Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[John_Nutt]

I think many many current VW diesel owners will be leaving VW totally. Interesting that the assumption in this article is that diesel owners will all be shopping for new cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It does not imply buy backs. Eventually everyone of us is going to need a new car, it just says when we do need a new car it likely won't be a Volkswagen.

 

[TCBinaflash]

I think the FTC suit was the gov's trump card to make VW buyback since there was no complete fix for all generations. Hard to get out of a fraud charge unless they do something to remove harm from the buyers.
It's down to negotiating amounts, I think.

Agree, I think that is what this boiling down to.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Ranting X 10

[FONT=&quot]What Is the Status of the Investigations?[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The company is conducting an internal investigation of 17 people who may have had knowledge or involvement in the deception. Regulators across the globe are conducting investigations, as are attorneys general in all 50 states. The Justice Department, for its part, filed a civil lawsuit in January, and VW also faces lawsuits from owners seeking compensation for the decreased resale value of their cars.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Role of VW’s Unusual Corporate Culture[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The 78-year-old company’s unusual culture — confident, cutthroat and insular — has come under scrutiny as potentially enabling Volkswagen’s lawbreaking behavior. For decades the company, which was founded by the [FONT=&quot]xxxxs[/FONT] with the help of Ferdinand Porsche, the inventor of the Beetle, has been controlled by a tight-knit troika of a billionaire family (Mr. Porsche’s descendants), a German state government (Lower Saxony) and powerful labor unions.[/FONT]


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-diesel-emissions-scandal-explained.html?_r=0


Ranting X 10

American's did not deserve dieselgate

 

[gerry100]

Yeah, knowing what 2-3 hours before the rest makes a difference after 7 months?

and if you don't speak legalese it may be even more useless

 

[gerry100]

reset time.

I've got a car that I like that has given us economical and reliable service.

VW has given me $500 cash and will pay for a new set of tires.

Chill until Thursday

 

[jdyno718]

Sure it is, but based on the actual info out there it's based in reality. I think it's a level headed assessment.

I don't think there is a lot of "posturing" going on at this point. Guilt was admitted ,progress to an agreement was cited. Extension was granted to conclude the process. With the caveat that if now agreement is met- we go to bench trial.

The odds if an actual trial takes place that VW has to buyback these vehicles is nearly 100% for some generation owners if not all.

The EPA is posturing. They have it in their mind that these cars, with up to 40x NOX emissions are destroying the environment, even though NOX destroys methane, the second largest green house gas, and think these cars must be off the roads. A buyback is the only option for that as the EPA has little enforcement to get consumers to comply with a recall.

I am one person who, if it is a recall, will not comply. I am incredibly happy with my TDI and don't want to limit its performance or fuel economy. If it is a buyback, then it would have to be of substantial net value for me to even consider it.

Every other car manufacture does the same thing that VW did. Hell Mercedes developed this engine with VW and no one is coming after them, yet...

 

[kitarkus]

I was gassing up today and noticed the other diesel pump had a black Jetta TDI with 30 day tags. I asked the gent if he had just bought the car....he was a diesel guy....his father is a diesel guy etc. He said he couldn't resist....just picked up a loaded extremely clean 2013 Jetta TDI with 19K miles for $13K. Ironically I got back in my car and thought "I wonder if he just overpaid".....as I drove off in my JSW that I just paid $28K for 2.5 years ago.

 

[ericy]

He said he couldn't resist....just picked up a loaded extremely clean 2013 Jetta TDI with 19K miles for $13K. Ironically I got back in my car and thought "I wonder if he just overpaid".....as I drove off in my JSW that I just paid $28K for 2.5 years ago.

Anyone else selling ?

 

[ericy]

Yeah, knowing what 2-3 hours before the rest makes a difference after 7 months?

You can count on someone here calling in and posting anything relevant. Or even posting stuff that isn't relevant - that's how this thread got so big.

Saves you the time/trouble of picking up the phone and paying for the service.

 

[autdi]

I was gassing up today and noticed the other diesel pump had a black Jetta TDI with 30 day tags. I asked the gent if he had just bought the car....he was a diesel guy....his father is a diesel guy etc. He said he couldn't resist....just picked up a loaded extremely clean 2013 Jetta TDI with 19K miles for $13K. Ironically I got back in my car and thought "I wonder if he just overpaid".....as I drove off in my JSW that I just paid $28K for 2.5 years ago.

Must hide checkbook to prevent the urge to go get one. A 3 year old car for that price is a steal.

 

[kitarkus]

Must hide checkbook to prevent the urge to go get one. A 3 year old car for that price is a steal.

I completely and totally agree. That said, there is a relatively small handful of buyers actually willing to buy them....even for such a low price.

 

[Armourbl]

I was gassing up today and noticed the other diesel pump had a black Jetta TDI with 30 day tags. I asked the gent if he had just bought the car....he was a diesel guy....his father is a diesel guy etc. He said he couldn't resist....just picked up a loaded extremely clean 2013 Jetta TDI with 19K miles for $13K. Ironically I got back in my car and thought "I wonder if he just overpaid".....as I drove off in my JSW that I just paid $28K for 2.5 years ago.

I paid about the same in January this year for my 2012 Golf with 50k miles. I'm guessing he found one of those few/rare opportunities that most of us never get.

ben

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

VW subordinates afraid to admit failure.

Mr. Piëch, <snip> has acknowledged he was not a typical manager. “Only when a company is in severe difficulty do they let in someone like me,” he wrote. “In normal, calm times I never would have gotten a chance.”


Some critics argue that after 20 years under Mr. Piëch and Mr. Winterkorn, Volkswagen had become a place where subordinates were fearful of contradicting their superiors and were afraid to admit failure. “There is a self-righteousness which led down this terrible path,” said David Bach, a senior lecturer at the Yale School of Management who has followed the Volkswagen case.


Bernd Osterloh, chairman of the Volkswagen workers council, wrote a letter to the staff suggesting flaws in company culture. “We need in the future a climate in which problems aren’t hidden but can be openly communicated to superiors,” he wrote.

No link because it has 77(?) year old pictures of xxxxxs


Do I remember history correctly? Was it Honda? Toyota? Other?

When a production problem came up a single (lowly) line worker could shut down 100% of the line. No Japan junk out the door!

 

[Philpug]

[FONT=&quot]What Is the Status of the Investigations?[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The company is conducting an internal investigation of 17 people who may have had knowledge or involvement in the deception. Regulators across the globe are conducting investigations, as are attorneys general in all 50 states. The Justice Department, for its part, filed a civil lawsuit in January, and VW also faces lawsuits from owners seeking compensation for the decreased resale value of their cars.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Role of VW’s Unusual Corporate Culture[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The 78-year-old company’s unusual culture — confident, cutthroat and insular — has come under scrutiny as potentially enabling Volkswagen’s lawbreaking behavior. For decades the company, which was founded by the [FONT=&quot]xxxxs[/FONT] with the help of Ferdinand Porsche, the inventor of the Beetle, has been controlled by a tight-knit troika of a billionaire family (Mr. Porsche’s descendants), a German state government (Lower Saxony) and powerful labor unions.[/FONT]


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-diesel-emissions-scandal-explained.html?_r=0


Ranting X 10

American's did not deserve dieselgate

The average consumer does not care what happened behind the scenes at this point, they want to be taken care of. VW has it's priorities backwards. You w will be able to get to the bottom of this...in the meantime take care of the owners.

 

[kjclow]

Do I remember history correctly? Was it Honda? Toyota? Other?

When a production problem came up a single (lowly) line worker could shut down 100% of the line. No Japan junk out the door!

Many companies supported that behavior starting in the mid 80s. I remember shutting the lines down at the plant I was doing QC in becasue of an ammonia leak. It made it unbearable to be on the line but not yet unsafe. The production manager tried to read me the riot act and I told him that safety was also part of my job and walked away. Valve was quickly fixed and production started back up within 30 minutes.

 

[MichVW]

Is it Thursday yet?

 

[ericy]

Is it Thursday yet?

Most people look for Fridays, not Thursdays .

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Many companies supported that behavior starting in the mid 80s. I remember shutting the lines down at the plant I was doing QC in becasue of an ammonia leak. It made it unbearable to be on the line but not yet unsafe. The production manager tried to read me the riot act and I told him that safety was also part of my job and walked away. Valve was quickly fixed and production started back up within 30 minutes.

Seems (ford-gm- who ever) finally gave up a little authority on the line.

does any one remember that ford(?) had more cars on the parking lot to be finished singularly than the daily production number?

During that time (and after) it was 100% foreign for me. VW Toyota, Honda and almost one Nissan.

 

[GSwag]

reset time.

I've got a car that I like that has given us economical and reliable service.

VW has given me $500 cash and will pay for a new set of tires.

Chill until Thursday

I have a car that costs a fortune to fix. My life has changed and now need something completely different, however, the value has dropped so, that the $500 Vw gave me covers about 15% of the hit in value it took due to their criminal activity. I'm now stuck with no options except to lose about $5500 on trade in over what the depreciation would have otherwise been.

What do we tell ourselves Thursday when nothing is resolved?

I understand your perspective, however, not all of us have the luxury of waiting however long it takes vw to ignore the customers. I, like you, enjoy my car but the repair bills have wiped out any fuel savings I may have enjoyed. I do enjoy driving it though

 

[TCBinaflash]

The EPA is posturing. They have it in their mind that these cars, with up to 40x NOX emissions are destroying the environment, even though NOX destroys methane, the second largest green house gas, and think these cars must be off the roads. A buyback is the only option for that as the EPA has little enforcement to get consumers to comply with a recall.

I am one person who, if it is a recall, will not comply. I am incredibly happy with my TDI and don't want to limit its performance or fuel economy. If it is a buyback, then it would have to be of substantial net value for me to even consider it.

Every other car manufacture does the same thing that VW did. Hell Mercedes developed this engine with VW and no one is coming after them, yet...

While I understand your opinion and don't disagree with the sentiment. But I believe the EPA has no need to posture in the eyes of the law when it comes to defeat devices and fraud. That is why there is no need for endless debate about the nuance or science of emissions and i'm sure they are not debating that at all.

The issue is non-compliance and VW lying and hiding the truth from government agencies that do protect our environment. And defrauding customers who paid them for a product that does not perform as advertised.

If they don't set a standard on this now it will be ford or Toyota next and be 5 million cars - not 500k which could have significant impact.

That is why they are being so hard on this even if it can't be proven how damaging the real world effect on air quality has been. It's an matter of principle and business practices. All of which VW has failed miserably on.

 

[MrSprdSheet]

What do we tell ourselves Thursday when nothing is resolved?

Sympathies, Brotha. Serious advice, for some, might be to let go and risk that you won't get back the market hit you'll take, right now, for selling. VW will still be liable to you, though I wonder what the legal'ists would think?

It isn't just newer model owners. There's the "maintenance marooned". Some living with a rejection sticker, trying to string out their last days. Money spent on parts, could end up money wasted.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Past CAS results for AUTOs - LINK

In a quick look, found a few VW settlements

CAS(s) did result in (collectively) Billions of $$$$ in fines and pay outs

Many took years to get results.

Involved many many different AUTO makers

Presumably the sharks got the big share

$.02



https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/automotive-settlements/

 

[Mike91326]

Does the judge have the power to overrule a settlement?

Let's say that on Thursday EPA/CARB comes into court and tells the judge that they are not going to require VW to fix the cars because they feel it would be too difficult and costly. Instead they will allow VW to buy NOx credits for every TDI that stays on the road. Can the judge overrule the EPA and state that he wants the cars fixed or off the road so he will not allow VW to buy NOx credits or will this case be done?

 

[kitarkus]

Does the judge have the power to overrule a settlement?
Let's say that on Thursday EPA/CARB comes into court and tells the judge that they are not going to require VW to fix the cars because they feel it would be too difficult and costly. Instead they will allow VW to buy NOx credits for every TDI that stays on the road. Can the judge overrule the EPA and state that he wants the cars fixed or off the road so he will not allow VW to buy NOx credits or will this case be done?

I'm not a lawyer: I would assume that Plaintiffs who have been satisfied by a settlement agreement would withdraw their claim....leaving other Plaintiffs in this multi-plaintiff suit to continue the action. Audti....chime on in here.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Does the judge have the power to overrule a settlement?
Let's say that on Thursday EPA/CARB comes into court and tells the judge that they are not going to require VW to fix the cars because they feel it would be too difficult and costly. Instead they will allow VW to buy NOx credits for every TDI that stays on the road. Can the judge overrule the EPA and state that he wants the cars fixed or off the road so he will not allow VW to buy NOx credits or will this case be done?

That's not going to fly, because it doesn't address the FTC/fraud piece or consumer interests.

The judge is there to facilitate things at this point...not force things. As he's said...it's not his place to just but in and tell the parties how to solve this at this point.

 

[IFRCFI]

What do we tell ourselves Thursday when nothing is resolved?

Suggest you start figuring that out right now. If history is a proxy, Thursday will come and go with NO news or resolution of any kind. Seriously, nothing is going to be revealed on Thursday.

 

[kitarkus]

That's not going to fly, because it doesn't address the FTC/fraud piece or consumer interests.
The judge is there to facilitate things at this point...not force things. As he's said...it's not his place to just but in and tell the parties how to solve this at this point.

I could be wrong....it is my understanding that the FTC lawsuit is a separate filing and separate case not co-mingled with the Judge Breyer case. That said, should VW offer to buy back all vehicles in Judge Breyer's court....FTC would have a tough time proving damages for 'fraud' in the FTC case. Feel free to correct me if I missed that these cases were combined.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Suggest you start figuring that out right now. If history is a proxy, Thursday will come and go with NO news or resolution of any kind. Seriously, nothing is going to be revealed on Thursday.

Yup. As for VW's annual report that's due the end of April...just watch them turn in a "TBD" for their losses, lol.

 

[TCBinaflash]

Does the judge have the power to overrule a settlement?
Let's say that on Thursday EPA/CARB comes into court and tells the judge that they are not going to require VW to fix the cars because they feel it would be too difficult and costly. Instead they will allow VW to buy NOx credits for every TDI that stays on the road. Can the judge overrule the EPA and state that he wants the cars fixed or off the road so he will not allow VW to buy NOx credits or will this case be done?

The EPA could do that. And the judge would be obliged to approve that if both parties are in agreement. But that doesn't settle the FTC case. And that doesn't settle our class action suit. there are 4 parties that need to agree on all of this.

 

[kitarkus]

Suggest you start figuring that out right now. If history is a proxy, Thursday will come and go with NO news or resolution of any kind. Seriously, nothing is going to be revealed on Thursday.

I think we will have some 'news'...but we will not have resolution on Thursday. VW must declare their financials on April 28th. VW also must get their financials in order should they desire the ability to borrow large sums of money from corporate lenders (and they do wish to borrow). I agree with your overall sentiment....but I am hopeful that VW has prepared themselves for the inevitable 'punch in the gut' by now....(if for nothing else) for the sake of the future of VW. We shall see.