TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

[TooSlick]

I can't explain the chrome and moly without considering a potential piston ring issue....

TS

 

[Blue_Hen_TDI]

Pardon in advance. Got a bunch of questions. I'll number them for ease of reply:

1. What's the best way to go about making VW aware of this potential engine problem? Should I call a national number first or go to a dealer?

2. Does it matter if I go to the closest dealer or should I go back to my selling dealer? Selling dealer is over an hour away and through complete DC traffic hell.

3. Does VW ever extend powertrain warranties for people in my situation? I'd even be happy if they narrowed it to only the engine itself after 60K miles. I'm already at 40K miles and put about 35K on the car per year.

4. If the engine has a piston issue after expiration of warranty, how much money am I talking for repair?

I was this close to trading the car this afternoon, but they didn't offer me enough on the Passat - only $18,500. Depending on the answers above though, I may just have to eat it. A possibly deteriorating engine when everything has been done right maintenance-wise in very unnerving. I expect things to go wrong with a VW car, but not the TDI engine.

 

[mountain-valleymotors]

I wouldn't be too quick to jump just yet. You need to explore your options and take another sample in 5,000 miles. If your car is running good and you aren't seeing any other symptoms I don't think it is a rush issue. From everything I have seen, these cars are well built units and VW is doing a better job of trying to take care of their customers than they have in the past.

I would talk to the service advisor or better yet, the manager at the dealership where you have been getting it serviced. See what they say. Be sure they understand you aren't accusing them of anything, try to get them to go to bat for you. If you have to take it further up the food chain you have time to do that and you have the documentation.

 

[jrypka]

First UOA on first OC

Does this look normal to you guys? The potassium in particular is a little unnerving. Sample was pulled by the tech at the 10k service...I hope he allowed some to drain before sampling.

 

[bobt2382]

Does this look normal to you guys? The potassium in particular is a little unnerving. Sample was pulled by the tech at the 10k service...I hope he allowed some to drain before sampling.

My first UOA @ 10K looked much worse than this one.
My potassium was 469, iron 80, and aluminum 174.

These three metals were still elevated above normal until 50K on my engine.

Your UOA looks normal compared to others posted here.

BTW, you may want to update your profile to easily identify what vehicle you have.

 

[TornadoRed]

Does this look normal to you guys? The potassium in particular is a little unnerving.

That is a perfectly normal UO result for a factory fill. The potassium and wear metals will drop over the next couple oil changes.

 

[akjdouglass]

Newbie to UOA's, too

My first UOA by Shaeffer's. I pulled sample (from between full/add) through dipstick just before 30k dealer service. Miles are a combination of daily 4 mile commutes and 1 or 2 weekly 130 mile highway round-trips.
The report from Shaeffer's says all values are normal and to maintain oil-change intervals, but the report doesn't list acceptable ranges.
Should I continue to sample at 10k intervals to get more data for comparison?

​

2012 JETTA TDI DSG​

DATE​

11/8/2013​

MILES ON ODO​

30,000​

MILES ON OIL​

10,000​

OIL SAMPLED​

CASTROL LLO3 5w30​

OIL FILLED​

SAME​

COPPER​

8​

IRON​

23​

CHROMIUM​

1​

ALUMINUM​

12​

LEAD​

0​

MOLYBDENUM​

5​

PHOSPHORUS​

366​

ZINC​

458​

MAGNESIUM​

5​

CALCIUM​

781​

SODIUM?​

8​

POTASSIUM​

28​

% ANTIFREEZE​

0.0​

FUEL DILUTION​

N​

%H2O​

0.0​

SILICON ppm​

4​

CST VISCOSITY​

11.82​

SAE ISO​

30​

SULFUR​

0​

OXIDATION​

18​

NITRATION​

20​

% SOOT​

0.2​

 

[TooSlick]

Akj,

Results look fine, except the as-tested additive levels are too low. This makes me wonder if their test equipment needs to be re-calibrated? The oil looks to be in decent shape, so you're fine with the 10k service intervals.

TS

 

[akjdouglass]

Thanks, Slick.
I just happened to have a single sampling kit sitting in the garage so I used it for the Jetta. I am interested if finding out if Sheaffer's has a 507 approved oil, but I can find that out elsewhere.
Any suggestions for a particular lab for my next UOA? Or should I just pick up a sampling kit at a parts store?

 

[TooSlick]

Blackstone and Oil Analyzers Inc. both do a good job. I prefer the latter because they include TBN testing in the price.

TS

 

[Mrrogers1]

Thanks, Slick.
I just happened to have a single sampling kit sitting in the garage so I used it for the Jetta. I am interested if finding out if Sheaffer's has a 507 approved oil, but I can find that out elsewhere.
Any suggestions for a particular lab for my next UOA? Or should I just pick up a sampling kit at a parts store?

All it takes is a phone call the Blackstone and they'll mail out kits to you.

Sent from my d3rpONE using Tapatalk 4

 

[kiva822]

Hey Folks. Got the golf tested. When I first bought it, it said it had high sodium but negative glycol test. It was the oil from previous owner. The following change is from oil that I ran..

Note: the car is short-tripped more than a TDI should be.

high soot from short tripping? Whatever was in the previous sample has resolved / was an anomoly?

 

[Ski in NC]

Man that T6 thickens. Seen that on mine too, but have not sampled in a while.

Soot is probably from your mods. If you get any black smoke while driving, some of that soot goes in the oil. Probably not high enough to shorten OCI, though. But that is subjective.

Not sure where the Na came from on first sample, but it definitely went down. I would not worry about that.

 

[bernie165]

Hello all - thought I would post my latest in hopes of some expert advice. Seems my car cannot go 10K! 80% of my driving is to and from work 30 miles each trip - 60% highway and 40% main road. There is little to no short trips - car is always fully warm. Another note - I am watching aluminum and iron close due to previous hydrolock. The car has been doing great until 1000 miles after this oil change. I took a 1000 mile trip to Ohio and back during freezing temperatures and was rewarded with another water ingestion on my first start above 32°F when the intercooler thawed. So I will be pulling another sample next oil change - was thinking of doing that at 6600 again to keep variables at a minimum. Thoughts??? Thank you in advance.

 

[bobt2382]

I'm no expert, but my engine AL and FE levels are still high like yours @ 55k miles. I kinda babied the engine the 1st 40K miles and IMHO, think that my break-in period is still occurring. Just my opinion. I'm accelerating to a higher RPM now.

What brand oil you using? I'm trying Penzoil and Liqui-moly to see if the TBN will stay above one'ish at 10K intervals. Time will tell.

Off topic, I see you may have the 2micron intercooler valve from your signature. I didn't know he was selling those yet.

Curious to see what the pro's have to say about this oil run. Keep an eye out for my next UOA in the next few months.

 

[bernie165]

Thanks Bob2382 - yeah I may be a little guilty of the same. Not because I wanted to baby it, but more the nature of my drive. Either way I have made a point to drive it "harder." The drain valve was a proto as I seem to have a lot of water issues due to the temp cycles. Andrew took great care of me and I think he decided not to produce them due to lack of demand??? I do not want to speak for him but will say his work is top notch. Having the drain is great because I know when I have water based on conditions so I just pull it before I start. This last time though, I was in a hurry and didn't think about it and so I paid for it.
I have been using Castrol SLX 5W-30 from the dealer. I have done all the maintenance and alternate between a Hengst filter or the OE wavy pureflux. I also have a Dimple magnetic drain plug which scares me because my iron level is actually higher than what the sample shows. I have been pulling samples and oil early due to the water issue and that I consistently have low TBN before 10K. I am no expert either and look forward to the experts' opinions. This forum has been a wealth of knowledge. bob - I follow this thread close but PM when you post I def want to see your results.

 

[bobt2382]

bernie165,

My signature has a link to my current UOA, you can see my issue, lol.
Yea, I was wondering why you had another water ingestion if you had 2micron's drain setup. Ironically, we have had some freezing weather and some higher than normal humidity here in the CA high desert the last few days/weeks. I have never pulled the hose on my intercooler, but the mechanic that repaired my car after the accident in July did saw that he found water in the hose when he replaced the intercooler. But that was probably from the NJ humidity for months I was there. To the point, looking at 2micron's pics, looks like I could fabricate one. I don't weld, so I'll either find someone or just pipe the drain in to the intercooler hose adapter.
I have his 2 HPFP kits, great products. I have asked him via pm/email when he is going to sell the drain kit and he has yet to respond to that question, haha. I also think that we may not get a 2 micron produced drain kit....may be too cost prohibitive to market and make a profit.
I have ECS mag drain plug since 10K miles. I bought Dimple mag drain pluga for the oil pan and transmission. Need to change my manual trans fluid asap. Hope I've got the correct plug! I'm going to have that fluid tested, not sure why, but mainly out of curiosity. Look forward to what both of us see on our next UOA.

 

[redone17]

So, I did another OA after two 5k intervals of Castrol Edge 5w40. PO was using Castrol 5w30 for the first 8 years/135k.

I am happy to see my metals have lessened.

TooSlick - seeing anything warranting any concern??

Since the last test I have put in new filters all around and also put in a Malone Tuning Stage 1.5 w/ Dynamic EGR.

You mentioned trying a fuel additive to alleviate my high soot levels. Do you suggest what type? I run 4 oz of Stanadyne Performance Formula with every 15 gallons of fuel.

I am now running Shell Rotella T6 and plan to try that also for two 5k intervals and submit another test.

Thanks for your time.

 

[TooSlick]

Redone,

Things look fine now, no need to change anything. The thicker Rotella should hold up even better.

TS

 

[redone17]

Great news. Thanks.

I will report back in after another 10k.

CP

 

[rgiskard]

another good Rotella

Here's the UOA on my 3rd run of Rotella T6.

Figure the higher iron and moly could be due to either too aggressive Italian tune-ups ( ) and/or initial cam wear. When I had the timing belt changed, I had German Imports checkout the cam, and he said the wear was minimal, some spidering, but overall for the years in and mileage, it looks great.
Thoughts?

 

[Bob_Fout]

Moly is an oil additive.

 

[rgiskard]

Moly is an oil additive.

ah....so that high count is good eh?

nice

 

[Bob_Fout]

ah....so that high count is good eh?

nice

T6 has an average level of Moly. It, along with Boron and ZDDP, are the primary anti-wear additives.

 

[dustingebhardt]

Here is the report from my JSW TDI at 95k miles. The report references a "snafu", which is this:

At roughly 100 miles after the oil change at 85k miles, the drain plug fell out and I lost all of my motor oil. I pulled over immediately when the warning light came on and before I noticed any temperature issues. I replaced the plug and oil at the side of the road and went on my merry way until my normal change interval at 95k miles. I also added a Fumoto valve at that time.

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s637/dgebhardt/Jetta95k_zps551f9e7b.jpg

 

[jmarshall]

What does everyone make of this? Should I follow their advice and shorten my interval to 5K and see what happens then?

 

[TornadoRed]

What does everyone make of this? Should I follow their advice and shorten my interval to 5K and see what happens then?

I'm not one of the experts, but IMO your oil is not worn out -- that would be the main reason to shorten the interval. The additive levels are about the same as before. The viscosity is down a bit; I prefer to start with a 5w40, and there are 5w40 oils meeting the very similar MB specifications that might work better in your engine.

 

[TooSlick]

Jmarshall,

Your end of test (EOT) viscosities are much too low - barely a 30wt in the last two tests. It looks like you have excessive fuel wash down the cylinders. This is causing a significant increase in upper engine metals. The oil is not at fault here, but reducing your change interval should help until you or the dealer can determine the root cause(s) of this problem.

Viscosity of a VW 507.00 oil should be in the 11.0-12.5 Cst range, ie a thick SAE 30 weight. Fuel dilution should be < 1.0% and flashpoint should at least be > 400F and generally > 420F.

TS

 

[jmarshall]

Jmarshall,

Your end of test (EOT) viscosities are much too low - barely a 30wt in the last two tests. It looks like you have excessive fuel wash down the cylinders. This is causing a significant increase in upper engine metals. The oil is not at fault here, but reducing your change interval should help until you or the dealer can determine the root cause(s) of this problem.

Viscosity of a VW 507.00 oil should be in the 11.0-12.5 Cst range, ie a thick SAE 30 weight. Fuel dilution should be < 1.0% and flashpoint should at least be > 400F and generally > 420F.

TS

Is this something that could be caused by my use of 100% B5?

 

[Ski in NC]

JM- How are you taking the sample? Sucking out of dipstick hole or catching drain flow from sump? Catching drain flow can pick up sediment from bottom of sump, which will skew numbers high.