Who’s going to Tesla after their current TDI?

gulfcoastguy

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Historically that is not the case. Due to supply chain issues people can sell their gas guzzler, maybe at a loss, but they also have to pay through the nose for any replacement.
 

dhangejr

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With the insane EV demand these oil prices are creating, Giga Texas and the VW EV plant in Chattanooga can't ramp up fast enough. Even if oil prices don't stay this elevated for long, the damage to ICEVs has been done.

With the insane EV demand these oil prices are creating, Giga Texas and the VW EV plant in Chattanooga can't ramp up fast enough. Even if oil prices don't stay this elevated for long, the damage to ICEVs has been done.

Hmmmm that don’t seem like a racket or Ponzi scam. Nope just good old fashioned honest busisness. Yea that’s it just lucky timing…does anyone remember when oil was 0$ a barrel in 2020? Or was I the only peasant who bought some stock then ?
 
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dhangejr

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Historically that is not the case. Due to supply chain issues people can sell their gas guzzler, maybe at a loss, but they also have to pay through the nose for any replacement.
No way the car market is hot like the housing market. Everyone os trade up dealers were paying on fair market prices. Just lien the house market. Lost doe 500 sells for 550 3 days on market oh cash also.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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With the insane EV demand these oil prices are creating, Giga Texas and the VW EV plant in Chattanooga can't ramp up fast enough. Even if oil prices don't stay this elevated for long, the damage to ICEVs has been done.
I'm sure you're aware of how many times in the past 40 years people have predicted the death of high fuel consumption vehicles, starting in 1973. And look around you at what people are driving. Yes, some people are jumping to EVs now. And when prices fall, they'll jump back to pickups and SUVs just like they've done in the past.
 

turbobrick240

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I'm sure you're aware of how many times in the past 40 years people have predicted the death of high fuel consumption vehicles, starting in 1973. And look around you at what people are driving. Yes, some people are jumping to EVs now. And when prices fall, they'll jump back to pickups and SUVs just like they've done in the past.
It's true that consumers have displayed short memory in the past re high oil prices. The big difference here is that many were already considering electric vehicle purchases prior to this spike. The duration of this spike will come into play undoubtedly. My prediction is that half of new car sales in the US will be battery electric by mid 2026.
 

dhangejr

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I hope indigo is right. It’s a fad dictated by the market.

Case snd point.
A lot of old-school guy also tell you that the 70s killed the hot rod. Reason being was the gas prices of the 70s during the Vietnam war. They handed out gas vouchers as to limit how much fuel they could purchase. As a result, auto manufacturers begun producing more efficient cars. I believe It was at that time VW of introduced their first diesel to the states.
the major difference is there’s been laws set into place making gsd cars nearly illigal for the state to use. Yup his is where I live , and in Europe they already have legislation that mandates no more patrol or diesel vehicles after 2030, so I hope your right Pete lol
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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The big difference here is that many were already considering electric vehicle purchases prior to this spike.
And Americans started buying economy cars before the first OPEC crisis. Still, they went back to big cars once things died down, and did the same thing again in '78.

There were no gas vouchers in the 70s. Don't think we've had those since WWII..
 

turbobrick240

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Economy cars were popular around here right up through the 80s and 90s. Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, VWs, and a host of US made economy cars. It wasn't really until the SUV craze in the late 90s that gas guzzlers came back into fashion. Maybe it was different in other regions of the country.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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In the ‘78 crisis I was living in LA and the executives in my company with their Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs were panicked because they couldn’t commute while dealing with the odd/even fill up days. One guy offered me a straight trade of his new Caddy for my diesel Rabbit. I declined.
 

jmodge

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Economy cars were popular around here right up through the 80s and 90s. Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, VWs, and a host of US made economy cars. It wasn't really until the SUV craze in the late 90s that gas guzzlers came back into fashion. Maybe it was different in other regions of the country.
Typical around here to, and those SUV’s generally all have one person in them. I had the thought profits may be being stockpiled due to a near future move from gas and diesel. Whatever, I figure I just have to deal with it.
 

ToxicDoc

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First website is more neutral. Second one has the video
 
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dhangejr

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Yeah not vouchers, But In the 70s it was rationed , That’s why In 79 my grandfather bought 2 of these how ironic this marketing add is ..


musk did the same marketing thing with Tesla , genius I guess, he really CREATED the market for EV.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Fuel was rationed by you only being able to buy it according to the last digit of your license plate. If it was an odd number, you could buy fuel on odd numbered days. Even number, even days. Some stations limited the amount of fuel you could buy, but I don't think there was ever a federal limit on the amount of fuel you could purchase. The bigger issue for a lot of people was the lines. People often waited hours to get to fill their cars, as only some stations had fuel.

I bought my first new car, a '78 Rabbit Diesel, in April of '78, shortly before the second crisis hit. Diesel purchases weren't restricted then. And it was cheap: There was a station on Wilshire Blvd that had diesel for $.036/gallon. Eventually it went up to about $0.70. I was dating the woman who eventually became my wife and we had a lot of fun that year taking road trips all over SoCal. We could do it and others couldn't.
 

dhangejr

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That’s a cute story, a true VW love story lol then again it almost sounds like a historical testimony of price gouging too. did you watch that commercial I posted above ? I bet you remember it lol

Many nights in the garage I wish my grandpa was still around. I use his old tools. he would be 102 this year his stories about technology related to the automobile , when he was born there was no roads or mad production of cars. And then suddenly there was rocket ships and we were going to the moon. He always wondered where technology was headed.
I know my grandma and was up and down the i5 in one of em snd He was also a real estate appraiser and drove a lot for a living. Later he was playing with the Cadillac an Oldsmobile diesels in the 80s. I still have some of those old manuals downstairs I don’t know what to do with them but I won’t throw them away because they’re cool. It’s funny to miss my grandfather on Mother’s Day, but I know if he was here still it would be different. My mom would be happier snd we might actually do something.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I do remember that ad. And if there was price gouging back then it was by OPEC. In those days the US was much more dependent on imported oil than today.

My father in law had an old Olds Cutlass diesel. It was one of the small V8s, a 4 liter I think. Made my '49 HP Rabbit feel quick.
 

dhangejr

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opec is interesting to say the least. Its like it’s own nasdaq. I can’t say I fully understand it.
Recently, the US started sending oil to Europe to help with the supply shortage due to Russia that has something to done it’s opec agreement, But it’s much more complex than that. Some allow it others may not. what I know is Saudi Arabia still has a lot to do with the price of oil too. In 2020 Russia wanted to raise the price per barrel and the Saudi’s slashed prices by flooding the market so much that oil was 0$ per barrel. I still can’t understand how that’s possible ??
but history don’t write itself, 2 years later the price per is nearing record highs snd fiuel prices are following.


The last several years reminds me Reminds me of 9/11 and the years to follow, boy we sure were booming back then too. But then POP went the bubble. When just around the time ummm hat one guy took over.

yeah . At the same times I’m sure corporations are trying to get their profits before EV takes a huge chunk of their market snd it’s just busisness as usual In DC. I’m sure big oil was Jelious of the big pharmaceutical

haha Idk if it’s true it’s just the beginning of the great reset. We have some power in what happens because WE ARE THE MARKET. One think I like about musk is he knows this and what’s to make everyone equal in that way but it’s gonna cost americans and other wealthy countries .
 

El Dobro

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I'm guessing it's the ~$4.30 gas more than the ~$6.30 diesel. Though a buddy of mine with a diesel Colorado just told me he wants his next truck to be electric.
No diesels, but a lot of SUVs. There's only one person with a hybrid, so there's lots of whining about the prices.
 

kjclow

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Economy cars were popular around here right up through the 80s and 90s. Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, VWs, and a host of US made economy cars. It wasn't really until the SUV craze in the late 90s that gas guzzlers came back into fashion. Maybe it was different in other regions of the country.
The change to the SUV/crewcab pickups came after the minivans became passé. There was also a shift on the Cafe requirements that measured SUVs/ pickup differently than cars and minivans. Economy cars had seen bursts of popularity starting in the 60s through today. Lots of different factors that pushed it but it usually breaks back down to initial cost of the vehicle and current fuel pump pricing.
 

kjclow

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My perspective on the 70s, may not be correct but then I'm old and crusty! US was at a low point in oil drilling and it was cheaper to purchase from overseas. Primary source was the middle east and most of those countries got together and formed OPEC. In 73 (IIRC), OPEC realized how much power they had and reduced the amount of oil sent to North America. It drove the gas prices from the mid 20s per gallon to 70s. In the mid 80s, gas then went over a dollar per gallon for the first time. I remember when stations started charging by the half gallon since their signs were not set up for dollars. OPEC probably had the greatest effect of driving crude oil and refined products to be traded on a global supply basis. Today if the overall supply is reduced by 10-15% (Russia), the price spikes to reflect availability.

One thing to keep in mind that seems counter to all of this is that the US Gulf coast still refines the bulk of the fuel for the rest of the world. When hurricanes interrupt the refineries, that also effects pricing and availability at the pump.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Economy cars had seen bursts of popularity starting in the 60s through today.
You may not have noticed, but there are close to no economy cars for sale in NA any longer. The big 3 have no economy cars for sale any longer. Even VW has given up on the Golf in the NA market. Honda still has the Civic, gotten rid of the Fit. Toyota has the Corolla, the Yaris is gone, as is the Scion brand. Pretty slim pickings if you want a small, economical sedan or hatchback.
 

kjclow

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Since getting in to and out of the JSW can be a chore somedays, I've not looked at anything smaller for years.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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My perspective on the 70s, may not be correct but then I'm old and crusty! US was at a low point in oil drilling and it was cheaper to purchase from overseas.
Seems that is what is happening now. Oil companies stopped fracking efforts when the price per barrel dropped below their breakeven. It takes time for them to restart those wells, so here we are.
 

kjclow

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Except that they set a record in April for the highest gallons of fuel refined. For us, it's more than likely the mix of gasoline versus diesel refined from each barrel that's making the biggest price difference.
 

pkhoury

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Related to this thread, my mom decided she's going to put her 2015 GSW TDI up for sale. I asked her if she was interested in a Tesla, and I wasn't expecting "hell no" as an answer!

Apparently, she's buying my uncle's 2015 BMW X5D, which only has 15K miles on it, when my uncle takes delivery of the Rivian SUV and truck he ordered for he and his wife. I'm very curious to see it when he gets it, since the Tesla Cybertruck styling is about as attractive as the Pontiac Aztek.
 

nwdiver

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the Tesla Cybertruck styling is about as attractive as the Pontiac Aztek.
.... the big difference there is that the styling of the Aztek was was chosen while the styling of the CT was dictated by physics. The 30X chassis of the CT cannot be stamped. Downside of using a metal too hard to scratch or dent is that you can't stamp it like normal steel. Take a sheet cardboard and fold it into a truck shape. If you can fold a better looking truck send it to Franz... maybe they'll adopt it :)
 

kjclow

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It might have been designed by physics but I find it interesting to see everyone else that is working on an E-Truck is retaining the truck style. Looks like those that purchase a cyber truck are doing it mainly to say "Look at me, I'm saving the planet".
 

nwdiver

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It might have been designed by physics but I find it interesting to see everyone else that is working on an E-Truck is retaining the truck style. Looks like those that purchase a cyber truck are doing it mainly to say "Look at me, I'm saving the planet".
I don't think anyone is trying to 'save the planet'. Planet will get along just fine without the fools fuel addled apes. It's the quality of life of future generations we're trying to salvage.

Watch some of Sandy Monroes videos on the CT. The unconventional design of the CT gives it several big advantages.

  1. The body is the frame => lower cost and more interior volume for batteries and cabin space
  2. No paint means no paint shop => lower cost
  3. Folding steel is cheaper than stamping steel, no dies => lower cost
  4. No dents, no scratches and no corrosion
 

kjclow

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Sounds like a lot of the same arguments that Ford used when going to an aluminum box. Many have found out that the collision repair coasts are in the 3-4x higher for minor accidents.
 

nwdiver

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Sounds like a lot of the same arguments that Ford used when going to an aluminum box. Many have found out that the collision repair coasts are in the 3-4x higher for minor accidents.
??? The aluminum is still painted, stamped, the truck still has a frame and Al is soft and easy to scratch metal..... if anything that's the complete opposite. The advantage to Aluminum is it's lighter. That's it.

With the CT I would expect most accidents will have two outcomes. Either there's ~no damage or the truck is basically totaled. The crash tests will be interesting since I think it will have a shatter zone more than a crumple zone since 30X breaks before it bends.
 

turbobrick240

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Related to this thread, my mom decided she's going to put her 2015 GSW TDI up for sale. I asked her if she was interested in a Tesla, and I wasn't expecting "hell no" as an answer!

Apparently, she's buying my uncle's 2015 BMW X5D, which only has 15K miles on it, when my uncle takes delivery of the Rivian SUV and truck he ordered for he and his wife. I'm very curious to see it when he gets it, since the Tesla Cybertruck styling is about as attractive as the Pontiac Aztek.
Cool, I really hope Rivian survives as a manufacturer. The R1T/R1S look like very impressive vehicles. I suspect your mom will have a couple more years to decide about that X5D. Vehicle production is incredibly hard, especially for a newcomer to the market.
 
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