Should I worry about buying a TdI?

[Type1collector]

I'm a longtime VW owner, still collect vintage Type 1s and w a new job, am looking at a TdI, Golf or Jetta. As I've followed topics here for the last few weeks there are some things troubling me. Lots of discussions of DSG prblems concerning shift problems, disengaging etc. ANd of late, several posts remarking on this 30 mph 3rd gear stumbling problem. Notably several members who have cars in and out of dealer w no fix and VW admitting they can't propose a fix. Some address ECU coding anomalies etc. So..until more of these problems are addressed and corrected, I'm nervous about buying only to have it in and out of dealer. I have neither time nor inclination to ship a new car to the mechanic every week or two to hear "sorry, can't find/fix the problem".
Warranted concerns or isolated incidents?

 

[dieseldorf]

Warranted concerns or isolated incidents?

Same old story, over and over. Some believe the situation is deteriorating as the vehicles grow more complex/fussy.

May I make a suggestion? If you're thinking TDI, think 2002 or 2003MY car with a nice written history and a MANual transmission!

Good luck and welcome aboard!

 

[mysql]

heh. You're worried about the TDI, but you haven't listed the biggest problem that you might encounter - the HPFP failure with metal particles in the fuel system/injectors that costs $10,000 to repair...

Should you be worried? I think you should be. Will you encounter the problem? So far the numbers don't seem to be widespread. Unless VW does something that alleviates the HPFP concerns, I personally would tell friends to wait a year or two more for it to pan out. I took a gamble with mine.

 

[lordscarlet]

I think you will find very few people that have their new golf in and out of the shop every week or two.

 

[RedSoxFan]

We have an 2009 with about 10k and a 2010 with about 4K and neither one of them has been back to the dealer yet. They've both given us great service, awesome fuel economy and they're a lot fun to drive. We have no regrets, in fact based on our experience I'd encourage you to take a real hard look at one.

 

[billyz]

I am very pleased with my Oct./09, 2010 JSW TDI. The DSG is great, no problems and shifts like a dream. I had a small wind noise on the drivers side door. The Dealer promptly replaced a loose metal trim on the pillar. my only other quible is the auto volume setting. It changes to zero sensitivty on it's own. I have tracked it down to using the bluetooth and adjusting the volume, afterwards the sensitivity is changed. But it is a very minor issue for me.

Power ,handling and acceleration are great! I like it better than the bmw 530i I just replaced. The bmw seats are better. I like it much better than my wifes Subaru 2.5XT limited. From what I read ,folks are complaining more about the way the manual shifts, ie stalling, 6th gear.

knock on wood, so far so good.

 

[coolbreeze]

Type 1 --here is a good thread to read through.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=269501

 

[Type1collector]

THanks so much for everyone's input. I surely don't feel the vehicle would be a BAD purchase, I have nothing but respect for German engineering. THe posts I mentioned were difficult to put in perspective as I couldn't find sales numbers for Tdis over the last few years. SO I was unable to assign a risk based on percentage.
I'm willing to give a new one a chance, but may, as suggested, look at a older model year. Its not like we're talking about a 4.5 million recall for sticking accelerators.

I value the input of educated owners very much and look forward to showing off a new or n-used Tdi very soon.

 

[Type1collector]

Not to jump back in so soon, I am planning to go with a manual, even though wifey would need to learn, she wouldn't be driving it so...
As to the stall problem mentioned above and that I've read about, does it seem more of a vehicle issue or "driver getting used to it" issue?

 

[raybo]

Type1collector:

You should not have any major issues with a 2010. I spoke with the service manager of the largest VW dealer in the US and he said he had encountered zero cars with HPFP failures. The number of cars with major/recurring problems is miniscule compared with the world-wide production numbers of these cars.

This does not mean that those with problems should not be upset and angry with VWoA (I would raise Hell with them if they were not responsive to a problem) - it just means that they are a very small minority.

Drive more, worry less. If the problems were as bad as they seem on this site, VWoA would have been gone already.

Ray

 

[ruking]

I'm a longtime VW owner, still collect vintage Type 1s and w a new job, am looking at a TdI, Golf or Jetta. As I've followed topics here for the last few weeks there are some things troubling me. Lots of discussions of DSG prblems concerning shift problems, disengaging etc. ANd of late, several posts remarking on this 30 mph 3rd gear stumbling problem. Notably several members who have cars in and out of dealer w no fix and VW admitting they can't propose a fix. Some address ECU coding anomalies etc. So..until more of these problems are addressed and corrected, I'm nervous about buying only to have it in and out of dealer. I have neither time nor inclination to ship a new car to the mechanic every week or two to hear "sorry, can't find/fix the problem".
Warranted concerns or isolated incidents?

VW certainly does NOT make it easy. Indeed VW has probably higher % rates of issues and probably a number of issues. It would seem German management needs to transfer some of that German engineering brain power to better German "reliability". Most everything seems like coulda, woulda, shoulda. This web site is certainly a good place to "read between the lines". So if you are considering a new car 2009/2010, the best way to bypass the (possibility of) DSG issues is get a 6 speed manual.

However over the longer term, the jury is still out on whether those particular 6 speed manuals can go the 400,000 miles expected life span, like for example, the 2003 TDI's 5 speed manual.

So for example I would concur with folks who point to a (now used) 5 speed manual 2003 TDI. (well cared for, used and maintained by someone knowledgeable about its care and feeding) When I bought mine new, not surprisingly while some minority of folks pointed out it could possibly be the best model/yr at the time, time has really formed the so called consensus.

However, the 2003 5 speed manual has never been known as a "bullet proof " transmission. But both the vehicle and specifically the transmission have been flawless.

I am currently at 130,000 miles (baby, I know) and fully expect to get 400,000 miles and above from the oem clutch.

Indeed current thinking would put a Sach's V6 single plate "upgrade" (replacement in my case) clutch on the 2003 TDI 5 speed manual if /when needed, albeit for cheaper cost, durability, power handling capability, reliability (I probably left something out) . Another is if you are not careful with the management of power upgrades on the oem clutch, you can pretty much kiss that 400,000/500,000 miles clutch durability good bye. When it needs it, I will go to that Sach's V6 clutch upgrade. This assumes of course that is the latest and greatest at that future time and probably more importantly what is available.

We also have a 2009 DSG with 14,000 miles. It has literally been flawless. My sense (of the one I have) is DSG fluid change and probably clutch packs @ 250,000 miles. It was NOT on the DSG recall VW list. I received the coveted Dec 2009 ltr extending the warranty to 10 years/100,000 miles DSG ONLY warranty.

 

[Razinhell]

If you come to a car forum dedicated to a specific brand and limited to certain models you will always find more people who are complaining about issues, problems and mechanical failures. Yeah it can seem like a possible issue, but even if 500 people had the same issue and the company sells 50,000 similar vehicles it is only a 1% problems. Obviously i just made these numbers up to show a point. I've been on other forums where people complain about the same exact issues and have come to the conclusion that there is no perfect situation.

This is another reason why i feel Consumer Reports reliability studies to be crap. It is based on a consumer survey. Now, I considered surveys to be one of the most inaccurate ways of collecting data. In CR's defense it is the only way to get this data, so we must deal. My problem is i know ton's of people with issues for vehicles that are top rated, yet no issues for the same vehicles that are the lowest rated. Do people with problems report those problems more often versus those with no problems at all? Do older/younger subscribers report problems to CR on a more likely basis? There are so many other questions you could ask. Because they don't disclose their results and how they come across a conclusion for reliability how can you trust it.

What i'm really trying to say is no matter what vehicle you buy reliability is usually based on the quality of the owner. If your someone who takes care of a vehicle then you will have the highest chances of not having problems. Design flaws are just not something you can think of when purchasing a vehicle. These companies do their best to prevent them, but no company is perfect and i have yet to find any one company more reliable then the other. Good luck.

 

[dzcad90]

If you come to a car forum dedicated to a specific brand and limited to certain models you will always find more people who are complaining about issues, problems and mechanical failures.

x 1,000,000

The people with issues are much more vocal than those who have machines that are running well.

Knock on wood, since I picked up my car with 13 miles on the odometer and 18,800 miles as of lunctime today and no issues so far.

 

[dieseldorf]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=271421

 

[Type1collector]

Razinhell understood my point. On my other VW forum for vintage cars, lots of complainers. As I mentioned, with no sales figures I didn't know if there were an inordinate number of whines. I sincerely appreciate everyones input. I am a truly OCD mechanic, so maintenance will not be an issue.
Now that I'm more aware that the number of problems are about what I'd expect to hear about, I feel much better.
As to my earlier reply, is the stalling with 6 spd seem more of an issue with driver not car? I think last time I stalled a manual trans was learning to drive my grandads VW Bus. I was 9. But I also see how turbo lag, very quiet engines, funny clutch linkage etc. could take time to get used to.

 

[Cloudlink04]

Wait for the 2011 model.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

The stalling seems to be a combination of the driver. The driver is expecting torque because that's what TDIs have always had, and the CRD just doesn't deliver that from idle as much as the previous engines. There's also the bit about the engine shutting itself off when the RPMs dip too low (perhaps for emissions?), so that just exacerbates the problem. With that said, it's something that you get used to... it just takes a while to get used to if you're used to the way most diesels behave; you can't just let the clutch out anymore.

 

[meowguy]

This is another reason why i feel Consumer Reports reliability studies to be crap.

I use Consumer Reports as a gauge of product quality, and it's not crap, but you need to use your head and talk to people who own the same vehicle. There was nothing in the Jetta review for the 07, 08, and 09 model years that put me off. No higher incidence of repairs than other cars in this class. My Jetta has a dealer sponsored lifetime powertrain warranty and a 100,000 mile third party warranty. I do this on my cars because I drive so many miles in such a short time.

You could have bought a Consumer's highly rated Toyota and have it run off the road because of the accelerator sticking. 2,700 accelerators have stuck causing some 290 accidents.

 

[ruking]

I use Consumer Reports as a gauge of product quality, and it's not crap, but you need to use your head and talk to people who own the same vehicle. There was nothing in the Jetta review for the 07, 08, and 09 model years that put me off. No higher incidence of repairs than other cars in this class.

You could have bought a Consumer's highly rated Toyota and have it run off the road because of the accelerator sticking.

I would agree and really it is hard to disregard a compulation of actual (i.e., VW Jetta) OWNERS given a statistically tested and longitudinally validated formula.