problems need urgent help

[daypass72]

This am I changed the engine oil and filter in my 2006 Jetta TDi, started it up to check the oil level and topped it up to specific level. My wife drove the car few blocks away to get some lunch. She called me and said the car will not start. I went over and the battery was dead. I boosted it and drove it home. I charged it up and load tested it and and its dead. I bought a new battery and installed it and it fired right up.

1hr later I was out with the car, came out of the store and it will crank but will not start. There was a slight burning smell coming from inside the car near the fuse panel. I checked all the fuses and they are all ok. even the ones under the hood on the drivers side. There is a possibility i may have put a fuse in the wrong spot while checking them but slight chance.

I am lost here and need the vehicle asap, its the only one we have

any idea's what could be the problem?? from what I have read everyone talks about this 109 relay. I don't see a relay anywhere that has 109 on it. Is this an older TDi relay?

Thanks

 

[LukeWilson]

I don't think your car has 109 relay, it has been updated to something else. Also if it was the problem, i don't think you would be able to crank the car over. Does the glow plug light come on when you turn the key to the accessory position?

 

[donDavide]

Harness??? PM Bob S. because his Harness went bad and it sounds similar to what happened to him.

 

[AndyBees]

As stated, I don't think you vehicle has the 109 Relay. But, if so, the car would crank over with a dead 109, just will not start!

Seems something is drawing a lot of current somewhere. The oil change shouldn't have anything to do with your problem. However, did you leave something laying under the hood that may have got into the wiring (crunched when the hood was shut)?

You need a Bentley to double check proper location of Fuses!

 

[LukeWilson]

Here is a good link for a test to confirm that there is a draw on your battery:

http://www.flashoffroad.com/electrical/Batteries/BatteryDrain.html

After this main test you can start to go through other major components to try and track down the problem. Good luck, wiring gremlins are the worst!

 

[jcilforever]

Check to make sure the system is charging ie the alternator

 

[DanG144]

The alternator is often a source of fairly high current drain. You can often just feel that it is warm or hot when you get ready to start the car, after it has been shutdown for hours and should be cool.

You can do the same with the relays under the hood.

It sounds to me as if one of your power relays has failed. The later equivalent of the "109 relay".

On the 2005.5 and 2006 models the electrical layouts change a whole bunch, very rapidly.
Look in your E-box under the hood. How many relays do you see, and what numbers are on them?
How many fuse spots do you see? (count the empty ones, too.)
Look below your driver's door frame. What month and year was it built?

Right now, I would suspect a relay under the hood (marked as 458 which supplies power to your engine controls), and potentially two relays on relay panel B up under the dash over the drivers legs. These relays would be in position 1 and/or position 4, and I do not know what numbers would be painted on them.

Look for a pm.

 

[daypass72]

The car made built oct 05. The glow plug light is not coming on. I assume this is the issue?

 

[daypass72]

There is a relay in the ebox marked 458. On R1 then its bridged on r2. There is also a relay under the ebox

 

[DanG144]

That 458 relay can be the problem one. Can you explain what you mean by 'On R1 then its bridged on r2'?

The date and relay info helps, but really provides no assurance that my Bentley manual is correct. It helpfully warns 'CAUTION- Relay positions are subject to change and may vary from vehicle to vehicle.' And we have seen the variations before.

The fact that it will turn over, crank, but not start means yours terminal 50 relay is good (it allows the starter solenoid to pick up.)

That leaves two up under your dash, on the driver's side. The terminal 15 one in position 1, and the terminal 30 one ins position 4.

To get to these you have to remove two (probably torx 20) screws that hold the flat solid trim panel under the left dashboard in place. Use a small screwdriver to unlatch the OBD II plug from the panel. Remove the panel.

Then you will see the electrical system control module. You have to press on some locking tabs to allow it to unlatch, slide forward a half inch, then fall down. When you see the relays.

If you position yourself as if you were looking straight at the top of the relays with the long axis of the rectangle horizontal, there is a single relay on the left bottom - it is number 1, the terminal 15 relay, and it is suspect.

Moving to the right, there is a column of three relays, #4 - which may be the terminal 30, B+, J317 relay, if it is present, is also suspect.

 

[DanG144]

If we are lucky Jcrews will chime in here and help us out.

Dan

 

[daypass72]

Thanks very much for the info Dan, I got the car towed to my friends garage (heated) played around some more and I am now at the point of giving up. Looks like I have to get a rental car until I repair the car or take it to the hell hole dealership. It has to be a relay for the glow plugs since the light does not come on. from what I have read mine is a 2005.5. I have alldata and not too much info on there regarding my problems.. I pulled every fuse out one at a time and there is still a large draw, disconnected the alternator and its the same. I think a relay has welded itself closed causing the draw. Is there a way to test relays, the smell and some smoke came from the area under the steering wheel where the relays are located.

 

[daedalus]

You are almost there. Pull the relays mentioned earlier. The current draw should stop when you get the one that is now a brick.

 

[daypass72]

I can get the damn relay panel down to remove them,

 

[LukeWilson]

The glow plug light probably won't come on if the power supply relay is not working. The ECU controls the glow plug relay. Try and pull the relay as daedalus has suggested. When the battery is charged, does the rest of the car function as normal eg. power windows, lights, horn etc. ?

 

[daypass72]

yes everything works great no other issues besides glow plug light not coming on

 

[daypass72]

all lights work, horn, power seats, stereo, windows, seat warmers, the car cranks with no problems just will not fire. The car is inside a heated garage will it need the glow plugs to fire up? driving me nuts

 

[daypass72]

forgot to mention my scanner will not connect to the car, have used same one numerous times on my car without issues connecting to it

 

[DanG144]

The glow plug indicating light coming on with the key is a sign that all is well, there is power getting to the ECU, and it is at least functioning somewhat.

If the glow plug light does not come on, your car will almost certainly not start. Not because of the loss off the glow plugs, but because of the loss of the ECU.

If everything else was fine, you could unplug all your glow plugs and start your car - in the heated garage - or anywhere else it was above freezing (and probably well below freezing.)

 

[daedalus]

We are back to those relays. You need to get to them

 

[SamJammerTDi]

Good Luck.

 

[daypass72]

the thing is is there a way to test them even when i get to them? I\d hate to spend a fortune on relays at the dealer more than likely dealer only part?? and they are not the problem

 

[DanG144]

If one of them is the source of the smell, It will probably be very obvious which one it is. Besides the smell test you can pry the cover off of the relay and do a visual inspection. If one burned up it will be obvious. Actually most relay failures are obvious with a visual inspection.

 

[daypass72]

Thanks dan i will try and get those relays out tomorrow and report back here with what I find. I assume they are dealer only parts?

 

[DanG144]

The 109 relay can be bought at parts stores sometimes. Most others are dealer only, or internet purchases. I do not even have a clue what relay numbers you will have.

 

[daypass72]

UPDATE

pulled every relay out one at a time, all fuses again one at a time, disconnected just about every wiring connection, still a fairly large draw on the battery. I am totally lost here. Anyone have some gas and a match?? no glow plug light on the dash display all relays are fine

 

[gatheringgrounds]

glow plug relay

Which is the glow plug relay? My 2003 Jetta Wagon stops running periodically. I changed the glow plugs and harness, car ran great for three weeks. Glow plug light is on and car is having the same problems again. I will replace the 109 relay, as that is a hot topic. What else? Help.

 

[KLXD]

You should start your own thread. The '3 is different than the '6 so not much advice to the OP applies to you.

 

[gatheringgrounds]

Thanks

 

[BobnOH]

UPDATE

pulled every relay out one at a time, all fuses again one at a time, disconnected just about every wiring connection, still a fairly large draw on the battery. I am totally lost here. Anyone have some gas and a match?? no glow plug light on the dash display all relays are fine

could be a fried alternator, try disconnecting the B+ wire (big one) and see if the drain is gone. If so, have the alternator tested