Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[k^2]

Nice! I too will only accept those names from my wife! A few on here have drank just a bit too much of the "VW cool-aid" and they're missing the whole point of this scandal.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, should have to change your ownership experience due to VW's lies and cheating. Even something as simple as an extra DEF fill every 4k is not acceptable. I've owned several VW's and I love the brand, but they can kindly go "eff" themselves if any part of this scandal impacts the ownership of my Tdi.

And in my opinion you are becoming too hysterical. Don't politicians make false promises all the time? Don't they mismanage our tax dollars? Don't other corporation overstate the value of their products? People seem not to get pissed of about that, to the degree they are pissed at VW. Sure VW deliberately lied but that will cause only minor inconvenience in your life. Should you get compensated yes. Free addblue as for as long you own your car and some money for additional time you spend on filling the addblue tank, or if you really don't like the car anymore a buyback at prescandal fair market value. That's fair in my opinion.

As for me as much as I like driving the TDI what irks me way more about VW is the reliability of their cars. That for me has a way more impact that the fact that car contaminates more than officially stated. I guess my world should be ending because I bought into the advertising of legendary German quality.

At the end of the day VW is a faceless corporation. Its CEO's that lied have so much money in their pockets that they don't have to worry about their future, and some of them have already quit. It is the rank and file employees who fill get punished most by this (layoffs, no pay raises).

(Disclaimer neither I or any member of my family works for VW)

 

[Phil5651]

I got a call from the service department on my questionnaire. They did not give me a loaner as the other owner promised, had to sit for 2.5 hrs waiting for the oil change, rotate tires and what every they did oh, yes the greasy hand prints (corn silk interor) on the driver side door post were FREE. They promised me FREE AdBlue @ 20K.... The Good thing is they can NEVER do a software update without my permission per service tech. IF and when the software fix comes out will get my first Tune right after or find someone that will change it back. I have a AUTOSCAN done before taking to dealer.
FYI I'm 68 years old done all my oil changes since being a Hot Rodder .. 56 Chevy 327, 4 speed and 411 rear ...later changed to quick change. Nova's didnt like my boat beating them back in the day. Sold it and bought my 1st VW at AJ Peirson Orlando in 68 for cash, wish I still had it.

 

[fredthe]

That pre-mix is uses ethanol-free gasoline. A lot of 2-strokes can't use E10 much less the new E15 that is starting to be mandated. How many local stations carry ethanol-free gasoline?

I normally mix my own, but this spring my string trimmer didn't want to start (likely due to old fuel). 6 bucks spent on a can of pre-mix fixed the problem. Since it has stabalizer and is ethanol free I'll probably toss the rest of the can in in the fall. Cheap solution to what can be an expensive problem.

 

[laminated]

I keep a pair of $2 gloves for filling diesel....just to avoid any diesel stuck on the dispenser handles from getting on to my hands....diesel stink doesn't go away that easily.....may be a pair of gloves for def fluid handling may help.....sorry for adding to the list of items

have a bottle of the alcohol based hand sanitizer with you,, the alcohol wicks fuel off your hands if u pump without gloves.. but $2 is cheap insurance..

 

[pkhoury]

What's the hassle? People seem to make a much bigger deal out of it than it really is.

I'm getting around 15k miles between DEF fillups in my BMW X5 35d. I DIY and it's just like filling the windshield washer fluid reservoir except the total DEF capacity is 5.95 gallons. DEF is around $4/gallon and I can get it just about everywhere including Walmart* and local auto parts stores. It's really not a big deal at all.

Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is DEF is DEF is DEF...is DEF. AdBlue is DEF. It all the same and made to an industry standard and used worldwide. DEF is 32.5% urea and 67.5% de-ionized water.

Adding adblue 12 times a year is a hassle?

Is breathing a hassle for you as well?

Why not just pick it up at Wal-Mart as needed or get it when you get the oil for an oil change?

Personally, I think those who complain about filling it up would've been better off buying a Toyota or Hyundai. The windshield wiper fluid probably never gets refilled on their cars either, because "it's such a hassle." Probably the same people who also never learned how to change a flat tire.

 

[pkhoury]

I normally mix my own, but this spring my string trimmer didn't want to start (likely due to old fuel). 6 bucks spent on a can of pre-mix fixed the problem. Since it has stabalizer and is ethanol free I'll probably toss the rest of the can in in the fall. Cheap solution to what can be an expensive problem.

Very hard to find, but I'm finding they do exist in agricultural areas. Thanks for reminding me - there is a place that sells it about 50 miles from here for about 6-7 bucks a gallon, so I can stock up. Best thing to do would be call around (sure beats paying $20/gallon at Home Depot/Lowes).

 

[pkhoury]

I'm calling BS on that. I am in and out of plenty of those forgettable rental turd bombs, they are plastic laden noisy pieces of crap.

And Pontiac is gone. Good riddance, just a Chevy with a beak.

The turd time bomb everyone's carrying now are the Dodge Multiair engines. Total garbage. They make driving a Toyota automatic look fun. Takes the 9 speed transmission forever to switch gears when you punch it, just to maintain 75 going up an incline. You couldn't GIVE me one of those POS cars.

 

[ZippyNH]

Very hard to find, but I'm finding they do exist in agricultural areas. Thanks for reminding me - there is a place that sells it about 50 miles from here for about 6-7 bucks a gallon, so I can stock up. Best thing to do would be call around (sure beats paying $20/gallon at Home Depot/Lowes).

Most any Marina...
They are NOT required to sell e-10 since they are not selling road fuel....and boats tend towards have more ethanol issues, so most boating places sell ethanol free fuel...about $1 more per gallon seems to common. Bring a 5 gallon can...

 

[ZippyNH]

The turd time bomb everyone's carrying now are the Dodge Multiair engines. Total garbage. They make driving a Toyota automatic look fun. Takes the 9 speed transmission forever to switch gears when you punch it, just to maintain 75 going up an incline. You couldn't GIVE me one of those POS cars.

We lived with a rental Chrysler with that tranny for 28 days.
..sucked....smooth shifts.

But you could still feel it...jumpy at low speeds...hard to drive at creeping speed in or out of a garage where it is very tight....

 

[jhawklver]

Personally, I think those who complain about filling it up would've been better off buying a Toyota or Hyundai. The windshield wiper fluid probably never gets refilled on their cars either, because "it's such a hassle." Probably the same people who also never learned how to change a flat tire.

Personally, I think this is a weird opinion. When the car was bought, this wasn't part of the equation for most people. If I bought a car and due to their fraud, it turned out I needed to refill my wiper fluid 2-3x more than necessary... I wouldn't be happy. I'd live, and I'd do it, but I wouldn't be "ah shucks, this is part of the experience of owning this automaker's car."

All of us could kill and cook our own food too. We don't, because it's more convenient not to.

I know how to change my own tire and have changed plenty. If a company sold me a tire and marketed it to last x amount of miles, and it turns out they lied and I actually had to change a tire 3x that amount... the fact I know how to change it and can do so does not change the fact I'm annoyed at having to do so.

There really is no way around the fact VW's actions at best have caused a hassle to us all - pouring liquid in isn't the largest hassle in the world, but they marketed this car to the masses and frankly the masses aren't going to be cool with it.

 

[Jeta Life]

Handling wise RWD > FWD. That's just my $.02 though. I've never been a fan of the handling characteristics in FWD cars. The only exception to that was a Volve S70 T-5 that I drove years ago.

For most driving situations...there's nothing to get used to. The big difference is if you're really throwing the car into turns hard or driving in inclement weather. You WILL notice the difference between RWD and FWD in those situations.

The ride quality in the E-class MB is just awesome. Even the older ones. I used to drive that '95 E300D from VA to NH on one tank with plenty of fuel to spare (the fuel economy was decent and the tank was HUGE for a car). It was an absolute pleasure to drive on the highway.

E-class Mercedes...in general... are just great cruising cars. My parents have a ~'12 E350 4Matic at the moment. Other than eating tires (the 4Matics do that), that's a great car too.

Even in those older MB...the interior noise is minimal, as they spent more that "three-fitty" on the sound dampening material (yeah...directing that at you VW).

Good stuff Bubba ! Love the MB diesels. Legendary.

I've always been a Mercedes fan of their diesels and will try to find a late 90s 300D for a test drive...just for the heck of it...even if I don't buy it..

I hear you on the pathetic VW sound dampening. What's funny to me is when strangers or distant cousins take a ride and feel the shake, rattle and hum of the torque and think the thing is about to fall apart.

They're like...is your car...okay ? I smile and say...it's torque...

That's what I'd personally do. But like other posters suggested, other older diesels do have the problem of deferred or improper maintenance. I got lucky, and my Golf was relatively well maintained, although the last oil change was 5W30 (dumped that out and put in 5W40 yesterday, thinking of the camshaft), and I think I have an EGR leak (that gets deleted on Tuesday).

If you do get something older, learn from my mistakes - don't buy something with NO service history. Although I do EVERYTHING on time for my JSW, I don't personally keep records, but also have no plans to ever sell it. If I did, I'd keep religious records. Anything older without a service history, and you're just asking for trouble (especially anything related to timing belts/chains past their service life).



You think that feels good? Try it with even a Stage 1 tune and it makes a world of difference (while still keeping stock emissions).

I made that mistake once (no repair history) with a 2004 Volvo S80 2.5T with AWD which turned out to be a ticking time bomb with really expensive repairs.

I have no idea what I'll do with this TDI...way too expensive for me to maintain so far. But on the flip side..love the ride...and it's been problem free for a while...hope it stays that way.

I guess there are worse vices than spending money on cars.

 

[nucklehead]

That pre-mix is uses ethanol-free gasoline. A lot of 2-strokes can't use E10 much less the new E15 that is starting to be mandated. How many local stations carry ethanol-free gasoline?

Most any Marina...
They are NOT required to sell e-10 since they are not selling road fuel....and boats tend towards have more ethanol issues, so most boating places sell ethanol free fuel...about $1 more per gallon seems to common. Bring a 5 gallon can...

I don't know about the laws in other states but in Washington State we still have a few ethanol free stations. I have one about a mile away - their mid-grade is ethanol-free. Its all I use in my 71 Ghia and the Suzuki as well as my powered mower and wheeled string trimmer and a 3200w emergency generator. You may find ethanol-free gas is available near you if you visit this web site.

 

[TDILeo]

Any Benz or Bimmers you recommnend as far as reliability ?

I thought those old Benz diesels held up pretty well, did you have a bad experience with yours ?

I'm not sure what I'll get next. Have to start researching and test driving.

MB E300D video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0eD65ZuG8U

I've been checking out a couple W123 early 80s MB 240 diesel sedans. I've no illusions about comparing performance to a CR TDI, but they are pretty sturdy vehicles that do have decent fuel economy.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Def is sold here at most royal farms at the pump. It's $2.73 a gallon. It is a poor location for frequent fill ups though, all trucks have an external fill up so it's not in the passenger compartment when it inevitably spills, but I don't think any amount of def is going to make them compliant.

 

[Bisoned]

And in my opinion you are becoming too hysterical. Don't politicians make false promises all the time? Don't they mismanage our tax dollars? Don't other corporation overstate the value of their products? People seem not to get pissed of about that, to the degree they are pissed at VW. Sure VW deliberately lied but that will cause only minor inconvenience in your life. Should you get compensated yes. Free addblue as for as long you own your car and some money for additional time you spend on filling the addblue tank, or if you really don't like the car anymore a buyback at prescandal fair market value. That's fair in my opinion.

As for me as much as I like driving the TDI what irks me way more about VW is the reliability of their cars. That for me has a way more impact that the fact that car contaminates more than officially stated. I guess my world should be ending because I bought into the advertising of legendary German quality.

At the end of the day VW is a faceless corporation. Its CEO's that lied have so much money in their pockets that they don't have to worry about their future, and some of them have already quit. It is the rank and file employees who fill get punished most by this (layoffs, no pay raises).

(Disclaimer neither I or any member of my family works for VW)

How is his post hysterical? We were lied to. We paid extra $$ based on the lies of a corporation, who thought they could buy off American regulators.

Personally I loved the idea of the diesel Passat. Awesome range, class leading legroom, decent performance, etc.......

When I was shopping for my VW I had read reports where the vehicle was getting over 50 mpg. It seemed like a car with no compromises. Then I find out I was duped. VW seemed to be doing the right thing. They put up their website for information about the cars. Goodwill package.... then...... nothing, for months, nothing from VW to the customers.

Yet they are in full scale retreat and denial mode on the corporate level, even going as far as saying they didn't lie. And we shouldn't be pissed off?

And no, I don't care about the employees being hurt. They should blame the executives who decided to create an advertising campaign based on lies. how about workers for other companies who might have lost their jobs due to their company not selling cars that VW sold instead. Cars that were sold based on lies. In the US alone, 500K cars, and 11MM worldwide.

These employees were paid bonuses in the past based in part on the 11MM diesels fraudulently sold worldwide. Had I known the extra $3K I paid based on this fraud would help pay bonuses I would NEVER have bought the car.

 

[peterdaniel]

the masses aren't going to be cool with it.

I would NEVER take anything the "masses" say or do, seriously.

 

[pkhoury]

I made that mistake once (no repair history) with a 2004 Volvo S80 2.5T with AWD which turned out to be a ticking time bomb with really expensive repairs.

Mine was buying an ALH Beetle with only alignment records without checking what I should have. Plus, the battery was dead and it wouldn't start (injection pump seals were shot, among other things). Resold the car, but took a $400 hit.

I have no idea what I'll do with this TDI...way too expensive for me to maintain so far. But on the flip side..love the ride...and it's been problem free for a while...hope it stays that way.

I guess there are worse vices than spending money on cars.

True, like hookers, coke, heroin, alcohol, or gambling debts. Even when I bought my Golf, I knew maintenance wasn't going to be cheap. But I bought it as a reliable, pleasureful ride. I can't really drive the Saab much anyways, as it leaks gas (and I can smell it from my house, where the Saab is parked about 50 feet away).

 

[Bisoned]

Personally, I think those who complain about filling it up would've been better off buying a Toyota or Hyundai. The windshield wiper fluid probably never gets refilled on their cars either, because "it's such a hassle." Probably the same people who also never learned how to change a flat tire.

Filling once every 10K miles is not a hassle. However, if the "fix" increases adblue consumption and one has to replace every 5K miles or fewer, yes that is a hassle to some.

To some DIYers doing this is easy. How about grandmas who own a TDI? Soccer moms? Most wouldn't know the first thing about how to do this. Where to buy the DEF. Where to pour it. They were told they would never have to. adblue will be topped off every 10K miles when brought in for service.

I know my MIL and wife would have no idea how to add DEF. Wouldn't know the first thing about it. What to buy. Where to pour it. What it actually does. Another person I know who owns a tdi is an attorney. He never touched a tool in his life. Doesn't have to, he can pay somebody to do it. But now he has to haul his car to a dealership every time the tank needs filling. and he lives 50 miles from a dealership.

 

[pkhoury]

We lived with a rental Chrysler with that tranny for 28 days.
..sucked....smooth shifts.

But you could still feel it...jumpy at low speeds...hard to drive at creeping speed in or out of a garage where it is very tight....

Fuel economy in the Chrysler 200 I had for 5 days was pretty good. 32-33mpg on a FLAT (keyword FLAT here) surface. Even a slight incline and the car is hunting for gears like crazy, given the speed limit on the single lane road I was on is 75mph, and I was doing about 77.

The Jeep rental I have right now is worse. I don't know what the point of the 9th gear is, because it won't even engage at 65 (RPMs are too low). And the electronic parking brakes suck. Forgot it was on, and got the tires smoking as I dragged them about 100 feet before I realized the brakes were still engaged.

 

[pkhoury]

Filling once every 10K miles is not a hassle. However, if the "fix" increases adblue consumption and one has to replace every 5K miles or fewer, yes that is a hassle to some.

While I agree that every 3-5K is a PITA, what about truckers? Most of them hardly qualify as mechanics, and yet they still know how to fill up DEF. Of course, it's easier for them, since their DEF orifice is on the exterior of the truck.

To some DIYers doing this is easy. How about grandmas who own a TDI? Soccer moms? Most wouldn't know the first thing about how to do this. Where to buy the DEF. Where to pour it. They were told they would never have to. adblue will be topped off every 10K miles when brought in for service.

I know my MIL and wife would have no idea how to add DEF. Wouldn't know the first thing about it. What to buy. Where to pour it. What it actually does. Another person I know who owns a tdi is an attorney. He never touched a tool in his life. Doesn't have to, he can pay somebody to do it. But now he has to haul his car to a dealership every time the tank needs filling. and he lives 50 miles from a dealership.

I'll be honest, I don't feel sorry for them. There are educated consumers, and well, those who don't really educate themselves about their purchases. I have a female friend who owns a 2003 Jetta TDI. She's saddled with $3500 in repairs, including a TB change. Never read the manual. Didn't do any maintenance except 10K oil changes. Now she's paying the price. And... I don't feel the least bit sorry for her.

Granted, most of my family members research the crap out of things before making a purchase, especially for a big ticket item like a vehicle. I know I lurked on here for a while before joining this forum and purchasing my TDI. Except for early DPF failures (since that wasn't a big thing in 2010 when I joined), I knew what I was getting into.

 

[BigWorm]

Man hurry up 21st. I need to know whats going on. I'd like to ditch my passat and go with a touareg

 

[thanksimgruven]

Man hurry up 21st. I need to know whats going on. I'd like to ditch my passat and go with a touareg

maybe they're waiting on results of the 3.0 fix in order to snowball it in with the 2.0, which they maybe already have decided upon. should be an update May 19

 

[WolfPack]

Personally, I think those who complain about filling it up would've been better off buying a Toyota or Hyundai. The windshield wiper fluid probably never gets refilled on their cars either, because "it's such a hassle." Probably the same people who also never learned how to change a flat tire.

Terrible analogy, comparing the Adblue to windshield wiper fluid. I've never seen a vw not start due to a low windshield wiper fluid level. I'd like to think of it as vw reducing the oil change interval which directly impacts ownership cost by usage.

 

[Chris Thomas]

Def

I would not want any refit done to my car. As for me VW's terrible response is the last straw to this whole nightmare. Did drive the new Malibu and will drive the hybrid version when it comes out. Checked out the website and it will get 45 mpg, on RUG, should start in cold weather, no DPF, or HPFP to worry about. Will miss the passing power, unless, the hybrid has a mode like tesla's ludicrous mode.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

VW WILL pay 100% of the Attorney fees

Got this up date last night from HMG

.... ya think the amount will be reduced by the same "fee" the sharks get?

... Example ... If the Judge want to give us (say) $5,000 he "might"

award $2,500 to the sharks and $2,500 to the cars owners.

If this comes ---- I will be asking all the CAS naysayers to eat a bite of crow

Yes I am talking about the $3.00 coupon and a car wash reward guys and gals.

I do not like the bloody sharks --- but what ever we get is better than what vw did for affected car owners. BTW vw $uck$

----------------------------------


Dear Client,

Thank you again for the opportunity to assist you with your claims against Volkswagen.

As the following video explains in more detail regarding the potential class action settlement in the California federal court,

we have learned that you will not be expected to pay attorney's fees out of what Volkswagen offers you.

In other words, your offer will not be reduced by attorney's fees and you will not receive less than someone who did not hire a lawyer.

You will, however, still receive the full benefit of legal representation and counsel.

Please watch the video for additional explanation.

Sincerely,
Hilliard Munoz Gonzales LLP

 

[Vidgamer]

I would not want any refit done to my car. As for me VW's terrible response is the last straw to this whole nightmare. Did drive the new Malibu and will drive the hybrid version when it comes out. Checked out the website and it will get 45 mpg, on RUG, should start in cold weather, no DPF, or HPFP to worry about. Will miss the passing power, unless, the hybrid has a mode like tesla's ludicrous mode.

I did a quick search, and it looks like it is faster than my Golf TDI. Doubt the handling is as nice, though. But for those who want a big family car and are more concerned about mileage, it looks like it could be a nice option.

Someone was talking about the great mileage they got, around 50mpg. I can get into the 40s on highway, no problem, but usually 42, maybe 45 on a stretch where I'm not going as fast (under 65?). But I'm doing all city/backroads these days, and averaging more like 34mpg. Still pretty good, but not quite 50mpg.

Given a retrofit, and if performance and/or MPG is reduced, it's still a nice car, but it takes away a lot of its uniqueness.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Personally, I think those who complain about filling it up would've been better off buying a Toyota or Hyundai. The windshield wiper fluid probably never gets refilled on their cars either, because "it's such a hassle." Probably the same people who also never learned how to change a flat tire.

.... as a young person working in my Father's Texaco Service Station for about 8 years, I did my part of "tire" work.

.... and we had to know how to do it for all the cars on the road

... as a Senior ... now is the time to have first class tires on the buggy; I buy 4 NEW tires at about 35% tread life still on the tires.

... And pay AAA --- only used AAA one time for a flat. AAA was so fast Wife was only late (about) 25 minutes to work

.... Additionally used AAA for a new battery ... same thing for wife ... about on time to work.

... Wife even used her AAA card for (2) two of her bosses and co-workers on THEIR cars.

.... I bought my AAA from a 15 year friend (sadly now passed) -- all this is legal as the AAA car insurance is for the person NOT THE CAR.

I do not own stock in AAA and do not work there.

 

[dmarsingill]

When I was shopping for my VW I had read reports where the vehicle was getting over 50 mpg.

This argument will never hold up. The sticker on the window states what they are rated for. Reports on the internet do not count. I rarely get over the 41mpg that mine is rated for on the highway.

Donald

 

[740GLE]

I saw that the CAR gas/diesel station across from the Quirk VW in Manchester NH, near the mall, now has DEF at the pump....
First time I have seen pumps at a non-truck stop type of place.

I've filled up my 2.5 gallon jug at the Pilot up in Bow on RT3, around $7 it was 2.79/gal. You do have to pre pay and don't get to many people asking for 2.5 gallons of the stuff.


Topped up the Passat in January/Feb, may top up again this week as 5K have clicked off the clock and we have a 1200 mile road trip coming up.

 

[Zmanzz]

Bisoned is spot on. VW did not make filling the tank easy at all. regardless of the size of the funnel you try and use there will be a mess to clean up. The fill point is in the side of the trunk tucked under the R rear fender. It has a dime size fill hole. Most containers I have tried to use are at least 2 gallons in size and require 2 hands to carefully poor the aromatic liquid into a small funnel that unless you have a second person to hold it while you poor will become dislodged and then the clean up begins. If you hit the whole without spilling don't start doing the happy dance just yet. There is no warning that the tank is reaching the full point. Then you have to disassemble the trunk and clean everything under the mat down to the spare tire. Now I know why I had to take the car back after every free oil change and get the trunk clean from all of the crystals.
Filling every 10K Maybe ok, but a huge PITA. every 3K to 5K NFW. I have better use of my time. Dealer cost for 2.5 gal jug is 10$. To have them put it in. It will cost 100$.

Do yourself a favor and find a truck stop with it at the pump......if you can pump your own fuel you can fill the DEF tank. It took me all of 45 seconds and another minute to go pay the clerck.