there tomorrow when I come in and we will talk. She is aware that 5L were charged against the car and is going to do the research between now and tomorrow. I will let you know the outcome.
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
oilhammer said:
The problem is many dealers, not just Volkswagen, employ 'lube jockeys' for seemingly simple services like a 10k service. Other than better benefits, they are largely not much better than a quickie lube tech. Once in a while a 'real' technician will do a service like that, but usually those guys get stuck doing warranty work and major stuff. Been there, done that.
So who handles the timing belts? the inbetweeners?...those 'lube jockeys' who haven't yet completed their vw training?

When (notice I didn't say if) the botched timing belt jobs come back, are they then given to the certified vw technicians?

To the OP: get the service manager to admit in writing that they overfilled the oil. You need to come away from this with as much documentation of their botched service job as possible. If they resist, take it to vwoa.
 
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El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
dieselfueler said:
BRM's do have a water separator in the fuel filter.
Some, not all. My '06 didn't have the water seperator.
 

Windjammer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Cinti, OH
TDI
MK4 & Mk5
CMB430 said:
UPDATE

I just spoke to the service manager. She said she will be there tomorrow when I come in and we will talk. She is aware that 5L were charged against the car and is going to do the research between now and tomorrow. I will let you know the outcome.
As I read through your invoice I had to chuckle a little bit. When you go back in, ask the tech if there was any water when he drained the separator & what was the condition of the power steering lines & hoses. That ought to be good for a laugh.
 

CMB430

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Location
HQ of "get nothing done"
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
tditom, you are correct to look at it from a name to name perspective. However, the oil technology is equal to that of Shell, Motorcraft, AC Delco and others. The added soot retention responsibility of the oil has grown on the CR engines with DPFs or other emission equipment.

I do stand corrected that only 507.00 oil should be used in the CR 2.0L TDI, but that it functions the same (soot retention) as CJ-4 diesel engine oil.
 

mtrevelino

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
None at this time
Regardless if the car takes 4.1, 4.4, or 4.7 quarts (or litres) of oil, the dealer will charge you for the full 5 bottles. If they were smart and did proper oil changes, they would be able to make 100-percent profit on a oil change in approximately 9 TDI's (all of those saved 1/2 bottles of oil).
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
i don't see how the need for soot retention has gone up with the modern engines. engine oil for diesels has always needed to suspend soot. If anything I think there would be a bit less soot in modern diesels, due to piezo injectors ability to control the combustion process more precisely.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
mtrevelino said:
Regardless if the car takes 4.1, 4.4, or 4.7 quarts (or litres) of oil, the dealer will charge you for the full 5 bottles. If they were smart and did proper oil changes, they would be able to make 100-percent profit on a oil change in approximately 9 TDI's (all of those saved 1/2 bottles of oil).
of course the right thing for them to do would be to give you the half full bottle of oil that you paid for. you could use it if any top-off was needed during the OCI. this would also allow you to inspect the bottle for the proper oil specs.
 
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