Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
I joined this forum to say that my TDI Jetta is a worthless piece of crap. Can't wait to get rid of it, and this buyback is an omen. Been in the shop more times than I can count. I knew VW had terrible reliability, but not this bad. I can't wait to drop this clunker off and get me a shiny new Infinity SUV. The poison we are breathing in is also not a good thing. Thousands lost and lesson learned.
Well, you are upset about ONE VW...
Well it's Spring and I won't drive with the windows down. Refuse to let my kids breathe that stuff in on a daily basis. So, combined with my repair history, it has to go. I actually can't wait to get rid of it and counting the days. Whatever they give me for it will be more than I can get today from anyone.
Well I do understand the repair history issues some folks have had with VWs...
Why am I thinking RajPaj is a troll? Unlike everyone else here, doesn't mention the year of his TDI, and claims he knew VW had terrible reliability. If this is the case, why the hell would you buy a car from a manufacturer that you know to be unreliable? Sounds like another goldstein.
 

Adkhunter1590

Active member
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Location
Albany, NY
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
I kinda wonder what happens to the price of diesel if VW pulls 500,000 cars off the road (even though we're a blip compared to the trucking industry). Still...paid $1.89 for a fill-up today.


Absolutely nothing. TDIs aren't even a blip on the radar. Thousands of big rigs go in and out of service every day. And with them getting 6-8 mpg at best, they burn a hell of a lot more fuel than we do. Just think of how much fuel one cargo ship consumes on a trip. A cargo ship burns about 4200 gallons PER hour while at sea. At 42 mpg that would take you a little over 176kmi to burn that much fuel. Do you still think there will be anyone noticing?
 

Jeta Life

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
Bad is an understatement. When I spoke to a VW enthusiast about the scandal he remarked what Jack Ewing stated in the above referenced article.

Namely that VW incorrectly assumed due to Hyundai-Kia's fine they would be able to absorb a loss but misjudged the amount they would be fined...grossly misjudged.

Also yesterday I asked a car guy what he thought of the scandal and he remarked how in Europe emissions are not as scrutinized as evidenced by VWs "flow transformer" fix of over 11 million diesels.

VWs lucky they only sold about 1/2 million here, had diesels sold like in Europe it would of probably been an even larger catastrophe.
 

AlexNJ

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Location
New Jersey
TDI
MK7 2015 Golf TDI SEL DSG (sold back to VW 12/2016)
I don't know if it only happens to me, but when I get on my Golf I get a sense of adventure, joy, love for the car, I look ahead to road trips in it and a bunch of good stuff (...)
I feel exactly the same way. Prompted by some of the posts here, I've been doing a little looking around online to see what vehicles are out on the market that I'd consider were I in the market again. At the price point I can afford, I just don't see anything that matches the combination of fuel economy, practicality and above all simple joy to drive that my '15 Golf TDI offers (now if VW would bring the GTE to the US, I'd be tempted, maybe). After all, there's a reason I chose this car in the first place and it has never disappointed me. Driving here in New Jersey, the most densely populated state in the US, doesn't offer many driving pleasures but this car has made moving ahead in traffic and blasting past other cars a genuine joy. So I'll read the forum and frown, wait to see what happens in a few months, while smiling every time I get into my car and feel its torquey goodness.
 

Jeta Life

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
Driving through route 22 in Hillside I noticed diesel actually cheaper than regular $1.83 vs $1.87, busy truck stop.

The GSP is usually more laid back than the turnpike. 78 and 287 are way too crowded, 1&9 been under construction for a while. The best stretch for me is on toll free 1 & 9 when it's off peak and planes fly landing or leaving Newark.
 

dmarsingill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Dacula, GA
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
Simple thought on a recall,, when they recall a stroller,a baby seat, a toaster etc, When have they said,, We will give you a pro rated value because its used?? Never,, They screwed up. they have defrauded you.
Those are safety recalls.....

Donald
 

JDenyer232

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Maine
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI S
As much as it pains me, if VW pays off my loan and gives me a little extra I'm walking away. It's a shame really as I really like the car, but I'm afraid VW's future in the US is uncertain and that may have an impact on parts availability. Looks like I'll be looking at a prius as fuel economy is a very important criteria for me, not looking forward to a prius but it would give me the same fuel economy that I'm getting now but that car has no soul:D Every car I have bought with the exception of my wife's Subaru has been fuel efficient. Even though fuel prices are low now, we all know they are gonna go back up. I cracks me up when fuel prices are high and SUV owners are on the news complaining that it costs a hundred bucks to fill their tank. I do feel bad for the pickup owners that need their trucks for work. Oh well I guess we'll see what comes out in June.
 

MichVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Location
Michigan
TDI
2014 JSW DSG. 2011 Golf TDI 4DR 6MT
I need the cargo carrying capability of a Sportswagon or at least a Golf hatch AND 40 MPG. I keep my cars for around 200k miles, so when fuel prices return to the "normal" $4 a gallon, my current JSW will consume around $20k worth of fuel. The TSI Sportswagon will carry the same load and get close to 30 MPG, but over 200k miles that's an extra expense of $7k that dwarfs the rumored $5k VW may be offering.

So unless you can get a new TDI to replace your old one after a buyback, hang on to your TDI!
Stop with your senseless banter... I think the entire forum is getting sick and tired of you. Like other member's, I too would have put you on "ignore" long ago.... But, I just wait to see what nonsense you will say next. You do not disappoint. That is for sure.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
I'm guessing that we'll find out more on June 21st since there's a gag order in place until then.
Perhaps, but the judge did say that the 3.0L was running somewhat behind the 2.0L talks. You might get an idea what the plan is, but I suspect that they will get a reaction to the 2.0L first, then see what the 3.0L will end up with.

They could make many happy and round up a bunch of CPO 5.0L from 2008 and bring them over. You like the 3.0L face melting torque, try the 5.0L.:eek:
 

krebsy75

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Location
Chester County, Pa.
TDI
2012 Sportwagen DSG; 2014 Golf 6MT; 2014 Sportwagen DSG; 2015 Golf SEL DSG
RajPaj is most definitely a troll. A quick online search reveals that they are active in Honda Accord forums.

In one discussion this person argued that the Accord is the best "sport sedan" ever made. I think we can safely ignore this guy lol.

Why am I thinking RajPaj is a troll? Unlike everyone else here, doesn't mention the year of his TDI, and claims he knew VW had terrible reliability. If this is the case, why the hell would you buy a car from a manufacturer that you know to be unreliable? Sounds like another goldstein.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Driving through route 22 in Hillside I noticed diesel actually cheaper than regular $1.83 vs $1.87, busy truck stop.

The GSP is usually more laid back than the turnpike. 78 and 287 are way too crowded, 1&9 been under construction for a while. The best stretch for me is on toll free 1 & 9 when it's off peak and planes fly landing or leaving Newark.

Similar (prices) here in Tulsa ~~ $1.85 and $1.87 ~~ BUT Diesel on top
 

mjLyco

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
I need the cargo carrying capability of a Sportswagon or at least a Golf hatch AND 40 MPG. I keep my cars for around 200k miles, so when fuel prices return to the "normal" $4 a gallon, my current JSW will consume around $20k worth of fuel. The TSI Sportswagon will carry the same load and get close to 30 MPG, but over 200k miles that's an extra expense of $7k that dwarfs the rumored $5k VW may be offering.
So unless you can get a new TDI to replace your old one after a buyback, hang on to your TDI!
Except...
  • Diesel usually costs more than regular gasoline
  • TDIs have a higher maintenance cost vs TSIs
  • TDIs emissions components are more expensive than TSIs
  • TDIs MSRP is higher thant TSIs
So no.
 

CTDCRD

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
500,000 vehicles returned to VW in two years?

Even if only half of the owners return their vehicles, that is a huge parking/storage/shipping problem. I know it was discussed earlier but I can't find that insightful post. But perhaps this might be a solution for VW.

After the checks arrive I could be talked into leasing back said vehicle while VW works out the details for accepting the car.

$50 a month w/ no mileage charge. Seems it would save a lot of storage fees for them and relieve stress on the dealers or handlers parking facilities. The deal would be such that you would have minimal notice for returning and then possibly repurchase after the 'fix'.
 

TDINJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2002
Location
Neptune, NJ
TDI
No longer own one.
My sentiments exactly! I live on the Jersey Shore and work in Newark. I've driven that commute now for more than 10 years, all of it in TDI's. Even when the traffic is bad, I still enjoy it in my TDI. You meant the the Golf GTD right? I wish!!!

I feel exactly the same way. Prompted by some of the posts here, I've been doing a little looking around online to see what vehicles are out on the market that I'd consider were I in the market again. At the price point I can afford, I just don't see anything that matches the combination of fuel economy, practicality and above all simple joy to drive that my '15 Golf TDI offers (now if VW would bring the GTE to the US, I'd be tempted, maybe). After all, there's a reason I chose this car in the first place and it has never disappointed me. Driving here in New Jersey, the most densely populated state in the US, doesn't offer many driving pleasures but this car has made moving ahead in traffic and blasting past other cars a genuine joy. So I'll read the forum and frown, wait to see what happens in a few months, while smiling every time I get into my car and feel its torquey goodness.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Regarding foreknowledge of unreliable VW cars

Regarding foreknowledge of unreliable VW cars, I owned a 2003 GSL Golf gasser, and it was a fine ride in every way.

Great resale ~~ did the oil changes at Jiffy Lube ~~ one Wal mart battery.

Sold it because I wanted an AUTO Trans. Regarding my DSG ~~ I really want to own a DSG for the rest of my years:D

But doing some research on 2016 VW golf gassers I think DSL is not available in the cheaper trims. :mad:

Sister warned me about VW "up Keep" ~~ but as I drive so few miles, figured little could go wrong ~~ with the 36 month Bumper to Bumper & the 60 month drive train

6-7 weeks after I got it the STUFF hit the fan

.... After June 21 ~~ will decide ~~ Do not want the "FIX" but will then see what the best offer is.
 

mjLyco

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
I feel exactly the same way. Prompted by some of the posts here, I've been doing a little looking around online to see what vehicles are out on the market that I'd consider were I in the market again. At the price point I can afford, I just don't see anything that matches the combination of fuel economy, practicality and above all simple joy to drive that my '15 Golf TDI offers (now if VW would bring the GTE to the US, I'd be tempted, maybe). After all, there's a reason I chose this car in the first place and it has never disappointed me. Driving here in New Jersey, the most densely populated state in the US, doesn't offer many driving pleasures but this car has made moving ahead in traffic and blasting past other cars a genuine joy. So I'll read the forum and frown, wait to see what happens in a few months, while smiling every time I get into my car and feel its torquey goodness.
I feel the same way but remember, the car is so good because it's a fairy tale. It cheats to exist. It's very hard to compare a car that runs with more power and efficiency by turning off emissions components to a bunch of compliant vehicles. Not to mention this country's disdain for nice hatchbacks and love of SUVs. It's impossible to find a car that's better in every way.

We're going to have to give something up because of VWs fraud. If you want driving dynamics, you'll have to give up MPG. If you want MPG, you'll have to give up driving dynamics. We also might have to give up the hatchback, space, or luxuries like felt lined glove boxes.

The whole situation really stinks. Pick a car you like, but know nothing will compare. Mad? If VW doesn't offer us enough. Sue them. That's my plan.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
How the cheat mode is achieved is at about 55 minutes into the video. It was logged on a dyno, drive the cycle, SCR dose is correct, get out of the bound, dose is calculated correctly, but falls into the alternative mode, and way under dose generated.

What is really interesting is the link to the CCC presentation where a couple of researchers reverse engineered the code in the ECU, locating how the cheat was implemented, then were able to play with what was happening to the car while in cheat mode, or out of cheat mode.

Also shown, the mode is entered on a set number of conditions, mainly set by the driving cycle matching the drive cycle of the test. So all these unplug this or that sensor may be part of the unlock criteria, but the underlying enabler is the time vs speed pattern that has to match.

https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7331-the_exhaust_emissions_scandal_dieselgate

The presentation video, understand this is from a security conference, although not black hat or def-con, so there is much less drinking going on with the presenters. Seeing the video fills in a lot of the blanks on the slide set.
 

AlexNJ

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Location
New Jersey
TDI
MK7 2015 Golf TDI SEL DSG (sold back to VW 12/2016)
You meant the the Golf GTD right? I wish!!!
Actually, I was thinking of this, the Golf GTE. Of course, we likely won't get it in the US and I do have to wonder if I'd take a chance on another VW after this debacle. But it's an intriguing vehicle for those looking for fuel economy in a hybrid.
 

Torque17

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
New York
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
Well I do understand the repair history issues some folks have had with VWs. There's been some epic threads about the absolute worst service that can be had at a vw dealership. Some are fairly recent. Others have a great experience at their local dealership.
What I don't understand is that you blame your car for the pollution in the air coming into your car :confused:
If your car is moving the exhaust is behind you and it will not come into your car unless you are stopped at a red light and have a tail wind. The worst smell I've smelled is a bit of a "swimming pool" smell. The only time I worry about outside air is if some clapped out old car/truck is ahead of me. I've had to roll up windows and put the hvac on recerc a few times. Guess what? They were mostly gas powered burning oil or just pla in running rich or catless.
Fact is that a motorcycle emits more bad for you things then our cars do stock.
Sorry you have a bad experience with VW. As I said before, sometimes you get a lemon. It could happen with ANY car manufacturer.
The number of bad/repair/failure occurrences is higher than normal. Yes, the car is fun but repair frequency, failure frequency is high and expensive.

Albeit, don't buy a VW with a Honda mentality.....while you have it enjoy/use it to fullest. .....:)
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
I feel the same way but remember, the car is so good because it's a fairy tale. It cheats to exist. It's very hard to compare a car that runs with more power and efficiency by turning off emissions components to a bunch of compliant vehicles. Not to mention this country's disdain for nice hatchbacks and love of SUVs. It's impossible to find a car that's better in every way.

We're going to have to give something up because of VWs fraud. If you want driving dynamics, you'll have to give up MPG. If you want MPG, you'll have to give up driving dynamics. We also might have to give up the hatchback, space, or luxuries like felt lined glove boxes.

The whole situation really stinks. Pick a car you like, but know nothing will compare. Mad? If VW doesn't offer us enough. Sue them. That's my plan.
You don't necessarily have to give up anything. If you like the car, you could simply KEEP the car and keep driving it and maintain it and get the most use out of it. It's still the same car it was before the scandal broke. Keep it away from VW dealers at all costs. DIY routine maintenance and go to a TDIclub guru for major stuff.

Have fun! :)
 

mjLyco

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
You don't necessarily have to give up anything. If you like the car, you could simply KEEP the car and keep driving it and maintain it and get the most use out of it. It's still the same car it was before the scandal broke. Keep it away from VW dealers at all costs. DIY routine maintenance and go to a TDIclub guru for major stuff.
Have fun! :)
Not true for me. I don't want to drive an out of compliance vehicle. I would have to get it fixed which will reduce power and MPG; bringing it more in line with other vehicles. DIY maintenance and "major stuff" on a TSI is still cheaper than on a TDI.

Also, the airbag is possibly deadly in my car so what.. Drive mine and take the gamble? Wait for an airbag recall? Buy a 2015 Golf TDI that nobody knows for sure if we're going to be able to keep anyway or what a fix would do to it?

Those of us who wish to be compliant, or live in states where it's mandated (mine) will have to give up something.

I already bought my replacement. Just waiting on my check for fraud compensation and for VW to take back this thing.
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
Here is my today's thought on the thing...
I need tires desperately so I am going to pay a little more and get a set through the VW dealer with part of the two VW dealer cards I have.
That $1000 will have to go back to the dealers anyway at some time.
That puts new tires on the 2009 JSW (250,000 miles). The 2013 JSW (60,000 miles) already had new tires last year.
I understand that owners will have two years to return the cars and the question is does the compensation remain the same during that time?
If so I plan to drive the wheels off them and get all of the good out of them up to that time and the take the money and buy a new car.
It the "investment" does not decline during the buy back period I plan too maximize the utility of the cars I already have. In two years they may be importing ot building the new Tiguan that I might want to replace the JSWs.
VW might wise up and provide a car other than the TDI JSW I would want to drive.
We looked hard at the 2015-6 Tiguan before we bought a lightly used 2013 JSW.
I think that the dealer still has that very car in stock!
We found the Tiguan "tippy" and less powerful.
The GSW had the CD in the glove box and it had a "shiny" dash and wad lower (old people you know).
Maybe in two years + VW will have a car for us.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Can you elaborate as I have yet to find definitive data that supports your claim. Do you have a link or some technical info? Would love to hear more about this. Thanks in advance.
That's because there is no definitive answer, yet. Nothing has been officially released on what the fixes may be for either engine. I think we will see that info the end of June. VW then has a month to convince everyone (DOJ/EPA/CARB/FTC) that those fixes work and the owners will be content.
 

mjLyco

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
Here is my today's thought on the thing...
I need tires desperately so I am going to pay a little more and get a set through the VW dealer with part of the two VW dealer cards I have.
That $1000 will have to go back to the dealers anyway at some time.
That puts new tires on the 2009 JSW (250,000 miles). The 2013 JSW (60,000 miles) already had new tires last year.
I understand that owners will have two years to return the cars and the question is does the compensation remain the same during that time?
If so I plan to drive the wheels off them and get all of the good out of them up to that time and the take the money and buy a new car.
It the "investment" does not decline during the buy back period I plan too maximize the utility of the cars I already have. In two years they may be importing ot building the new Tiguan that I might want to replace the JSWs.
VW might wise up and provide a car other than the TDI JSW I would want to drive.
We looked hard at the 2015-6 Tiguan before we bought a lightly used 2013 JSW.
I think that the dealer still has that very car in stock!
We found the Tiguan "tippy" and less powerful.
The GSW had the CD in the glove box and it had a "shiny" dash and wad lower (old people you know).
Maybe in two years + VW will have a car for us.
There are no details yet. The only official word is that EPA, CARB, & VW agreed 'in principle' to a fix & buyback plan. We don't know what the fix will be or how the buyback prices will be calculated. Also, it's 'in principle' so if testing of the fix shows a major issue, it might revert to buyback only. We just don't know yet and won't know until June (at the earliest) when the gag order is lifted. But even that June date might be pushed back. That 2 years to decide thing is just a rumor based on a few bloggers common sense judgement. It makes sense, but might not happen.
 
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newbeetleman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2004
Location
NE
TDI
none
You don't necessarily have to give up anything. If you like the car, you could simply KEEP the car and keep driving it and maintain it and get the most use out of it. It's still the same car it was before the scandal broke. Keep it away from VW dealers at all costs. DIY routine maintenance and go to a TDIclub guru for major stuff.

Have fun! :)

You can? Can you point me to where this was said? Everything I have read leads me to believe they want these cars off the road.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
There are no details yet. The only official word is that EPA, CARB, & VW agreed 'in principle' to a fix & buyback plan. We don't know what the fix will be or how the buyback prices will be calculated. Also, it's 'in principle' so if testing of the fix shows a major issue, it might revert to buyback only. We just don't know yet and won't know until June (at the earliest) when the gag order is lifted. But even that June date might be pushed back. That 2 years to decide thing is just a rumor based on a few bloggers common sense judgement. It makes sense, but might not happen.

.... correct it may not happen (2 years) ~~~ back to common sense 500,000 cars all can't be done in a (say) month
 
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