Who’s going to Tesla after their current TDI?

[kjclow]

So he numbers aren't that clear. And it explains why we don't see a wholesale shift to heat pumps here. Sure, it's fine as a backup heat source, as long as you're willing to pay for a second heat source. I made the choice to heat solely with oil, no heat pump, no wood stove, because it's comfortable and requires no attention. I have Nest thermostats that manage the night time setbacks, so I can literally forget about it. I seriously considered installing a wood stove last year. I had one for years in my antique home and liked it. But I honestly don't have time to tend a stove these days. And purchase and install would have cost about $4K. I wouldn't see a payback from that for a long, long time, depending on where the wood came from. I'm more interested in reducing the house's heating load through better sealing and insulation. I'd love to upgrade my windows, but I went a little crazy when we built the house, the main house has 34 windows. Most experts say that replacing windows is an expense you'll probably never recover in saved energy costs, unless they are in really bad condition.

Depending on what you replace the windows with, figure $600-1000 per window. We replaced the ones in our bedrooms and living room past year. It's made a big difference in comfort and noise but not that big of difference in energy consumption. House was built in 95 and furnace was replaced/upgraded in about 2006. Only thing I can do from this point is adding more or better insulation in the attic.

I learned a long time ago that heat pumps work well from about 30F up. Get much below that and they're not that great.

 

[kjclow]

"As proposed, the program would run for 12 months and enroll up to 200 drivers. Customers of Duke Energy Carolinas would get the $19.99 monthly flat fee deal. The Duke Energy Progress customers would pay a bit more, at $24.99.

The flat rate covers up to 800 kwH per month, which works out to about 2,000 miles per month. Doing the math, that is a pretty good deal compared to the price of gas these days."

Yay! another subscription! I would go over the 800kwh/mo too. I wonder what it costs then? What is it going to cost on the 13th month? Like every other proposal. it doesnt stay cheap for long.


I know my utility doesn't offer this. I did get offered a free electric water heater when I built my house. They also do Net Metering for solar. nothing for EVs. We are part of a rural coop. not much EV activity here.

Looks like I would be throwing money way if I signed up for that plan. I'm doing about 12k miles on the truck and under 5k on the JSW for the last two years. Well, that and I would have to replace both paid off vehicles.

 

[kjclow]

Air cooled Porsche prices are crazy. Saw this today:

1965 Porsche 911 Coupe 5-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a 1965 Porsche 911 Coupe 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #70,386.

bringatrailer.com

The other day they had a 64 Dodge power wagon crewcab with the 225 slant 6. Think the current bid was $27,000. The thing might have sold for $2700 new.

 

[turbobrick240]

I learned a long time ago that heat pumps work well from about 30F up. Get much below that and they're not that great.

That was true a long time ago. Today's multi-stage, cold climate air source heat pumps have come a long way.

Achieve Comfort and Reliable Performance with Cold-Climate Heat Pumps - Zero Energy Project

Today, there are more opportunities to apply heat pumps in a wide range of climates, including cold-climate zones. All-electric, high-performance heat pumps are among the most effective and popular technologies for decarbonizing heating and cooling, especially as the industry moves toward...

zeroenergyproject.org

.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

(to Turbobrick, IBW, and anyone else who brought up Porsches)

Ok, fair enough - there are other grille-less cars that don't look strange to me I brought up the Corvair due to my following "Matt's Off-Road Recovery" on YouTube - they have a rig called the "Morrvair" (the body of a Corvair station wagon on a pickup truck frame with an LS under the nose), so Corvairs are fresh in my mind. (I started watching because of the modified Jeep Cherokee XJ they also use for recoveries, but I do like the Morrvair too...)

 

[turbobrick240]

(to Turbobrick, IBW, and anyone else who brought up Porsches)

Ok, fair enough - there are other grille-less cars that don't look strange to me I brought up the Corvair due to my following "Matt's Off-Road Recovery" on YouTube - they have a rig called the "Morrvair" (the body of a Corvair station wagon on a pickup truck frame with an LS under the nose), so Corvairs are fresh in my mind. (I started watching because of the modified Jeep Cherokee XJ they also use for recoveries, but I do like the Morrvair too...)

I like those recovery videos too. Matt's crew has a really good vibe. Can't wait for Ed to get his rebuilt LJ surprise!

 

[Rob Mayercik]

I like those recovery videos too. Matt's crew has a really good vibe. Can't wait for Ed to get his rebuilt LJ surprise!

Yeah, I've been following the Golden Nugget work from the start (the scouting mission and recovery on MORR, then the refreshing efforts through FabRats and RobbyLaytonNation - I can't wait to see it presented back to Ed.

 

[kjclow]

Saw this morning that the CEO of Rivan is saying that they are facing a battery shortage. All those e-cars we're supposed to be switching to, won't be available

 

[nwdiver]

Saw this morning that the CEO of Rivan is saying that they are facing a battery shortage. All those e-cars we're supposed to be switching to, won't be available

Because Rivian uses Nickel based batteries and Russia was a significant source of Nickel. Iron based batteries are less problematic. They're working to shift to LFP but it takes time to build a new supply chain. Looks like late 2023.

Rivian Promises LFP, 800V Architecture, and Bidirectional Charging in Future EVs

RJ Scaringe said that when at the company’s earnings call while also giving bad news: it lost $2.46 billion in the last quarter of 2021.

www.autoevolution.com

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

What if you end up with two vehicles in your garage: one TDI for road trips and one EV for the city?

It might make sense for a certain environmentally responsible population segment in the US and worldwide, correct?

Environmentally responsible is a sales gimmick. The carbon footprint of a new car let alone electric car is HUGE. Lack of battery components micro chips... So many greener than thou's are brainless to this.

That said I'm not against electric. On the contrary I own one for economic purposes, JSW for freeway and a soulless... p p p prius... for 25 free around town miles (o.k. $1 for 5Kw 110v home charge)

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

Streaming vs Beta Max might be more apt. Vs VHS if you're feeling generous

I still have 8tracks and a dirty deisel.l. don't shoot me

 

[nicklockard]

Missed the discussion for awhile, but yes, if Indigo is getting rid of the pool, definitely install in-ground heat pump. At that COP it's a no-brainer.

Saw the nwdriver claim " A heat pump provides ~3kWh of heat per kWh of electricity"--it's only true at optimal temperatures.

 

[nwdiver]

Missed the discussion for awhile, but yes, if Indigo is getting rid of the pool, definitely install in-ground heat pump. At that COP it's a no-brainer.

Saw the nwdriver claim " A heat pump provides ~3kWh of heat per kWh of electricity"--it's only true at optimal temperatures.

COP of ~3 is the average for places that you need A/C for part of the year. A good heat pump can provide ~4kWh of heat per kWh at 'optimal' temperatures

Goes back to the point that if you're going to have an Air Conditioner.... get an A/C that can provide heat too. Why burn oil to warm your house if it's 40F outside?

 

[turbobrick240]

There is also a pretty good federal tax credit on ground source heat pumps unless it phased out. None on air sourced heat pumps anymore though for sure.

Yup, a 26% federal tax credit on ground source systems through 2022, then reduced to 22% in 2023.

 

[nicklockard]

COP of ~3 is the average for places that you need A/C for part of the year. A good heat pump can provide ~4kWh of heat per kWh at 'optimal' temperatures

Goes back to the point that if you're going to have an Air Conditioner.... get an A/C that can provide heat too. Why burn oil to warm your house if it's 40F outside?

Thank you for the clarification. My house has 2 heat pump AC's. One is older with actual SEER values probably around 9.5-11 at best (it's 25 years old but still works). As it has aged, I'd guess that the heat pump's actual COP has probably decayed too (the heat exchangers get clogged with hair, dust, rust).

The other heat pump AC is 1 year old and is rated for 14 SEER. My heating days are vastly outnumbered by cooling days, so it hardly matters that I have a heat pump AC for my home, sadly. The best effect I've achieved for improving comfort and managing cooling costs has been to strategically pre-chill the home before the most expensive time of day. We get charged for TOU and for peak demand (on top of TOU rates). So anything I can do to minimize peak demand, especially during peak TOU hours (3pm-7pm) has a benefit to me.

 

[pkhoury]

It cracks me up that this thread is now about energy efficiency rather than going to Tesla from a TDI. I guess that means I could start a non-car related topic, about solar panel use? I asked a frequent commenter on this thread, and got a poor response.

 

[nwdiver]

It cracks me up that this thread is now about energy efficiency rather than going to Tesla from a TDI. I guess that means I could start a non-car related topic, about solar panel use? I asked a frequent commenter on this thread, and got a poor response.

.... isn't going to a Tesla from a TDI all about energy efficiency? And the comment that 'derailed' the thread was about alternatives to burning oil for heat which is even more on topic. I guess we could start a new thread titled 'How to not burn oil for energy'

 

[jmodge]

If you really want thread derailment, ponder this. If one is swallowed by an elephant, how does one get out?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I guess we could start a new thread titled 'How to not burn oil for energy'

This morning I heard two news stories about not buring oil (or natural gas) to make electricity. The alternative that companies and utilities in the US and Europe are choosing right now? Coal. Coil use is way up.

 

[nwdiver]

This morning I heard two news stories about not buring oil (or natural gas) to make electricity. The alternative that companies and utilities in the US and Europe are choosing right now? Coal. Coil use is way up.

The result of piss poor planning and idiotic intransigence for the past 20 years. Now they're forced to use what they have lying around. Need to quadruple down on solar, wind and energy efficiency.

 

[turbobrick240]

The coal surge is temporary. Thermal coal plants are getting decommissioned at a rapid rate, and new ones aren't getting built in the US.

Xcel Energy to speed up Colorado’s last scheduled coal plant closure to 2031

Xcel Energy said Unit 3 of its Comanche Generating Station in Pueblo will cease operations by Jan. 1, 2031, four years earlier than previously agreed and decades ahead of the plant’s original retirement date.

missoulacurrent.com

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Europe is postponing decomissioning of coal plants. And some are getting recommissioned, temporarily.

Coal power’s sharp rebound is taking it to a new record in 2021, threatening net zero goals - News - IEA

Coal power’s sharp rebound is taking it to a new record in 2021, threatening net zero goals - News from the International Energy Agency

www.iea.org

 

[kjclow]

Europe has to burn coal if they can't get natural gas and oil from their regular supplier. Most of the countries shuttered the nuclear plants years ago, so what are they going to do for the immediate needs?

 

[turbobrick240]

Most of Europe has been asleep at the switch for the last decade. It should have been a wakeup call when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014. They're awake now, and I expect their transition to renewables has a whole new sense urgency. It's a damned shame they weren't more proactive back in 2014.

 

[gulfcoastguy]

Restart their nuclear plants? It could be safely done within a month or so.

Most of Europe has been asleep at the switch for the last decade. It should have been a wakeup call when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014. They're awake now, and I expect their transition to renewables has a whole new sense urgency. It's a damned shame they weren't more proactive back in 2014.

 

[turbobrick240]

Restart their nuclear plants? It could be safely done within a month or so.

I'm not a huge proponent of nuclear power, but yeah, that would make sense. And not prematurely decommissioning the existing nuclear plants. But Germany has more of a nuclear phobia than I do, so not holding out much hope on that front. I'm more optimistic that Europe will make a huge push on solar and wind power installations in the coming months and years.

 

[gulfcoastguy]

Germany has already made a huge investment in solar and a good start on wind. Yet math is brutal at times. One windmill may be rated for 3 megawatts but probably actually averages a megawatt for a mill with 100 yard span while a single nuke plant can produce 3 giga watts 24/7. As to solar Germany is a Northern European country with long dark winters. The more solar they installed, the more nuclear they shuttered, the more coal they burned.

I'm not a huge proponent of nuclear power, but yeah, that would make sense. And not prematurely decommissioning the existing nuclear plants. But Germany has more of a nuclear phobia than I do, so not holding out much hope on that front. I'm more optimistic that Europe will make a huge push on solar and wind power installations in the coming months and years.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, Germany was an early leader in photovoltaics. All the more impressive, considering that they don't get particularly strong insolation. Spain, on the other hand, could supply the entire continent from a small portion of Andalusia. Unfortunately, solar installations in Germany collapsed around 2013. They are finally making a comeback, and the new "Easter package" legislation should accelerate things considerably.

Solar power in Germany – output, business & perspectives

Key facts on Germany's solar energy sector.

www.cleanenergywire.org

 

[nwdiver]

probably actually averages

.... why settle for 'probably'? These numbers exist and they're not terribly hard to find. Germany produced 131,700GWh from wind energy in 2020 from an installed capacity of 62.7GW. New wind turbines run ~$1/w so going forward it would cost ~$63B to produce an additional ~131,700GW/yr. You would need 16GW of nuclear to produce that much energy. Nuclear runs ~$15/w so you'd need to spend $240B to achieve the same amount of energy production. $63B for wind vs $240B for nuclear. THAT is why ~no one is building nuclear plants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Germany

 

[gulfcoastguy]

.... why settle for 'probably'? These numbers exist and they're not terribly hard to find. Germany produced 131,700GWh from wind energy in 2020 from an installed capacity of 62.7GW. New wind turbines run ~$1/w so going forward it would cost ~$63B to produce an additional ~131,700GW/yr. You would need 16GW of nuclear to produce that much energy. Nuclear runs ~$15/w so you'd need to spend $240B to achieve the same amount of energy production. $63B for wind vs $240B for nuclear. THAT is why ~no one is building nuclear plants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Germany

Your math assumes new plants. Germany has existing plants that they have shut down. Not the same thing