Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[GSwag]

Guys, I'm being opportunistic here and considering buying a used 2014 Passat tdi SE for 15k. 60 k miles on it. Is this a good deal? What do you guys think if VW will be paying equivalent to what I'm paying? Will they buyout the car at first place since as I understand the 2014 has urea system in place and is fixable. I need a car anyways and don't mind keeping it but when I can get a new Jetta 1.4 for 15.5 then is it worth the hassle of getting used tdi just for sake of using it for free for 4 months or so considering VW will buy it in August? Dilemma

If you could wait, I would. My dealer said they have tons of 2016's they can't sell. There could be a glut of the cars on the market, especially given we don't even know where the buy back cars will go.

Right now, they are still accessed at a depressed value. I have a 13 with 50k miles and was offered 9k on trade. So I would say 15k is too much, especially given all the unknowns. But that's just my opinion

 

[tobianogreg]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-hire-mckinsey-to-address-diesel-cheat-crisis

No doubt a step in the right direction. The company couldn't have handled this worse if they tried.

This may be in response to the yet-to-be released internal investigation implying that things might get worse for VW. ?

 

[bizzle]

According to my VW dealer all eGolf's are being recalled, and there's a voluntary "do not sell" in effect. Evidently eGolf's turn themselves off without warning, quite unlike the cheat that performs like clockwork

Why would there be a voluntary do not sell in effect at your dealership?

It's a simple software update

 

[CHawk]

The more I think about this, the more I come around too, "why would this be so hard for any state?" Think about it. Everything is computerized. I do my registration renewals all on line. I just have to get the cars inspected 90 days before. If it is a diesel and I haven't gotten it fixed, the state doesn't send the registration and I don't get new stickers. Not an issue unless I get stopped for something else or get in an accident. Then the state can take my car since the insurance company doesn't have to cover a non-registered car. Add to that, in NC at least, we have personal property tax on our vehicles which is now part of the registration renewal. So no current registration means you didn't pay your taxes. (insert sound of cell door closing)

Within the statutes of every state, the DMV (or equivalent) will have authority to approve or deny registration to a vehicle based on a set of criteria. From an earlier post, apparently the California DMV can deny registration to a vehicle with an outstanding emissions recall. This may not be true of other states. Some posts earlier stating that the Feds could deny, for example, highway funds to states that allow affected TDIs to be re-registered, are missing the point of statutory authority, that some states may simply not have the regulations in place to grant their DMVs that power. If the regulations are not in place, there is a process whereby any rulemaking takes place, which may include legislative action and comment periods. All this takes time, which could make this type of action moot--for every year that passes, fewer affected TDIs will be on the road, and the ones that are on the road will become relegated to "second vehicle" status in the household where they'll be driven less and less.

In addition, I still don't think that the regulators want to be seen as the bad guys in this, making you give up your car. Maybe the final settlement has VW agreeing to a minimum percentage of vehicles fixed or bought back, and they'll have to pay more fines if their target isn't reached.

 

[Jeta Life]

As of 6/21 VW should also stop collecting payments on vehicles financed thru them if they are planning on dragging their feet with the buyout option. There should be no reason to keep paying for a car if you are going to accept the buyout. I know unicorns don't exist. But I can see VW dragging this out for another year.

Would somebody please explain to me why our TDI's are often referred to as "UNICORNS" ? I'm about to debadge my VW with UNICORN emblems, my daughters would love that !

Really, I think it depends on each state and the discretion of each.



Good point. Maybe we should set him up on a blind date with geargrrl.

LOL on your second point, was thinking along the same lines. PK ...you need a date...stop milking those goats...squeeze something else...you pervert

you know I'm kidding...

unicorn emblems:
https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...X&ved=0ahUKEwi8jL_HgbDMAhVHWD4KHQ2fDa8QsAQIKg

 

[AmandaSch]

Yup. They'll propose some sort of scheme. i.e. If your last name ends in 'A', you can sell your car back in September. I'll probably still be driving this car come Christmas .

Gosh I picture, that one commercial, forget who or what its for, but it says if your last name starts between A and M call now to receiver your free gift, but never seen where N through Z can call in, which means we'd be in trouble, if that's how VW did , Lol.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Question for folks swapping for SUVs, vans, trucks...

Did you make a mistake when you bought a TDI for it's fuel economy, or are you now about to mistakenly swap your TDI for a gas hog assuming fuel prices will stay low?

 

[pkhoury]

LOL on your second point, was thinking along the same lines. PK ...you need a date...stop milking those goats...squeeze something else...you pervert

you know I'm kidding...

https://www.google.com/search?q=unicorn+car+emblems&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS656US657&espv=2&biw=2160&bih=1104&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8jL_HgbDMAhVHWD4KHQ2fDa8QsAQIKg

I actually use a machine. And most of the women in my county and surrounding counties are either like geargrrl, or have "summer teeth." Summer here, summer there. No thanks!

 

[gerry100]

This may have already been said, but in todays' WSJ opinion section our whole situation is laid out pretty well. ( sorry I can't post as link, my sub expired I think).

We are not polluting the atmosphere by driving the TDI. In fact displacing gasser miles is a net benefit.

NOx standards were set absurdly low by a government agency reflexively expanding its power and control.

The sin here is that the EPA authority was challenged, and for that VW needs to pay dearly and publicly. We'll get some of that.

I'll chill while the giant bureaucracies and lawyers wrestle this out.

 

[jhawklver]

Did you make a mistake when you bought a TDI for it's fuel economy, or are you now about to mistakenly swap your TDI for a gas hog assuming fuel prices will stay low?

I have no clue what I'll be replacing it with if I go that route. That said, I never think about fuel prices specifically when buying a car. They fluctuate too much for such a big and long-term purchase.

What I do is I have a criteria based on how I will use the vehicle. When I bought my TDI, I was driving 100-200 miles per day for work. Clearly MPG was high on my list of criteria. Only mistake I made in buying it was trusting the company that sold it to me not to commit fraud.

Life changes, and I'm now driving a commute of around 8 miles each way. Not likely to get back into a job I'm driving that much. Given this, MPG will move down on my criteria. I'll likely keep it in mind as I like not paying for gas every week... but I'll likely find a balance because I have no desire to drive a Prius.

Love the judging and condescending tone though. It would be even better if you could have some intelligent thought backing it up.

 

[Jeta Life]

I actually use a machine. And most of the women in my county and surrounding counties are either like geargrrl, or have "summer teeth." Summer here, summer there. No thanks!

You use a machine for what ? Is it inflatable ?

You went from California bikini girls to country bumpkins.

Reminds me of a photographer turned building manager who used to say he went from photographing cleavage to plumbers buttcracks.

 

[akjdouglass]

I joined this forum to say that my TDI Jetta is a worthless piece of crap. Can't wait to get rid of it, and this buyback is an omen. Been in the shop more times than I can count. I knew VW had terrible reliability, but not this bad. I can't wait to drop this clunker off and get me a shiny new Infinity SUV. The poison we are breathing in is also not a good thing. Thousands lost and lesson learned.

You, and countless others, joined the wrong forum.

 

[nucklehead]

Makes sense to me. I waited until early January to claim the goodwill package. I received it in 13 days flat. AFAIK the quickest of anyone on that 'How long did it take..." thread. I was probably 'mid-pack' - just as you are saying.

My logic for turning TDI in for a buyback which you are going to purchase a new VW is that you don't want to be in the 1st wave or the last wave. Everyone rushing in the get rid of their 'problem' or waiting to the last minute to get every last mile in could be a nightmare. The demand will be likely at high during those times and could raise the purchase price of the new VW (or you may also have limited selection). VW may put in a consumer friendly discount that will avoid this.

 

[thanksimgruven]

There were honest ways for VW to challenge NOx standards if that's what they wanted to do. Incorporating the software they did into cars was in fact lying, cheating, and stealing as we know, and they have admitted. Resulting in a legal and bureaucratic rats nest of epic proportion. RIP environment.

On the subject of pollution, more reading: http://www.orlandoadvocate.com/13064-2/

 

[durundal]

WOW! So I go from my two diesels to a prius and an outback. Outback might be do able but have to deal with loosing about 10 mpg. Prius? No way. My wife would sooner go back to the CR-V and loose about 15 mpg than the prius. Her coworker has one and anytime my wife rides in it she notices the lack of power. I really had to laugh about the Kia Soul being a replacement for the beetle. The latest generation of the beetle must really suck if that was the best they could offer against it.

As someone with a 2009 JSW and 2015 Prius I am pretty well convinced that have about the same amount of power in normal situations. Both can blip out surprisingly quickly from 0-30, then take their time from 30-60+ and this is born out by the similar 0-60 times. Not having turbo lag and instantaneous torque from the electric motor is nice, as is the mileage bump. Has your wife actually driven it (not with the "Eco" button pressed, which just remaps the throttle to make it less responsive at the low end for those who have trouble maintaining an even pedal modulation apparently)? My understanding is that the gen 2 Prius from 2004-2009 was not quick or substantially better mileage, which was one of the factors in getting the 2009 JSW but the gen 3 from 2010-2015 fixed a bunch of oddities, boosted the power output and improved mileage and reportedly the gen 4 out this year does more of that.

 

[ericy]

A story in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/b...-showed-how-to-foil-emissions-tests.html?_r=0

FRANKFURT — A PowerPoint presentation was prepared by a top technology executive at Volkswagen in 2006, laying out in detail how the automaker could cheat on emissions tests in the United States.

The presentation has been discovered as part of the continuing investigations into Volkswagen, according to two people who have seen the document and who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the legal action against the company. It provides the most direct link yet to the genesis of the deception at Volkswagen, which admitted late last year that 11 million vehicles worldwide were equipped with software to cheat on tests that measured pollution in emissions.

Volkswagen engineers at the company’s research and development complex in Wolfsburg realized that the emissions equipment in their newest diesel engine would wear out too quickly if it were calibrated to meet American pollution standards.

 

[SteveW928]

Makes sense to me. I waited until early January to claim the goodwill package. I received it in 13 days flat. AFAIK the quickest of anyone on that 'How long did it take..." thread. I was probably 'mid-pack' - just as you are saying.

I suppose I should claim mine soon, huh? I'd been holding off, just in case it would somehow impact my choices. As long as VW comes through with a fair buy-back program (as it sounds like now), I'll be relatively pleased. Or, should I wait until the program is officially announced? I'm not sure if it has an expiration date or not.

 

[Chris]

As someone with a 2009 JSW and 2015 Prius I am pretty well convinced that have about the same amount of power in normal situations. Both can blip out surprisingly quickly from 0-30, then take their time from 30-60+ and this is born out by the similar 0-60 times.

The crowd on Tdiclub won't acknowledge anything positive about the Prius, past or present.
Might as well save your breath.

 

[Jeta Life]

A story in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/b...-showed-how-to-foil-emissions-tests.html?_r=0

nice article underscores so many mistakes VW made before the scandal. While it is all in the past, VW's 2306 service action should of been their turning point, it was not, they kept selling additional cars.

as the article states:

"Mr. Winterkorn received a two-page memo in November 2014 that summarized the technical problems with Volkswagen vehicles in various locations. Plans to recall about 500,000 diesel vehicles in the United States because of the emissions issue were granted a single terse paragraph at the bottom of the second page, according to the memo, which was obtained by The Times.

The emissions problem was not corrected with the recall. And despite the regulators’ growing impatience, Volkswagen did not appear alarmed by the possible consequences."

where are we now ?

not at $100,000,000 like Hyundai-Kia's fine

more like $18,000,000,000

2306 was the red flag. Where was Bernd Gottweis when VW needed him ?

http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/the-man-who-could-have-prevented-dieselgate-vw-recalls-him/

Jack Ewing revealed Bernd's name in a NY Times article a while back, but it is an interesting article.

 

[tomo366]

The crowd on Tdiclub won't acknowledge anything positive about the Prius, past or present.
Might as well save your breath.

That's because there isn't anything positive about the Priapis....

 

[YikeGrymon]

......
On the subject of pollution, more reading: http://www.orlandoadvocate.com/13064-2/

This is all fine, but I still don't get why there's like NO mention anywhere of what effects petrol-powered cars that do comply with all (current) emissions regs have on everything. How many "premature" Murkan deaths might result from those? And what is that number compared with anyway? And especially why there's even less mention of how increased NOx equals less CO2 and other greenhouse gassification.

I guess it's like everything else: People pay attention to what they want to and/or get worked up about what they want to and/or don't know the difference when they're not getting the whole story. Then again, maybe it's just that the regs are the regs are the regs and past that why should anyone GaS what the actual issue is. Dunno.

Sort of infuriating, the level of selectivity behind the outrage. Or is it just ignorance? I guess actually it is. Hmm.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Houston Chronical

http://tablet.olivesoftware.com/Oli...edArticle.aspx?href=HHC/2016/04/27&id=Ar02707

 

[razorrod]

I would not trade VW TDi for any gas 2.0 T, due the mass failures on HPFP. It's instance, the cam follower breaks a part and flat surface falls to the engine. I have seen my myself.

 

[durundal]

That's because there isn't anything positive about the Priapis....

Better that than to have a TDImpotence! Hey-ooooo! And heeeeeere's Johnny!

 

[Jeta Life]

That's because there isn't anything positive about the Priapis....

The exterior of the new Prius looks bizarre, RAV4 Hybrid a much better looking Toyota

 

[Ares]

A story in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/b...-showed-how-to-foil-emissions-tests.html?_r=0
Volkswagen engineers at the company’s research and development complex in Wolfsburg realized that the emissions equipment in their newest diesel engine would wear out too quickly if it were calibrated to meet American pollution standards.

This is why I won't accept any 'fix' without a comprehensive warranty.

It is not feasible to retrofit an emission system they could not implement at inception. The EPA/CARB/Feds may accept a fix. They won't be accountable when parts fail in a few years. Your wallet will. I see a 2nd class action for the dieselgate 'fix' in a few years.

 

[thanksimgruven]

This is all fine, but I still don't get why there's like NO mention anywhere of what effects petrol-powered cars that do comply with all (current) emissions regs have on everything. How many "premature" Murkan deaths might result from those? And what is that number compared with anyway? And especially why there's even less mention of how increased NOx equals less CO2 and other greenhouse gassification.

I guess it's like everything else: People pay attention to what they want to and/or get worked up about what they want to and/or don't know the difference when they're not getting the whole story. Then again, maybe it's just that the regs are the regs are the regs and past that why should anyone GaS what the actual issue is. Dunno.

Sort of infuriating, the level of selectivity behind the outrage. Or is it just ignorance? I guess actually it is. Hmm.

I wouldn't call researchers at Harvard and MIT ignorant. Premature deaths due to gas vehicle emissions were not considered because they haven't been found in violation of EPA established pollution standards and thresholds. So all death accounted for there.

NOx, a brownish, poisonous gas, once emitted reacts with VOC's in the atmosphere creating what we know as smog on a hot summer day. Compared to CO2 emissions which have the chance of being sequestered (think plants) before making it's way to the stratosphere where (both gases) reflect heat back onto the the planet. Making it warmer?

Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, simply transformed from one state to another.

VW could potentially buy tradable pollution permits to offset what they have done/will continue to do. Is that better use of EPA regs and government? So many ways this could go.

 

[SteveW928]

where are we now ?
not at $100,000,000 like Hyundai-Kia's fine
more like $18,000,000,000

I sure hope (though doubtful) this becomes a case-study carefully examined at every business school on at least one outcome of our modern business short-term-thinking baloney.

The more I read about this, the more I keep thinking... why should anyone ever buy a VW again? And, then the reality sets in that the rest are doing it too, VW just got caught.

If people thought like companies... It's kind of like... hmm, if I go into that jewelry store and steal that diamond ring (worth $1M), and they only put me in jail for a month... time to put on the cat-burglar suit!

And especially why there's even less mention of how increased NOx equals less CO2 and other greenhouse gassification.

Yea, as a AGW skeptic, that kind of ticks me off. In Europe, it seems they were somewhat willing to trade-off a real pollutant, NOx, in order to reduce CO2.... and that's somehow OK because.... global warming scare. Won't make much difference what whether the earth is hotter or colder in the future if we all die from other various maladies.

 

[shovelhd]

They'll never do this. If you wanted all the heat off of VW and onto someone else, this is a great way of going about it.

Weren't you one of those that stated emphatically that there would be no buybacks? Multiple times?

It's very possible in CARB states.

 

[SteveW928]

This is why I won't accept any 'fix' without a comprehensive warranty.
It is not feasible to retrofit an emission system they could not implement at inception. The EPA/CARB/Feds may accept a fix. They won't be accountable when parts fail in a few years. Your wallet will. I see a 2nd class action for the dieselgate 'fix' in a few years.

For sure! There's no way in heck I'll be keeping the car unless they can roll back just the last couple of firmware updates (it hasn't run the same since, and fuel economy has dropped!) and I can keep driving it that way until it dies (i.e.: EPA, etc wouldn't care). It's a no-win for us unless there is a fair buy-back program at minimum.