Triple Square Sizes?

[Danphoto]

As a relatively new owner just exiting warranty on our '12 JSW, it's time to tool-up. What size triple squares am I likely to encounter during maintenance and repair over 200K miles or so? Thanks in advance!


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[South Coast Guy]

What is a size triple?

 

[30Bones]

You mean torx? I've had a small set from China that's worked great for years, but none I would trust torquing down things.

 

[davebugs]

Triple squares. They also have a different name. NOT Torx or Allen.

Ebay, vendors here, I even got a 4 piece set at Advance Auto.

 

[oilhammer]

XZN, and my set is 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16... I've used them all except the 4.

Here is an example:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=&item_ID=648214&group_ID=682897&store=&dir=catalog

 

[DubFamily]

Search XZN Drivers on amazon; you can get a set in a case for about ~$30-$40. They hold up well also; used them numerous times.

 

[davebugs]

I have a short rather complete Cornwell set off Ebay.

I got a 4 piece almost bit set IIR at Advance when I needed som ein a hurry when dis-assembling a door.

And an old snap-on long one from my air cooled axles - 8mm I believe.

The long ones are nice for things like axles where the boot can be in the way - atleast on the MKIV's, I haven't worked on anything newer than that.

 

[Danphoto]

Great help. Thanks! They're on order. One set skipped the 8mm so it was good to hear that size can come in handy.
Dan

 

[TDIAustin]

What about the Torx? Just search for that name and get a set?

 

[davebugs]

What about the Torx? Just search for that name and get a set?

Been used on seemingly all makes and models for years now.

 

[jetlagmech]

I have the same set XZN100 as amazon but my son found it in his auto parts store catalog.... sizes 4 5 6 8 10 12 14 16. I have used size 12 for removing steering wheel, size 6 for door lock actuator, I understand I need size 16 for brakes which I'm getting close to needing.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

 

[JSWTDI09]

What about the Torx? Just search for that name and get a set?

Torx and Triple Square (XZN) are not the same thing. Torx drivers have 6 "splines" and XZN drivers have 12. Sometimes a torx will work on a triple square bolt (if it is not too tight) but this is not the smart way to work. VW uses XZN bolts all over the place. You should buy the proper tools if you want to remove XZN bolts. VW also used Torx screws in some places. Eventually you will probably want to own XZN bits, metric Allen (Hex) bits, and Torx bits. They are all needed in some places on a VW.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[oilhammer]

Then there are Tamper-proof Torx, with a peg in the middle. Then Torx Plus, with rounded edges, but still 6 points, then.... Tamper-proof Torx Plus, which has a peg in the middle, rounded edges, but only five points!

Gotta love tools....

(anyone mention Polydrive? )

 

[davebugs]

Torx and Triple Square (XZN) are not the same thing. Torx drivers have 6 "splines" and XZN drivers have 12. Sometimes a torx will work on a triple square bolt (if it is not too tight) but this is not the smart way to work. VW uses XZN bolts all over the place. You should buy the proper tools if you want to remove XZN bolts. VW also used Torx screws in some places. Eventually you will probably want to own XZN bits, metric Allen (Hex) bits, and Torx bits. They are all needed in some places on a VW.

Have Fun!

Don

Yep - all 3 sets are needed.

For instance on a MKIV - the AC hoses are allen, the fender liner & skid plate(plastic) and a lot of dash screws are torx.

Axles, seat bolts, door lock mechanism all triple squares.

Those are just examples that come to mind.

Definately get the tools that fit.

You will need all 3 styles. Allen are most common, Torx somewhat common, triple squares not nearly as widely used - or available.

 

[davebugs]

Then there are Tamper-proof Torx, with a peg in the middle. Then Torx Plus, with rounded edges, but still 6 points, then.... Tamper-proof Torx Plus, which has a peg in the middle, rounded edges, but only five points!

Gotta love tools....

(anyone mention Polydrive? )

Good point. If you don' thave any Torx buy the tamper proof ones - they also work as regular Torx(which is what you'll need mostly anyways).

 

[DubFamily]

What about the Torx? Just search for that name and get a set?

XZN (Triple Square) drivers are not the same as Torx drivers.

XZN Drive (Triple square)

The triple square, also known as XZN, is a type of screw drive with 12 equally spaced tips, each with a 90 degree angle. Its name derives from overlaying 3 equal squares to form such a pattern with 12 right-angled tips. Common sizes are 6, 8, 10, and 12 mm. Triple square drives are used in high torque applications, such as cylinder head bolts and drive train components. Triple square fasteners are commonly found on German vehicles such as Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, and Volkswagen.

Hexalobular socket (Torx)

The hexalobular socket screw drive, often referred to by the original proprietary brand name Torx (pronounced "torks") or by the alternate generic name star drive, uses a star-shaped recess in the fastener with six rounded points. It was designed to permit increased torque transfer from the driver to the bit compared to other drive systems. Torx is very popular in the automotive and electronics industries because of resistance to cam out and extended bit life, as well as reduced operator fatigue by minimizing the need to bear down on the drive tool to prevent cam out.

 

[oilhammer]

XZN has gotten more common with the newer models.

 

[cevans]

There are only 9 sizes of triple square bits, and you can get a complete set of triple square bits available for $35. Metalnerd has individual bits available too if you don't want a set.

Triple squares are used on your car for the:
Rear Brake Caliper Carrier (must be removed when doing rear rotors)
Inner and Outer Axle Bolts
Head Bolts
Some Mounting & Accessory Bracket Bolts
Injector Hold-Downs

Et al. Each generation of VW seems to use more and more triple squares...at first I hated them, but not I've grown to really appreciate how much easier they hold onto a bit. It is vital, though, that you get a triple square bit fully seated before applying torque. All the triple square bolts I have ever seen strip are because the user was either trying to torque the bolt at an angle or didn't have the bit fully seated.

 

[oilhammer]

Good point. If you don' thave any Torx buy the tamper proof ones - they also work as regular Torx(which is what you'll need mostly anyways).

Actually, they don't. That peg hole, when not actually on a peg, allows the bit to cave in on itself. Snap On (and others) have bulletins about this.

 

[davebugs]

Actually, they don't. That peg hole, when not actually on a peg, allows the bit to cave in on itself. Snap On (and others) have bulletins about this.

I haven't had that problem yet.

Thanks.

If I have this problem perhaps I'll recognize it.

 

[oilhammer]

I would imagine on the smaller stuff, you won't find any fasteners that are tight enough to be of concern, but I know some of the larger stuff like T50, T60, etc. they can be REALLY tight.

I've never had the problem either, because I of course own both sets. But I know the tool guys don't like to warrant Tamper-proof Torx stuff that has the tip broken off.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Torx and Triple Square (XZN) are not the same thing. Torx drivers have 6 "splines" and XZN drivers have 12. Sometimes a torx will work on a triple square bolt (if it is not too tight) but this is not the smart way to work. VW uses XZN bolts all over the place. You should buy the proper tools if you want to remove XZN bolts. VW also used Torx screws in some places. Eventually you will probably want to own XZN bits, metric Allen (Hex) bits, and Torx bits. They are all needed in some places on a VW.

Have Fun!

Don

THANK YOU!!

I was having an aneurysm over here because i didn't have time to answer properly.

 

[TDIAustin]

Thanks for all the info guys. What do you guys think of this set which seems to have all three types of tools and to be reasonably complete?

http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-40-Piec...e=UTF8&qid=1365640119&sr=8-4&keywords=xzn+set

Am I missing something? There are 6 piece sets that cost more than this 40 piece set. I am just an occasional mechanic and only need enough tools to do the basic required maintenance, etc. so I'm not looking for heavy duty. Thanks for any input.

 

[TDIAustin]

I got no input here to the above ^^^^ questions although I did on another site so I went ahead and bought this set. Pretty nice set and really cheap although I don't quite understand the purpose of both long and short bits since a socket wrench extension could be used with the short bits. Anyway, having all three types in one set is cool and I can add some additional bits if necessary, like the XZN 4, for example.

 

[oilhammer]

Some fasteners you simply cannot access with the short bits. You NEED the long ones. Some head bolts come to mind that are like that.

 

[davebugs]

I have a short rather complete Cornwell set off Ebay.

I got a 4 piece almost bit set IIR at Advance when I needed som ein a hurry when dis-assembling a door.

And an old snap-on long one from my air cooled axles - 8mm I believe.

The long ones are nice for things like axles where the boot can be in the way - atleast on the MKIV's, I haven't worked on anything newer than that.

There are times as pointed out that there isn't room for the socket part of the triple square close to the fastener you are undoing.

I'd guess 80% of the time a regular triple square is able to work. For a few things they literally won't fit - the bit you won't be able to get the whole way to the fastener.

Sometimes I'ts jsut much easier and less likely to damage - like axle bolts.

But a short set is much better than nothing.

 

[TDIAustin]

"There are times as pointed out that there isn't room for the socket part of the triple square close to the fastener you are undoing.

I'd guess 80% of the time a regular triple square is able to work. For a few things they literally won't fit - the bit you won't be able to get the whole way to the fastener."

Well then, I'm glad I got both the long and the short bits in this set and hope I don't run into many of those super tight fasteners that are that tough to get to.