Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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MrSprdSheet

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Sep 6, 2005
Location
East Coast
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'09 JSW TDI
Bad comparison to tobacco. Those who smoke make the choice to smoke. ....
We cannot choose what air we are breathing. There is a reason for the limits on NOX, and the reason isn't to keep VW TDI's off the road.
Along these lines, take an EV running coal power versus a TDI. On page 38, you'll see how NOx emissions rates from coal vary. It is the only power source materially adding NOx to the air. The bottom chart, on that page, shows 4 pounds per megawatt hour down close to zero with modern power plant SCR systems. As you see NOx emissions go down, note you are looking at either newer coal, or coal retrofitted with SCR. -They've been doing this stuff for decades.

https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/benchmark2008.pdf

An EV and a TDI are close enough in NOx emissions, after fitting for modern Tier 2 bin 5 regs (Euro 6, etc) not to conclude that an axe is being ground for diesel.
 

dgoodhue

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Location
Framingham, MA
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'14 6MT JSW
A lot of us keep requesting that people don't quote the trolls, but they still do it. :eek:
It is kind of hard to keep track which users are a troll or not. Their are also some users that aren't trolls, but who tend to go way off topic and could be on ignore lists as well. Or perhaps I am on your troll list and you won't see this post anyways :D
 

aliasbane

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
CT
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Passat 2013
Are any of you getting over 39/40 mpg in a Jetta sports wagon? I'm happy averaging around 35-36 +- (no not going to complain about getting a little less then sticker)? Maybe I'll have to walk back my no more vw's statement if they can fix the Passat and it still gets close to 50mpg. Does it have the same hpfp as the Jetta? Any DPF issues with the Passat?
I am with you on this one. I have no idea how people get such good mileage per gallon on Passats. I own a 2013 Passat TDI. I average 550miles a tank, with a average 15-16g fill up. I dont let it really get low into the red on the gas meter.

Which is bloody great compared to other cars still, but which I could hit 700 or mid 600s on a tank.. and I dont drive over 65, which is why Im confused at how people pull it off. So if the fix lowers my MPG by say 5 mpg I will be really mad, cause then I would rather get something else.
 

PJ1

Member
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Location
Southeast
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Jetta
My nightmare scenario occurred today...my 2010 Jetta TDI started having some hesitation and then then the engine started really becoming choppy. The "Service Now" and glow plug light came on. I pulled over immediately and turned the car off...so, what do you do? It will still crank, I'm pretty sure I could drive another 1/3 mile if need be. I'm thinking about towing it to my house, buying a Honda and waiting for buyback details. I could haul it to the dealership and drive it up and turn over the keys...Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I don't want a VW dealer to run a diagnosis on it in case it is something catastrophic...
 

fan of fanboys

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Location
Columbia, SC
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2014 Jetta Sedan
Maybe I missed (more likely no one knows) but is there any speculation that the cashback amount would vary based on choosing buyback vs getting fixed?
 

Bisoned

Banned
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13 Passat
Along these lines, take an EV running coal power versus a TDI. On page 38, you'll see how NOx emissions rates from coal vary. It is the only power source materially adding NOx to the air. The bottom chart, on that page, shows 4 pounds per megawatt hour down close to zero with modern power plant SCR systems. As you see NOx emissions go down, note you are looking at either newer coal, or coal retrofitted with SCR. -They've been doing this stuff for decades.
https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/benchmark2008.pdf
An EV and a TDI are close enough in NOx emissions, after fitting for modern Tier 2 bin 5 regs (Euro 6, etc) not to conclude that an axe is being ground for diesel.

Not all power is coal power. I don't see how you can ascribe a number to EV's..... Note too there are more and more alternate energy sources being added to the grid. Near me they are building a large off shore wind farm. If and EV plugs into that then there are zero emissions.

The axe to grind isn't against diesels. It is against fossil fuels.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
This might sound odd but give it a shot...
Get some locally sourced honey that way the bees are collecting nectar and such from the local verity of flowers that are casing the allergies. Take a teaspoon or two per day straight from the container. Friend of mine says this helps him more than any type of allergy medication. It will at the very least help sooth the sore throat symptoms.
No, it's not odd, I read about it in a home remedies book back in the 60s or 70s. However, that would not help me. I was tested to see what allergens I was susceptible, and mine are all grasses. Of course, once the grass pollens have "primed" me then others can trigger a reaction. I have found that if I don't "stop and smell the roses" (or other flowers) I'm fine around flowers. I suspect that with distance I don't get enough to trigger a reaction. That is also probably why smog emissions don't either.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Are any of you getting over 39/40 mpg in a Jetta sports wagon? I'm happy averaging around 35-36 +- (no not going to complain about getting a little less then sticker)? Maybe I'll have to walk back my no more vw's statement if they can fix the Passat and it still gets close to 50mpg. Does it have the same hpfp as the Jetta? Any DPF issues with the Passat?
Is it an automatic or manual? Automatics would tend to get in the mid-upper 30s; manuals probably in the low 40s. Of course it also depends on how you drive it.
 

applejacks

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Location
Indiana
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI
I am with you on this one. I have no idea how people get such good mileage per gallon on Passats. Im confused at how people pull it off.
I used to think this way about my Jetta and now that I have learned how to achieve great FE, it will be difficult to replace. -There was a day when I couldn't get over 450 miles on a tank to save my life. Now I'm bummed out to not hit 525 and once I get my Green Diesel tune on the car, I fully expect to regularly hit 600 miles per tank. Once you really start paying attention to how you drive, you will begin to achieve better fuel economy. There really is an art to it.

-Limit your idling. Don't start your car until your seat belt is on and your things are situated in the car. I usually put it in gear about 30 seconds after I start the car.

-Plan your route and stops. For me, there are 3 ways for me to go to work. Once I changed my route a little, I saw an increase in mpg because of the other things that also fell into place.

-Look far ahead and anticipate. If you drive the same route to work, you will learn patterns. You will learn if you go x speed, you can hit the lights, or you will know that a red light will be coming up. Coast to the red light.

-Be 'that guy' who drives the speed limit and stay in the right lane so people can go around you. If you are coasting to a stoplight, let others go around you. Be ready for the dreaded stare at the red light, because you will likely see the person who flew around you at the stoplight sitting next to you. :rolleyes:

-Unless you have a lot of downhills, the cruise control is your friend. Use it all of the time and learn how to play with it.

-Use drafts, let the car in front of you move the air.

-Keep your car in great shape. Some people will use the max psi on the sidewall of the tire, I just use the factory recommended PSI as indicated by the door placard. I also use 6-8oz of Power Service additive every other fuel up. Little air dams and such that tend to begin to sag need to be zip tied or screwed back up. Also, if it doesn't belong in your car, don't keep it in your car. Weight is key here and it all adds up.

-Use the meters in your car. The real time MPG and the average MPG I have found to be fairly accurate. I keep my display set to average MPG and try to get it as high as possible on every trip. I also reset my trip odometer at every fill up so I can watch my miles climb.

These things might not mean much, but they all add up and will cost you nothing to do. If you really pay attention to your driving, your MPG will increase and achieving better fuel economy will soon become a game. Also, keep track of your fuel economy on paper, fuelly, or an excel spreadsheet.
 

LogicBomb

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
SoCal
TDI
2014 Passat
I used to think this way about my Jetta and now that I have learned how to achieve great FE, it will be difficult to replace. -There was a day when I couldn't get over 450 miles on a tank to save my life. Now I'm bummed out to not hit 525 and once I get my Green Diesel tune on the car, I fully expect to regularly hit 600 miles per tank. Once you really start paying attention to how you drive, you will begin to achieve better fuel economy. There really is an art to it.
-Limit your idling. Don't start your car until your seat belt is on and your things are situated in the car. I usually put it in gear about 30 seconds after I start the car.
-Plan your route and stops. For me, there are 3 ways for me to go to work. Once I changed my route a little, I saw an increase in mpg because of the other things that also fell into place.
-Look far ahead and anticipate. If you drive the same route to work, you will learn patterns. You will learn if you go x speed, you can hit the lights, or you will know that a red light will be coming up. Coast to the red light.
-Be 'that guy' who drives the speed limit and stay in the right lane so people can go around you. If you are coasting to a stoplight, let others go around you. Be ready for the dreaded stare at the red light, because you will likely see the person who flew around you at the stoplight sitting next to you. :rolleyes:
-Unless you have a lot of downhills, the cruise control is your friend. Use it all of the time and learn how to play with it.
-Use drafts, let the car in front of you move the air.
-Keep your car in great shape. Some people will use the max psi on the sidewall of the tire, I just use the factory recommended PSI as indicated by the door placard. I also use 6-8oz of Power Service additive every other fuel up. Little air dams and such that tend to begin to sag need to be zip tied or screwed back up. Also, if it doesn't belong in your car, don't keep it in your car. Weight is key here and it all adds up.
-Use the meters in your car. The real time MPG and the average MPG I have found to be fairly accurate. I keep my display set to average MPG and try to get it as high as possible on every trip. I also reset my trip odometer at every fill up so I can watch my miles climb.
These things might not mean much, but they all add up and will cost you nothing to do. If you really pay attention to your driving, your MPG will increase and achieving better fuel economy will soon become a game. Also, keep track of your fuel economy on paper, fuelly, or an excel spreadsheet.

There's a few other variables, ambient temp, head winds, and fuel quality. All can drastically alter MPG figures.
 

applejacks

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Location
Indiana
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI
There will always be variables to chasing fuel economy and I also have variables to my driving conditions. Today I will have an almost 40 degree air change between my morning commute and my evening commute.

The point is, you can do things to improve your fuel economy.
 

Mike91326

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Location
Los Angeles, CA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
My nightmare scenario occurred today...my 2010 Jetta TDI started having some hesitation and then then the engine started really becoming choppy. The "Service Now" and glow plug light came on. I pulled over immediately and turned the car off...so, what do you do? It will still crank, I'm pretty sure I could drive another 1/3 mile if need be. I'm thinking about towing it to my house, buying a Honda and waiting for buyback details. I could haul it to the dealership and drive it up and turn over the keys...Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I don't want a VW dealer to run a diagnosis on it in case it is something catastrophic...
Those are the symptoms my Jetta had when the HPFP failed. How many miles do you have on your car. I believe the HPFP is covered to 120K on the 09's and 10's so you should have it checked out.
 

AlexNJ

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Location
New Jersey
TDI
MK7 2015 Golf TDI SEL DSG (sold back to VW 12/2016)
(...)These things might not mean much, but they all add up and will cost you nothing to do. If you really pay attention to your driving, your MPG will increase and achieving better fuel economy will soon become a game. Also, keep track of your fuel economy on paper, fuelly, or an excel spreadsheet.
All things I've been doing and, when they all come together, yield quite an improvement in MPG. While I can't control the weather, I can certainly control how I drive and, by so doing, have been able to get better fuel economy. This in Central New Jersey, land of perpetual bad traffic and thus a real challenge to driving strategically.

I mentioned to my salesman a few months after buying my MK7 Golf how driving it was making me a better driver. Sure, gassers can benefit from these tips too, but one of the reasons I bought the diesel was for the fuel economy so it's been fun learning what works to get the most out of it. Which is why I hope whatever "fix" is in store for the MK7 Golfs doesn't significantly hurt fuel economy.
 

dmcdon2851

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Location
Lebanon, Ohio
TDI
2015 VW Passat TDI SEL Premium
My nightmare scenario occurred today...my 2010 Jetta TDI started having some hesitation and then then the engine started really becoming choppy. The "Service Now" and glow plug light came on. I pulled over immediately and turned the car off...so, what do you do? It will still crank, I'm pretty sure I could drive another 1/3 mile if need be. I'm thinking about towing it to my house, buying a Honda and waiting for buyback details. I could haul it to the dealership and drive it up and turn over the keys...Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I don't want a VW dealer to run a diagnosis on it in case it is something catastrophic...
Something is terribly wrong with your moral compass. :( If you don't see that, your ethics are non existent.
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Bad comparison to tobacco. Those who smoke make the choice to smoke. Now if somebody dies from second hand smoke exposure.... this is an entirely different scenario.
We cannot choose what air we are breathing. There is a reason for the limits on NOX, and the reason isn't to keep VW TDI's off the road.
I will take high NOx from emissions cheating TDIs any day and have LOWER emissions in the other 4 categories of regulated emissions (GHG, HC, VOCs, PM), instead of any gasser with lower NOx and at least an order of magnitude HIGHER emissions in those 4 categories.

It is only NOx that is out of spec from emissions cheating TDIs. All other regulated emissions are well below limits and not a concern. This was noted in the studies which uncovered VW's cheat. There is an interaction between NOx and VOCs which can cause ambient ozone levels to increase, and therefore good reason to regulate NOx levels. However NOx is also involved in both the creation and destruction of ozone levels, depending on the amount of VOCs present.

I seriously doubt your breathing problems are due to NOx alone, something you can't see or smell. I'm no expert but I suspect you are getting bothered by hydrocarbons (HC), particulates (PM), and volatile organic compounds (VOCs) more than anything else.

All cars pollute, so pick your poison.

Have fun! :)
 
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bubbagumpshrimp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Location
Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI
Nothing new.

A federal judge overseeing lawsuits in Volkswagen's emissions scandal says the automaker and attorneys for vehicle owners are on target to meet a June deadline for a final settlement.

Senior U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer said Tuesday that the sides have made substantial progress toward a deal for nearly half a million polluting Volkswagens in the U.S.

Breyer announced a tentative agreement last month that would give owners the option of having Volkswagen buy back their vehicles or repair them.

He didn't provide additional details about the ongoing talks. VW, the U.S. Department of Justice and attorneys for vehicle owners have until June 21 to file a final settlement with the court.

Many questions remain unanswered, including how much money owners can expect in a buyback and how much additional compensation beyond repairs and buybacks they'll receive.
http://abcnews.go.com/International...ubstantial-progress-volkswagen-talks-39336861
 

PJ1

Member
Joined
May 24, 2016
Location
Southeast
TDI
Jetta
Something is terribly wrong with your moral compass. :( If you don't see that, your ethics are non existent.
Excuse me? I have a fixed replacement schedule on my vehicle, which was disrupted by VW and VW alone. My VW resale value plummeted due to factors well outside of my control and those factors were done with someone else's criminal intent. I am now stuck, about to pay rental car fees, as I look for another vehicle. VW and VW alone is the reason I am not already in a different vehicle, for which I can thank dieselgate.

Had someone else's criminal intent not occurred, I'd be driving a low mileage and relatively new vehicle and not be 'stuck' with a vehicle worth considerably less than it should be. I do not want to spend 100's, if not 1000X's of dollars for a repair that may be moot if I take a buyout AS I INTENDED, and ASAP to get me into my intended replacement and back on my replacement schedule. The thing will crank, it will drive. I am not throwing anymore bad money into something I have intended, all along, to get rid of almost a year ago.

I did not put myself in this situation.
 
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romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Excuse me? I have a fixed replacement schedule on my vehicle, which was disrupted by VW and VW alone. My VW resale value plummeted due to factors well outside of my control and those factors were done with someone else's criminal intent. I am now stuck, about to pay rental car fees, as I look for another vehicle?

Had someone else's criminal intent not occurred, I'd be driving a low mileage and relatively new vehicle. I would not be 'stuck in this situation' due to their negligence. I do not want to spend 100's, if not 1000X's of dollars for a repair that may be moot if I take a buyout AS I INTENDED, and ASAP to get me into my intended replacement? The thing will crank, it will drive. I am not throwing anymore bad money into something I have intended, all along, to get rid of.

I did not put myself in this situation.
Isn't the HPFP now on an extended warranty? If so, it shouldn't cost you anything.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Not all power is coal power. I don't see how you can ascribe a number to EV's..... Note too there are more and more alternate energy sources being added to the grid. Near me they are building a large off shore wind farm. If and EV plugs into that then there are zero emissions.
The axe to grind isn't against diesels. It is against fossil fuels.
Only if the your energy provider has agreed to buy power from that wind farm, and at what price?

Looks like National grid can fork over their customers money at 0.24/kwhr or roughly 3 times the "normal" generation supply rate. Wonder what that would work out for cost per mile.

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150817/NEWS/150819383

http://www.theenergydaily.com/open/Rhode-Island-PUC-Dumps-Offshore-Wind-PPA-As-Too-Pricey_4220/

I live 1 mile from a 3.3MW hydro electric station, but no way in heck do I claim that my home is hydro powered
 
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dgoodhue

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Location
Framingham, MA
TDI
'14 6MT JSW
My nightmare scenario occurred today...my 2010 Jetta TDI started having some hesitation and then then the engine started really becoming choppy. The "Service Now" and glow plug light came on. I pulled over immediately and turned the car off...so, what do you do? It will still crank, I'm pretty sure I could drive another 1/3 mile if need be. I'm thinking about towing it to my house, buying a Honda and waiting for buyback details. I could haul it to the dealership and drive it up and turn over the keys...Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I don't want a VW dealer to run a diagnosis on it in case it is something catastrophic...
Do you have any remaining money from your dealer gift cards to diagnose the problem? Obviously you don't want to spent $1000's to fix the car if your planning on trading it in on a buyback, but it could something not too expensive to fix.
 
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