Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[maybe368]

if you live in a great state like AZ you delete the DPF, block off the EGR, and call it a day.

I live in the so-so State of Arizona and I am subject to emissions test. Yes it is an opacity test, but they always look under the hood and under the car to see if all of the equipment is there. So, you are not subject to emissions testing in Gilbert? If you are an attorney, how do you think the bar would react to your suggestion that people should violate state and federal laws by tampering with the emissions equipment? You are right, sir, this is fun...Mark

 

[YikeGrymon]

Boy, everyone here sure is TESTY this evening.

WTH

 

[jhawklver]

This is fun. Your car is fixable that is why they are offering a buy back OR modification. Indeed VW needs to compensate people who want to sell their cars so they can get the value that has been historically given to TDIs pre-scandal. But people should stop being mad until they know what is going to happen. Most people on this forum are like the people who were chasing Frankenstein, village idiots with pitchforks. If the settlement that comes back is bull**** then be mad. You still have a fun car that gets great fuel economy. Worse case scenario if you live in a great state like AZ you delete the DPF, block off the EGR, and call it a day.

And to continue the trend, go **** yourself, Jackass.

From everthing I can see, my car can't be fixed. We'll know more soon, but even if a fix is offered on my car it includes a retrofit and uncertainty as to lognevity. You act like I can blink and the "fix' is done with no impact. That is a stupid and childish thought. Your last post (quoted here) shows more depth, reasoning and understanding so it is clear your earlier post were more flaming and you understand that VW can't blink and fix my car to be the same... (and shame on me for rising to the bait).

I'm waiting until the announcement. Just took the car on a 3k roundtrip and realized why I wish this car was legit. Just like I wish Sosa, Mcgwire, Bonds were legit. It's awesome to see what cheating can do against clean entries. Ben Johnson would be another example.

Problem is there are regulations. VW did ignore them. We as owners have been impacted... and VW will reap the consequences.

Let's all **** ourselves.

 

[maybe368]

If it can't be fixed then why is VW offering a modification as opposed to ONLY buy backs?

While it is not a fact yet, it is generally agreed that my Beetle cannot be fixed without a hack job because it has none of the equipment necessary...Mark

 

[romad]

I live in the so-so State of Arizona and I am subject to emissions test. Yes it is an opacity test, but they always look under the hood and under the car to see if all of the equipment is there. So, you are not subject to emissions testing in Gilbert? If you are an attorney, how do you think the bar would react to your suggestion that people should violate state and federal laws by tampering with the emissions equipment? You are right, sir, this is fun...Mark

Fortunately, only those who live in the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas are subject to emissions testing.

 

[MKVI_TDI]

Fortunately, only those who live in the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas are subject to emissions testing.

Emissions will pass you as long as it looks like you have everything there. So Mark unless it is obvious your DPF is gone a normal emissions person isn't going to know otherwise.

 

[maybe368]

I guess it's a good thing you don't know who I am right?

Good for you maybe, but I was a pretty good investigator in another life. All that aside, you are not really putting a good face on the legal profession, are you? And you still haven't answered my question, who is the victim of VW's crime?...Mark

 

[JSWTDI09]

Loyal customers, along with the rest of us, are victims of VW's fraud

1) I am not a "loyal customer". My '09 is the first VW I have driven since a 1978 Sciroco (and a few air cooled ones before that).
2) Most importantly, I am not a victim. If you choose to consider yourself a victim, that is your right. However, this does not necessarily make me a victim. My car is long since paid off and it has been remarkably reliable for over 7 years. Aside from regular maintenance and wear items (like tires, brakes, batteries, etc.). It has had only one weird intermittent problem which was easily fixed in 5 minutes after diagnosing it with VCDS and getting a part for free from another TDIClub member.

I will be happy if I keep my car or I will also be happy to sell it back to VW (if the offer is reasonable). I see absolutely no way in which I am a victim in this situation. Resale value is meaningless to me because I have no reason (or desire) to sell my car. I enjoy driving my car every day. I just filled the tank yesterday and I got over 35mpg on the last tank (calculated not MFD) and that was all stop-and-go city driving in 110 degree desert heat with the A/C blasting at full tilt continuously. VW screwed up big time (and they will pay for it), but it really doesn't hurt me one bit.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[maybe368]

Fortunately, only those who live in the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas are subject to emissions testing.

Yes, but that area includes Gilbert...Mark

 

[maybe368]

I chuckle at the "legal professionals" that announce who and what they are and then do everything that most "legal professionals" hate, equivocating, dodging questions that they know that the answers to will hurt their case and name calling. I'm proud to be an American ...Mark

 

[Paulman]

So, IF it's financially opportune to accept a buyback on, say a 2013 Jetta TDI, what would be the downside(s) to getting a 2016 GLI?

(Let's assume gas/diesel prices stay the same for the next 2 years.)

Paul

 

[waltzconmigo]

thanks again Lawson

 

[maybe368]

Wow, gone in 60 seconds, the original was a great movie...Mark

 

[romad]

Yes, but that area includes Gilbert...Mark

Yep. I looked at the AZ emissions areas when I was looking to see where in AZ I would like to live. I'd already ruled out everywhere south of Black Canyon City latitude as too freaking hot!

BTW, I heard on the news there is another bad fire near Yarnell; hope there won't be a repeat of a couple of years ago.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

thanks again Lawson

You bet!

 

[maybe368]

Yep. I looked at the AZ emissions areas when I was looking to see where in AZ I would like to live. I'd already ruled out everywhere south of Black Canyon City latitude as too freaking hot!

BTW, I heard on the news there is another bad fire near Yarnell; hope there won't be a repeat of a couple of years ago.

Yeah. it is pretty big news here, if those 19 guys had not have been killed 3 years ago, it would just be another fire. It looks like they are getting a handle on it, but there are still people out of their homes . I tried to put myself in the position of those poor guys as they were deploying their fire shelters, what a tragic event. There was definitely a shudder in the force that day. What kills me is that the State of Arizona denied survivors pensions to all but a few of them. One was just granted a couple of days ago, I hope it is retroactive 3 years, that will be a nice check for the family...Mark

 

[maybe368]

1) I am not a "loyal customer". My '09 is the first VW I have driven since a 1978 Sciroco (and a few air cooled ones before that).
2) Most importantly, I am not a victim. If you choose to consider yourself a victim, that is your right. However, this does not necessarily make me a victim. My car is long since paid off and it has been remarkably reliable for over 7 years. Aside from regular maintenance and wear items (like tires, brakes, batteries, etc.). It has had only one weird intermittent problem which was easily fixed in 5 minutes after diagnosing it with VCDS and getting a part for free from another TDIClub member.

I will be happy if I keep my car or I will also be happy to sell it back to VW (if the offer is reasonable). I see absolutely no way in which I am a victim in this situation. Resale value is meaningless to me because I have no reason (or desire) to sell my car. I enjoy driving my car every day. I just filled the tank yesterday and I got over 35mpg on the last tank (calculated not MFD) and that was all stop-and-go city driving in 110 degree desert heat with the A/C blasting at full tilt continuously. VW screwed up big time (and they will pay for it), but it really doesn't hurt me one bit.

Have Fun!

Don

Don, this is a semantics argument. You say that you are not a victim, using one meaning, that which you believe it means. As I said, 1 of the elements of crime, in order for it to be a crime, is that there has to be a victim of said crime. Whether you like it or not, legally, you are the victim in this case, because you own an affected vehicle. As a victim, you can do whatever you want, refuse the fix, if any, refuse a buyback, if any and keep driving your car, if they let you. So, it is just another argument of semantics...Mark

 

[JSWTDI09]

Don, this is a semantics argument. You say that you are not a victim, using one meaning, that which you believe it means. As I said, 1 of the elements of crime, in order for it to be a crime, is that there has to be a victim of said crime. Whether you like it or not, legally, you are the victim in this case, because you own an affected vehicle. As a victim, you can do whatever you want, refuse the fix, if any, refuse a buyback, if any and keep driving your car, if they let you. So, it is just another argument of semantics...Mark

I am not a lawyer, and I have no need to deal with a lawyer (all my end of live "stuff" is in order and paid for), so I really don't care about the "legal" meaning of a term, I have committed no crimes. I was only talking about the English meaning of the word. Anyway, that was not my point in the first place, so enough about words.

My point has to do with emotions or how a person feels. If you feel like a victim, then you are a victim (in a way). If you do not feel victimized and you don't need to sell your car, you are currently not a victim (except maybe in a legal sense). Feeling victimized is not a pleasant emotion, so I simply refuse to label myself a victim. This has nothing to do with VW, my car, or any legal decisions or maneuvers (which I am watching). It is all about my own peace of mind and how I choose to live my life. I am not a victim (English definition) simply because I choose not to be a victim. It appears that many posters in this thread have made a different choice, and that is their right. That's all, I'm going to bed (and I sleep well).

Have Fun!

Don

 

[Bisoned]

So all the statements that said those very things, "VW is doing everything
to make it right" and they were "working with EPA on solutions", you missed?
Did you also miss the $1000 outright no strings attached goodwill gift, or did
that do nothing for you? You are not well informed or just love complaining.
Being miserable makes some people happy (oxymoron intentional). If you can
take a deep breath and wait another 3 weeks you will find out what is on the
table. Otherwise feel free to go crazy.

What the fudge are you talking about. Yes it did come and it takes time to deal with.
As far as forced, not sure what you mean, got caught? Yep that forced their hand,
but they admitted it. They also announced they set aside $10 or $12 billion to deal
with it. They already have a fix for Europe TDI's. I am no VW fan, but all in all they
have handled it about as good as one can expect so far, including hiring Kenneth
Roy Feinberg. He is the fixer and does it by settling. I think BP was very generous.

I am sure VW/Audi/Porsche/Bentley/Bugatti/Lamborghini/Ducati/ŠKODA
will suffer along with the loss of your loyalty. Your local Prius or Hyundai dealers await you.

Personally I enjoy my VW and gosh darn it they make fun to drive cars. I just can't replace
my TDI with anything that combines fun, function, comfort and economy for my needs.
I don't know what I will drive after this car, but my plan is to keep this another +8 yrs.

Some will continue to drink the kool aid.

The $1,000 was great, and they promised 100% transparency. How long ago was that? Have you read the articles where there is documented proof that VW has been anything BUT transparent? Where has the transparency happened? I seem to have missed it.

Employees ordered to destroy evidence. Court filings where they shirk responsibility. Low level managers thrown under the bus. Only a handful of employees, they claim, were responsible for this. Yet, we come to find out this was institutional fraud from the bottom to the top. Even a PowerPoint presentation documenting how to cheat emissions.

Fact is this is corporate greed. Owners of VW's are the victims. As is the environment, and every American who has to breathe the noxious fumes these dirty vehicles spew.

You cannot beat me with facts. The truth is the truth. I happen to have read almost every article I could on this. I also know a little about consumer law. The facts support my stance. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh and I've already picked out my Mercedes GLS 550. No Prius or Hyundai for me. Once the deal is announced I will be parking my Passat for good and getting behind the wheel of my new car. Easily the best car I've ever driven, by a large margin.

 

[Bisoned]

1) I am not a "loyal customer". My '09 is the first VW I have driven since a 1978 Sciroco (and a few air cooled ones before that).
2) Most importantly, I am not a victim. If you choose to consider yourself a victim, that is your right. However, this does not necessarily make me a victim. My car is long since paid off and it has been remarkably reliable for over 7 years. Aside from regular maintenance and wear items (like tires, brakes, batteries, etc.). It has had only one weird intermittent problem which was easily fixed in 5 minutes after diagnosing it with VCDS and getting a part for free from another TDIClub member.

I will be happy if I keep my car or I will also be happy to sell it back to VW (if the offer is reasonable). I see absolutely no way in which I am a victim in this situation. Resale value is meaningless to me because I have no reason (or desire) to sell my car. I enjoy driving my car every day. I just filled the tank yesterday and I got over 35mpg on the last tank (calculated not MFD) and that was all stop-and-go city driving in 110 degree desert heat with the A/C blasting at full tilt continuously. VW screwed up big time (and they will pay for it), but it really doesn't hurt me one bit.

Have Fun!

Don

Your point is you choose not to be a victim. That's fine. You did buy a vehicle that VW knowingly rigged to cheat emissions. You benefitted by enjoying an increased fuel efficiency at the expense of the environment. Of course you didn't know this either.

VW could not produce a clean car that would meet EPA standards and make a good profit. So they decided to not play by the rules. Stupid. Arrogant. Criminal.

I am awake now at 2:38 AM. I woke up coughing, and the cough blew up into a full on asthma attack. NOX/ozone are known to cause respiratory irritation. Don't know if you knew that. Am I saying that the cheating vehicles alone caused this? No. But if every car maker had VWs cavalier attitude about the air we breathe, how much more would our air be polluted? How much smog?

Can't deny that some of the affected VW's cause up to 40X the epa limit of NOX emissions.

 

[mydecember1985]

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[mydecember1985]

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[mydecember1985]

So my wife crammed the goodwill package somewhere around the house. I've had it for about a month. Not activated yet, as it's a 70+mile drive round trip just to go activate a gift card. Says I have 2 years to activate it, so I was going to at next service in 2 months or so.

Only I throw away the mail, and I always rip it to shreds. I would've known if those cards were there.

Soooo... If she can't remember where she stashed it, do you think that VW would be gracious enough to send me another set and just void the old card #s??

 

[jimbo1mcm]

My wife's 2015 TDI is running nicely, coming up on 19,000 miles. I think if VW offers a buyback that is a premium I might move her into something else. It's a once-in-a-lifetime offer from VW. The emission requirements for diesels are so complicated now that the benefits aren't outweighing the future repair costs. They are squeezing pretty good mileage out of 4 cylinder turbos that run on gasoline.

 

[dslman]

..... if every car maker had VWs cavalier attitude about the air we breathe, how much more would our air be polluted? How much smog?
Can't deny that some of the affected VW's cause up to 40X the epa limit of NOX emissions.

If every car maker cheated exactly like VW did, I'd HOPE EPA/CARB in all their wisdom would have caught them much sooner than this. (unless they really are that stupid)



Now if the question is:



If 100% every Manufacture cheating exactly like VW did on all the total production of Diesel cars from every manufacture sold in North America?
It would hardly have made any measurable difference because the combined total of all manufactures selling Diesel Powered Cars in USA is only about 1%.


This is how Pollution looks NOW:

And this is how Pollution WOULD look if every single Manufacture who sells Diesel Cars in USA was cheating exactly like VW did:

FINALLY, My Crystal Ball showed me Last night once again, There will be NO VICTIMS because in 10 days it will be revealed:

There will be NO Discounts NOR Lowball Buybacks.

VW understands it owes each of us the full purchase price minus depreciation/mileage deduction PLUS additional damages and fees.


Mark my words, in 10 days, there will be NO NEED FOR LAWSUITS, NO VICTIMS, 90% to 97% of us will all be Celebrating happy & having a big Party!

It's more clear to me now than it ever was in the past 8 months:

VW WILL MAKE THINGS RIGHT!

They will turn this whole thing around in 10 days, 90% to 97% of us will be happy.

 

[donallen]

Depends. Will I have warranties for the "work" done that I didn't buy into when I purchased? If the fuel economy was the same but the system broke down or longvity was impaced? Yes. I'd be complaining.

Let's play your stupid game. If VW could give me the same fuel economy, performance and longevity with the fix... why the **** would they cheat in the first place?

I highly doubt my car is fixable. And It is in good condition with lowish miles. Should I be estactic that VW's fraud put me in a place where if I wanted to sell (I don't but life can change) or if I got into an accident my value is greatly reduced.

Go **** myself, indeed. Jackass.

I agree with you. I am in the same position -- 2011 JSW with less than 27000 miles. I planned to keep the car until it or I couldn't move. Now I may be forced to sell it back to these criminals for exactly the reasons you state: they may get the emissions under control, but something's got to give here; there are always tradeoffs. Do I trust VW to preserve the long-term reliability of my car, which can't be tested by definition, in order to get the court/EPA/CARB off their backs? About as far as I can throw a piano.

And once I sell it back to them (assuming the buyback price is fair for a low-mileage, excellent-condition car), what do I do? I bought this car because i care about the environment (my other car is a BMW i3 electric-only). I also care about my driving experience -- I want manual transmission and good handling (in other words, I'm not a typical American SUV-driving lemming). There's nothing comparable to these VWs in both regards. Prius? Reliable, excellent fuel efficiency, mind-numbingly boring to drive. Any other ideas? No? There aren't any.

And why should I have to spend more money after the buyback to replace the car, which probably precludes getting a newer VW, which I am loathe to do anyway after these people have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are criminal sleaze-bags (the people running the other companies are probably also criminal sleaze-bags, but most of them haven't proven it -- yet).

Victim? Damned right I'm a victim.

 

[GSwag]

My dad has a 72 Chevy K5 blazer. Runs good but has some rust. Tempted to just get rid of all these cars and fix this blazer up a little and drive it. None of this electronic BS. Doesn't take a damn degree in computer science to work on the thing. No apple car play, no back up camera, no emissions tests, no starlink, no blind spot protection, no dealer diagnostic fees, no bullsh**. Can fix it myself and not have to consult forums, overpriced, underachieving dealers just to try and understand what is wrong. Owning a car has gotten too complicated.

 

[maybe368]

My dad has a 72 Chevy K5 blazer. Runs good but has some rust. Tempted to just get rid of all these cars and fix this blazer up a little and drive it. None of this electronic BS. Doesn't take a damn degree in computer science to work on the thing. No apple car play, no back up camera, no emissions tests, no starlink, no blind spot protection, no dealer diagnostic fees, no bullsh**. Can fix it myself and not have to consult forums, overpriced, underachieving dealers just to try and understand what is wrong. Owning a car has gotten too complicated.

Go for it, that is what I do. There is good therapy in doing that...Mark

 

[da_jokker]

Let's not forget that VW is under no obligation to assure we continue to get the fuel mileage we have now. We've enjoyed getting higher than the EPA estimates but that is rare for a car. I've owned many new cars I've never gotten over the EPA estimate.

What the real issue is, is going to be the reliability of the emissions Hardware when the engine is told to run "correctly". And every single one of our cars CAN run to meet the emission requirements.

It is that predictable emissions failure down the road that we should all be worried about.

So for those that don't have emissions test and you don't plan on selling it, then just take the payoff, use it to buy tuning software and a DPF delete and enjoy the next 200k miles.

But for many of us, our states we'll make sure we don't have that option so it leaves us in a bind and truly victims.

 

[Chris Thomas]

But, no heated seats in that k5 and I am scared to guess at the MPG. As for me I am thinking a newer GM truck and find a 03-06 VW TDI(hopefully not running so it is cheaper). Like the Canyon diesel, if I go that route I'll just have the one vehicle. As I drive 111 miles to work 4 days a week. Fuel mileage is somewhat important, but, don't think the diesel and the newer requirements are going to be worth it. Heck, the newer Malibu hybrid can get 45+ MPG. Just feed up with VW and their lack of information(I know about the gag order) and the attitude they have, do feel sorry for the dealerships and their employees.