The Golf/Rabbit VI

[verylongdrive]

The following may be a repeat because I don't know how clear it is from the google-translation which I can't see. The AutoBild article says a few interesting things:


-The Golf wagon (aka JSW) gets the new nose, but keeps its bland rear.
-New Jetta in 2010.

Note that with the A5, VW didn't repeat the A4 experiment of selling a separate cheap Golf wagon and pretend-upscale Jetta wagon in Germany. So this means that the single wagon model will now look like a Golf VI - apparently without delay.
If the Golf VI went on sale here as soon as in Germany, VW might have to explain here (at least to the magazines and showroom masses they think they are conning with regard to "the Jetta is more than a Golf with a trunk") why the wagon suddenly gets the "cheap" nose from the Golf - though it will of course look better. Or they'd have to keep making an old-nose wagon just for the US. Of course the real answer will be to keep making Golf Vs for another year or two, despite manufacturing cost being the reason for the Golf VI.

-In the engine listing, it mentions multiple current and new-for-2009 engines, including 140hp CR TDI, and then separately that there will be a BlueMotion TDI with 105 or 110hp.

I don't know if for Germany, the BlueMotion refers to a separate line of tech and PR for the local greenies, or if the US-emissions engines are simply sold there as is with that label.
So this may or may not say anything about future US TDI engine choices.

-There is mention of different engine choices for the 2010 Jetta US vs. Europe, but the sentence finishes with generalities about European engines (I'm sure they got more than the one listed) vs. the 2.5. Since this ignores the existing new TDI, this is of no consequence, I think. (Note how no mention is made of tighter US emissions regulations requiring addition of BlueMotion - most people in Germany still think they came up with the catalytic converter in the mid-80s, and those who steer opinions like to keep it that way.)

 

[chewy]

All MKV Golf production will end soon, the MKVI Golf will go on sale in the US (maybe as GTI only) in fall of 09, so that means there could be very few Rabbits for sale next year. VW should make about 25,000 to fill the gap. But then again VW might not bother making cars that it loses money on.

VW has done a very good job in cutting fuel consumption on the MKVI.

exceptionally quiet TDI common rail engines being used in the Golf for the first time. Two balancer shafts also put an end to undesirable vibrations. Plans call for a TDI power range extending from 66 kW / 90 PS to 125 kW / 170 PS. Right at the market launch, Volkswagen will be offering the Golf with two 2.0 liter TDI engines; they output 81 kW / 110 PS and 103 kW / 140 PS.
The new TDIs are exceptionally fuel efficient. The 110 PS strong entry-level diesel is satisfied with 4.5 liters of fuel (119 g/km CO2) per 100 kilometers – that represents a 0.6 liter reduction! Even the 140 PS version only requires 4.9 liters of diesel (129 g/km CO2), which is 0.6 liters less.

The 2.0TDI does as well as any other diesel in Europe, even if it's not a 1.6. And the 110 horsepower 2.0 TDI only gets 8.8% more mpgs than the 140 horsepower 2.0TDI. Gas engines reduce consumption as well

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/05/officially-officialy-vw-drops-details-on-golf-vi/

As for VW building the Rabbit in the US, that's unlikely imo. Rabbit sells about 2,000 per month while VW can expect to sell many more Camry type vehicles.

 

[jvance]

All MKV Golf production will end soon, the MKVI Golf will go on sale in the US (maybe as GTI only) in fall of 09, so that means there could be very few Rabbits for sale next year. VW should make about 25,000 to fill the gap. But then again VW might not bother making cars that it loses money on.

VW has done a very good job in cutting fuel consumption on the MKVI.



The 2.0TDI does as well as any other diesel in Europe, even if it's not a 1.6. And the 110 horsepower 2.0 TDI only gets 8.8% more mpgs than the 140 horsepower 2.0TDI. Gas engines reduce consumption as well

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/05/officially-officialy-vw-drops-details-on-golf-vi/

As for VW building the Rabbit in the US, that's unlikely imo. Rabbit sells about 2,000 per month while VW can expect to sell many more Camry type vehicles.

It sounds like they're talking about improvements over the 140PS 2.0PD engine, which is still listed on the vw.co.uk website at 5.5 l/100km combined. So the 2.0 CR engine will be rated in Europe at 4.9 l/100km (48 mpg overall), and that's with a DPF.

 

[chewy]

Exactly, going from 5.5 to 4.9 with the switch from PD to Common Rail is a pretty good achievement, this is the 13% improvement in fuel economy that VW quoted a while back in some Jetta press release.

 

[Rod Bearing]

If VW really cares about growth and its long term health, it is not too concerned about losing a little money in the US in the short term. If they really want to grow in the future, the US market is one of the biggest areas they have room to grow in. It is a lot more costly in the long run to lose market share now in the US that they have to make up later than to lose money now in order to retain the market share they have. VW will continue to lose money until they build their US plant, they know this and plan for this. Not all companies are as short sighted as some American car companies.

VW is building a plant here for the very reason I stated. The cost to produce elsewhere is driven way up due to the exchange rate of the US Dollar. They wouldn't be building the new plant if they expected the dollars' downward trend to change anytime soon.

They sell all the cars they build right now. There is little pressure to fret about the US market. Sure they want to increase sales but they are shrewd enough to know when to hold and when to fold, hence, their new factory WILL export cars to europe as well as build here for here, because they can make money hand over fist when the products are leaving here for elsewhere. Simple dollar econ 101.

 

[jvance]

Exactly, going from 5.5 to 4.9 with the switch from PD to Common Rail is a pretty good achievement, this is the 13% improvement in fuel economy that VW quoted a while back in some Jetta press release.

Okay, this is much more consistent. the 1.9PD 105PS engine is listed at 5.1l/100km combined, and the new 140PS 2.0CR engine rates at 4.9l/100km combined. Similarly, the revised EPA numbers for the 1.9PD is 33 mpg vs 34 mpg for the 2.0 CR.

<RotaryKidDisclaimer> Neither the UK nor the US numbers are "real". They are used here only for consistently comparing two cars using the same methodology
</RotaryKidDisclaimer>

So both the UK (which I assume are Euro) and the US economy numbers show a slight improvement in mileage from the 1.9PD to the 2.0CR. It's looking more and more reasonable to assume that the '09 Jettas, in the same hands on the same roads, will get about 5% better fuel economy than the '06 Jettas.

 

[m9431]

No, I'm deadly serious. VW has the bad habit of "underbuilding" cars (Passat B4) then doing "penance" by "overbuilding" the next car (B5.5). Then, when they realized they put too much quality in a car, they yo-yo back the other way and start de-contenting (Passat B6). According to this flip-flop theory of Dr. Fahrvergnuegen, the A6 Golf should be a Trash-it (get the pun). As to styling, the new A6 appears to be yet another over-creased exercize. Yet another car with "pulled" headlights and a higher beltline to reduce visibility. If I want that, I can go to a Lexus dealer. Besides, I can't wait until this new (moron) VW CEO for U.S. operations gives these cars "American" ride characteristics. Then they will be UNRELIABLE Toyotas. Cool...

You have some good points that could <should and must> serve as a warning to VW, especailly the new American CEO. First, do not copy Toyota's styling. Second, make sure you know what turns on the people that are loyal to VW. Third, quality is important. Fourth? Don't "Americanize" ride and handling. I am hopeful that VW gets the picture. They need to carve their niche in the American market, and if they do it properly, they'll certainly do well.

Frankly, I like the styling of Golf VI from the photos I saw, as did my 16 year old who is a young car guy. Can't say that I'm into higher beltlines, but this is the current styling trend for better or worse. I'm still not tired of my MkIV Golf's styling, form and function, ergonomic and elegant.

 

[donDavide]

underbuilding??

No, I'm deadly serious. VW has the bad habit of "underbuilding" cars (Passat B4) then doing "penance" by "overbuilding" the next car (B5.5). Then, when they realized they put too much quality in a car, they yo-yo back the other way and start de-contenting (Passat B6). According to this flip-flop theory of Dr. Fahrvergnuegen, the A6 Golf should be a Trash-it (get the pun). As to styling, the new A6 appears to be yet another over-creased exercize. Yet another car with "pulled" headlights and a higher beltline to reduce visibility. If I want that, I can go to a Lexus dealer. Besides, I can't wait until this new (moron) VW CEO for U.S. operations gives these cars "American" ride characteristics. Then they will be UNRELIABLE Toyotas. Cool...

I had 92 Passat GL, and 95 Passat GLX and I do not think they were underbuilt.

 

[donDavide]

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2235.shtm

This is what I call ugly. Some one mentioned Scirocco here. The A6 Golf/Rabbit looks better. (and it has been mentioned many time but Rabbit?) I loverd the original Scirocco (especially the S) and I still like the name, but not Rabbit, even though I owned an 82 Rabbit. I

 

[buckeye96]

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/08/05/volkswagen-releases-more-details-on-the-new-gen-vi-golf-up-to-5/

Volkswagen releases more details on the new Gen-VI Golf, up to 52.3 mpg (US)

The sixth generation Volkswagen Golf won't be shown publicly until October's Paris Motor Show. However, VW has just officially released the photos we already saw a couple of days ago along with a slew of details on its new mainstream model. Along with the usual array of refinements that come with almost every new generation of a car, the Golf gets technology like adaptive cruise control, adaptive chassis control and parking assist systems. How many of these will make it to the US market Rabbit are unknown. But that's not why you read ABG.

With the new generation all diesel powered Golfs now get common rail fuel injection like that used on the new US Jetta TDI launching next month. Eventually the Golf will have a range of TDI diesels from 90-170 hp. At launch a pair of 2.0L units with 110 hp and 140 hp will be available. All the new Golf TDIs get particulate filters to eliminate virtually all of the soot emissions. The 110 hp engine improves from 46.1 mpg (US) to 52.3 mpg (US) on the EU combined cycle and is rated at 119 g/km of CO2 emissions. The 140 hp diesel gets a 48 mpg (US) rating. The direct injected gas engines are also more efficient with power ratings from 80 to 160 hp. Aside from the lowest end models any of the engines can be had with either a manual or a DSG dual clutch transmission which now replaces conventional automatic transmissions across the board. In the top end model a 150 hp 2.0L engine with automatic is replaced by a 160 hp TSI (turbo and supercharged, and direct injected) 1.4L that combined with a 7-speed DSG yields 28 percent less fuel consumption. The full press release is after the jump.

 

[mavapa]

I really, really hope we get a diesel VW that can best the mileage of my '01 Golf. I keep wondering what I would do if someone wrecked it.

An aside: I saw a coupe yesterday and was confused for just a few seconds - or maybe longer. At first I thought it was a new VW, and then I thought it was a Honda. I finally came down on the Honda side, but it was a tough decision.

 

[BeetleGo]

The next Polo is due to bow here. This is the same size as the original Rabbit/Golf and gets 60mpg. This is the model I'd like to see in a 1.6 liter diesel. Vroom... sip.

http://www.autocrust.blogspot.com/2007/12/2009-volkswagen-polo.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/15/coming-to-america-vw-polo-may-come-stateside/

 

[donDavide]

2nd that.

The next Polo is due to bow here. This is the same size as the original Rabbit/Golf and gets 60mpg. This is the model I'd like to see in a 1.6 liter diesel. Vroom... sip.

http://www.autocrust.blogspot.com/2007/12/2009-volkswagen-polo.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/15/coming-to-america-vw-polo-may-come-stateside/

I always thought they (VW) should send the Polo.

 

[DRbillZ]

Anyone else hate this term "blog". I think it's the dumbest thing to ever come along.
"weblog". I mean just how stupid have we become to where we believe something just becaus someone has a "blog".
I rarely read anything that is termed a "blog".

 

[The Chris]

That looks like a photoshop mashup of the new Corrado and Touareg.

 

[dieselyeti]

Anyone else hate this term "blog". I think it's the dumbest thing to ever come along. "weblog". I mean just how stupid have we become to where we believe something just becaus someone has a "blog".

X2. I think we'd need to see something a bit more substantial on this from VW, and not just some random internet motorhead, before rumor becomes fact.

 

[jvance]

X2. I think we'd need to see something a bit more substantial on this from VW, and not just some random internet motorhead, before rumor becomes fact.

Umm, did you notice the official VW press release embedded in the article?

 

[TDIMANtobe]

Golf VI unveiled

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_2395.shtml

 

[Tickbait]

From some angles, I feel like I am seeing some mk4 styling cues. I do like the sharper lines of this mk6 Golf, er Rabbit.

I'm with you on that observation. Sure like it better than that Focus/Versa wanna be POS seen in this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=221197

 

[jhintontdi]

Can't say that I'm into higher beltlines, but this is the current styling trend for better or worse.

The rise in car beltlines is due to the IIHS side-impact testing. The IIHS now hits cars with a truck / suv form which is heavier and taller than the old form. In order to score well you build cars for the test which means raising the beltline so the form hits the body of the car instead of the greenhouse.

As to the A6 golf. I like it, not much different from the A5 but hopefully VW can make some money on them. If VW can't make money we don't get cars. With the growth of the developing world and the projections that China will soon overtake the US as the largest car market in the world, VW really has no reason to build cars specificially for the US market. VW is very strong in places like China (20% market Share) and making a big push in India and Russia.

I'll be interested to see what engines they actually bring to the US and what the fuel economy will be. I expect at least 50-60mph combined for my next car.

 

[Powder Hound]

Ditto. I can't justify spending for a new car that doesn't do better (by 10 mpg) than my current Y2k Golf. The Polo would have a high probability of doing that, if VW would quit teasing and just tell us what they'll do.

Of course, maybe they can't make up their own minds.

 

[TornadoRed]

From some angles, I feel like I am seeing some mk4 styling cues. I do like the sharper lines of this mk6 Golf, er Rabbit.

I'm with you on that observation...

I agree as well. The Mk4 Golf styling looks good almost ten years after introduction, and better in some ways than the Mk5. The Mk6 styling is constrained by the same limits on size and conformation; I won't say I like it better than the Mk4, but I do like it better than the Mk5.

 

[donDavide]

I agree as well. The Mk4 Golf styling looks good almost ten years after introduction, and better in some ways than the Mk5. The Mk6 styling is constrained by the same limits on size and conformation; I won't say I like it better than the Mk4, but I do like it better than the Mk5.

In another forum across the pond is was refered to as an A5.5. I would have to agree with that. I just don't like the side view from the end of the front door to the back. I just do not like the passenger windows.

 

[m9431]

The rise in car beltlines is due to the IIHS side-impact testing. The IIHS now hits cars with a truck / suv form which is heavier and taller than the old form. In order to score well you build cars for the test which means raising the beltline so the form hits the body of the car instead of the greenhouse.

As to the A6 golf. I like it, not much different from the A5 but hopefully VW can make some money on them. If VW can't make money we don't get cars. With the growth of the developing world and the projections that China will soon overtake the US as the largest car market in the world, VW really has no reason to build cars specificially for the US market. VW is very strong in places like China (20% market Share) and making a big push in India and Russia.

I'll be interested to see what engines they actually bring to the US and what the fuel economy will be. I expect at least 50-60mph combined for my next car.

We're thinking very much a like on this. I like my A4, was not that thrilled over the A5, but like the A6. The higher beltline should enable it to be stronger/safer. Form is following function; the engineer in me likes that idea as well. I expect that VW will have more time to refine the new CR engine technology and pollution control systems allowing a few more MPG to be squeezed out and maybe a little more power. Would be great to have a choice of two diesel engines. Oh yes, bring on the Polo as well!

 

[vwxyzero]

I agree with BRUSSELS BELGIAN, IMO the new wabbit is Butt-ugly...but I'll take the Scriocco anyday, now that's nice styling...

Ok, Im taking my own quote back, the 2 door is starting to grow on me, starting to remind me of my old 2L 16 valve GTI before I went TDI.

A little off topic, but why in the hell are a lot of new car manufactures, including VW, bring street cars out with the lowest of low, low profile tires?
Yep they handle great, I had them on my GTI, but the ride sucks for street use, is hard on the entire longevity of the car, and in most urban areas your bound to bend wheels. Where is the engineering logic in that choice?

 

[wolfskin]

No engineering logic.
Marketing logic!

They look great! They make your sporty street car look more sporty! You can brag with them! You buy them.


Oh, and they make SUVs and pickups with a foot of ground clearance and extra heavy duty suspension (to handle really rough terrain) and then they also put ultra-low profile tyres on huge chrome wheels on them.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Looks sharp. I'd like to see, on the gas side, the 1.4 TSI (about 122 hp, about 150 lb-ft from TDIesque RPMs, and terrific fuel economy for a gasser), and maybe as options a 100 hp or so super-efficient TDI and the 2.0. For a more powerful gas motor, the GTI can fill the niche.

Nice pix over on Vortex. Could be my next car if it comes with the right engine and is packaged nicely. I'm looking to maybe downsize next time around.

 

[m9431]

Ok, Im taking my own quote back, the 2 door is starting to grow on me, starting to remind me of my old 2L 16 valve GTI before I went TDI.

A little off topic, but why in the hell are a lot of new car manufactures, including VW, bring street cars out with the lowest of low, low profile tires?
Yep they handle great, I had them on my GTI, but the ride sucks for street use, is hard on the entire longevity of the car, and in most urban areas your bound to bend wheels. Where is the engineering logic in that choice?

Marketing mostly... And replacement tires cost much more, so someone makes more profit. They look better but as you said, they ride harder, wear out suspension parts more quickly, and are prone to damage from pot holes. I always see damaged wheels in custom wheel shops. I found that using a stiffer sidewall tire, like the Bridgestone RE960 and others, improves handling while allowing the use of less costly wheels. These tires are very reasonably priced at this size and handle great. I stayed with a 15" alloy wheel for my '02. With these tires, I think I have an optimum blend of handling, ride, fuel economy, and low overall cost with good appearance--all at relatively low cost.

 

[Steve-o]

Oh, and they make SUVs and pickups with a foot of ground clearance and extra heavy duty suspension (to handle really rough terrain) and then they also put ultra-low profile tyres on huge chrome wheels on them.

Nothing says poseur or wannabe to me more than some huge pickup or SUV with tons of plastic body cladding and delicate alloy wheels. You know that truck will never be driven on any surface lumpier than a grass parking lot.

Ob VW content: I like the Mark VI styling but have to admit that it looks like lots of other brands out there. I'd much rather have a Polo diesel anyway.

 

[MrPolak]

At first I thought it was too much like a Mitsumbeechy, as I thought of the first pics the new Scirocco. But I also realize that Mitsu does not have the harmony of lines, so it's slowly sinking in. I withhold my final judgement until I see it in person.