The One Way Clutch on the Alternator Let Go/seized Up

[Smokerr]

It was a fun day, it sounded just a bit odd but nothing concerning. Made a 45 mile run, two stops, then back 35 miles, two stops and the second the accessory belt let go (no alternator, no Power steering, yes brakes)

That weird clutch pulley on the alternator seized up, move forward 2 inches, took out the accessory belt.

Is this worth a new pulley alone or is the alternator worn out at 130,000 and worth replacing both?

 

[oilhammer]

If it is a Valeo unit, I'd just replace it with a Bosch and a new INA pulley. If it is already a Bosch unit, and is not otherwise damaged, I'd just put a new pulley on.

That bearing in that pulley seized up a while ago. You got lucky that neglecting it and letting it let go like that did not do much, much more damage. Always check the operation of that alternator pulley at every single service. Easy, takes 10 seconds and a pocket screwdriver. That "sounded a bit odd but nothing concerning" costs people cylinder heads or worse, engines on these cars. The accessory belt can get thrown off and pulled between the pulley and the front of the engine, and can derail the timing belt. Bad news. Count your blessings, buy a lottery ticket.

 

[PickleRick]

INA 07K903119C, is that the correct part number? And does it fit both the bosh and valeo alternators?


There used to be a metalnerd kit for removing the pulley but I don't see it listed anymore. So long as it's a 19.6 diameter 33 spline then eBay/Amazon has the short spline tool for less than ten bucks where you can likely replace the pulley without removing the alternator from the vehicle. Alternator removal isn't hard but I'm lazy, love short cuts when they mean getting a repair done properly in a more timely manner.

 

[oilhammer]

022-903-119-D is the 5-groove pulley the BHW uses, 022-903-119-C is the 6-groove pulley the ALH/BEW/BRM/etc. (the transverse cars) use.

The 07K prefix one is for the 2.5L 5 cyl gas engines in transverse applications.

All the pulleys will screw on to any of the Bosch, Valeo, or Hitachi alternators VAG used interchangeably.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Sometimes when the pulley fails it damages the threads and requires a new rotor at minimum.
I stock the ina clutch pulleys for those, as well as an American made tool kit. The Chinese ones are known for breaking. Sometimes when it was seized up like that, it can be pretty hard to break loose and so an impact and pulling the alternator can be easier.

 

[Smokerr]

If it is a Valeo unit, I'd just replace it with a Bosch and a new INA pulley. If it is already a Bosch unit, and is not otherwise damaged, I'd just put a new pulley on.

That bearing in that pulley seized up a while ago. You got lucky that neglecting it and letting it let go like that did not do much, much more damage. Always check the operation of that alternator pulley at every single service. Easy, takes 10 seconds and a pocket screwdriver. That "sounded a bit odd but nothing concerning" costs people cylinder heads or worse, engines on these cars. The accessory belt can get thrown off and pulled between the pulley and the front of the engine, and can derail the timing belt. Bad news. Count your blessings, buy a lottery ticket.

Duly noted. I was in a hurry to get a meat order picked up and then put away and lost my mind. In some fairness, I had asked about that pulley and was told not to worry about it when the ilder was changed out, sigh. Lesson for others here maybe?

They had a Bosch in town with the pulley on it so I bought it (yes I have the Valeo) Then the fun began on getting the accessory belt. My go to Foreign Auto Store, nope.
O Riley 1. We only list one, hmm, seems short, and none other listed, hmmm. NAPA, nope. VW Nope. I realized I could at least check the pulley groves which looked like too few (yea I know but I am pushing 70). So, I decided to return to my normal O Riley, guy said, we list another one, oh my. Yep, there we go, they had it. Go figure.

I think I will skip the lottery, we don't have one anyway but will count my blessings and go on from here.

 

[Smokerr]

Sometimes when the pulley fails it damages the threads and requires a new rotor at minimum.
I stock the ina clutch pulleys for those, as well as an American made tool kit. The Chinese ones are known for breaking. Sometimes when it was seized up like that, it can be pretty hard to break loose and so an impact and pulling the alternator can be easier.

Thank you. The bearing part walked off the hub. If I pulled it off I suspect the shaft is fine, it looks pressed on. I hate to think the forces invovled in the hub drift. I figured I was going to be into the pulley for about $100 and with Oilhammer take and I was inclined anyway as with the work (for me harder with the back issue) get it all done.

PM me if anyone wants the old alternaor, cost of shipping (probably flat rate) and $50 and its yours.

 

[oilhammer]

My original Valeo died at 160k. That seems to be a fairly common range for them. The Bosch units typically last much longer, it is not uncommon to see VAG products in the 300k mile range with their original Bosch units still working fine. That's why I replace the Valeos with Bosch. A few of the late ALH wagons (which were assembled in Germany, ironically) came with Hitachi alternators. Don't have enough of them to have any good data on their longevity, though.

 

[Lotawood]

Easy, takes 10 seconds and a pocket screwdriver.

I'm not familiar with these pulleys. Could you tell how you check with a screwdriver?
I think I could check with the belt off. Thanks.

 

[Mozambiquer]

I'm not familiar with these pulleys. Could you tell how you check with a screwdriver?
I think I could check with the belt off. Thanks.

Use a screw driver to hold the rotor still and then with your hand twist the pulley one way and the other. It should turn one way and not the other. Also should be smooth and not notchey.

 

[Lotawood]

Thanks Mozambiquer. I was hoping for a way to check with the belt on. But didn't think of a way.
Sounds like belt off. Then the check is the 10 seconds?

 

[Vince Waldon]

No need to pull off the belt... leave it on, use a screwdriver to (gently) push the fan blades... they should move OK in one direction and not want to move in the other.

10 seconds.

 

[Smokerr]

Adder: The Bosch alternator I go has the wrong pulley on it, its spaced out 1/4 -3/8 of an inch more. Working with the parts people (nice group, local operation) to sort out. There is a spacer gap the old one does not have and trial check and it does not line up. Good info from Oilhammer to replace the alternator with that mileage range on it.

I went back down memory lane and I did check the pulley about 10k ago, we were having a vibration and it was that or the tensioner (said tensiore was making like a woodpecker). Clearly more often but it was smooth at the time, famous last words.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Adder: The Bosch alternator I go has the wrong pulley on it, its spaced out 1/4 -3/8 of an inch more. Working with the parts people (nice group, local operation) to sort out. There is a spacer gap the old one does not have and trial check and it does not line up. Good info from Oilhammer to replace the alternator with that mileage range on it.

I went back down memory lane and I did check the pulley about 10k ago, we were having a vibration and it was that or the tensioner (said tensiore was making like a woodpecker). Clearly more often but it was smooth at the time, famous last words.

Is it the 6 groove pulley? The mk4 alternator is exactly the same but has a 6 groove pulley instead of the b5.5's 5 groove.

 

[Smokerr]

Yes its the 6 grove, I need to confirm its not an issue, seems like it would run fine. I found the old pulley and it has the same spacing, what was looking odd was the combination of the spacing and the extra grove.

The referecnes I am looking at seem to have no spacing to a machined spacer so no idea why the difference.

 

[zzdiesel]

I would get the proper pulley. Serpentine belts like allignment, much more critical than V belts.

 

[Mozambiquer]

I would agree with the proper pulley..I dont know about the actual spacing, I could measure it. The correct pulley isn't very expensive ($32 for a new oem one)

 

[PickleRick]

My experience with too many ribs on a serpentine is they like to walk. Usually leads in a short belt life.

 

[Smokerr]

The rest of the story is that the Bosch had the wrong pulley on it as the spaced flange was nearest to the alternator. Its supposed to be on the outside. The Bosch PN (TYC 2-13853) crosses both in their book and online lookup.

TYC 2-13853 Alternator

{"design_type":"replacement","sku":"FQPX-2-13853"}

www.partcatalog.com

I had to go with a Valeo to get going. Worst case it gets me through for now and keep a close eye on the pulley, with fuel prices driving the pickup is painful.

Does anyone have the right Bosch PN?

 

[Mozambiquer]

The rest of the story is that the Bosch had the wrong pulley on it as the spaced flange was nearest to the alternator. Its supposed to be on the outside. The Bosch PN (TYC 2-13853) crosses both in their book and online lookup.

TYC 2-13853 Alternator

{"design_type":"replacement","sku":"FQPX-2-13853"}

www.partcatalog.com

I had to go with a Valeo to get going. Worst case it gets me through for now and keep a close eye on the pulley, with fuel prices driving the pickup is painful.

Does anyone have the right Bosch PN?

I don't have it right now, but will be getting another Bosch core in to build.
The Valeo one will be good for a long time. Mine lasted for 250k miles on the original one, I rebuilt it with oem Valeo parts and kept going.
I do have a higher amp Bosch one I build, its a 180 amp alternator which I build using oem parts that are originally used in Chevrolet applications, and of course oem Bosch regulators.
Or ypu can just swap the clutch pulley for the proper 5 groove pulley and itll be just dandy.

 

[Smokerr]

I would agree with the proper pulley..I dont know about the actual spacing, I could measure it. The correct pulley isn't very expensive ($32 for a new oem one)

I would have been better off but I would need the tool (once every 100k!) and prices in Anchorage are much higher and or freight to get them here. With 130k on the car and alternators, per Oilhammer, seemed a good investment to get a new alterntor and and pulley with it. I can keep an eye on it more closely and more often though I am surprised it showed no indication of bad

 

[Smokerr]

Thanks Mozambiquer. I was hoping for a way to check with the belt on. But didn't think of a way.
Sounds like belt off. Then the check is the 10 seconds?

Get a 19 mm wrench and get on the spring tensioner and that will be enough to roll the pulley and get a feel for smooth or not.

Maybe that and replace at 100k, cheap insurance and the cost in time and fuel and frustration with running around dealing with this.

INA right off my pulley is F-225653.10 though I don't know if you can get it in the US. Oddly I worked with INA on a Hangar door system that was out of Europe (great design, had some nasty bugs to be worked out). Some of the arrestor bearings were INA that let go. I went to order them and almost got into a fight with the sales guy. He tells me they are the wrong ones for the application. I had to get an OK from managment to take his advice for the right ones. I was impressed he stood his ground.

It does come up under Part Number: W0133-1895285 in this supplier. Blow up shows a different INA number.

https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2005/volkswagen/passat/engine_electrical/alternator_pulley.html

 

[Mozambiquer]

"INA right off my pulley is F-225653.10 though I don't know if you can get it in the US"
Yes, you can. I just ordered to restock them..oem ina pulleys.