P204F00 fault, VW has no fix!

[x1800MODMY360x]

Finally got the Kerma engine tune put in. So far (60 miles) so good. Seeing a ~ 5-6% jump in fuel economy. Also, so far seeing no need for a DSG tune. I like the way the stock DGS programming holds gears, upshifts and downshifts. The car just flies up over hills and has tons of power at light to medium throttle. As a benefit, the turbo whine I have been hearing for the last year or so seems to have largely disappeared.

For me the DSG tune made my car better as it wouldn't down shift unless I was flooring it and even then it took some time to down shift. Also going to a stop pretune would shift to 1st way early and cause high rpm, after it stay in 2nd even at low speed for a smoother ride.

 

[Tom in PT]

^ That's interesting. My car (stock DSG) will downshift at part throttle just about at the right level of engine load. It does like to hold gears and will climb a 4-5 percent grade in 6th gear at 50-60 mph but downshift to fifth if the grade steepens, without having to floor it, maximizing mpgs. My car will also roll to a stop at 1000 rpms or so and will only go into first if I am using a lot of brake. So I guess I would say the engine tune did not really affect the transmission and how it behaves at all, and for my needs the stock DSG programming is just fine. I really like the engine braking/downshift feature of the stock DSG, it seems to happen at the right time and with the right number of downshifts - engine will race to over 3000 rpms holding speed on a 12 percent grade in third gear, which is what I would do if I was shifting manually anyway. So, overall, I am pretty happy with how things are. Also, now after about 150 miles with the tune, no regen yet, I think. 52.6 mpg on my last trip (~85 miles), pre-tune for that trip is 49 or so. Temps around 60, light winds, 2 lane roads, some big hills and about 50 percent basically level, speed 60 and under, minimal traffic. 90 percent highway 10 percent city. When I gassed up after 260 miles the gauge was saying I was on schedule for a 900 mile tank. woo hoo!

 

[eugene89us]

When I got the engine tune, I still felt the shifts were not as smooth. Upshifts always seemed a little delayed. You'd feel the transmission should shift up, but it remained in lower gear for another 100rpm or so. DSG tune corrected all that. Actually, there is no longer as much engine braking as I can recall before DSG tune. And I was not always a fan of engine braking, since often downshifts were rough. Now it stays in 2nd until almost complete stop. When releasing brake from stop, it does not lurch forward anymore. I almost feel I got the smoothness of ZF 8HP transmission with a crispness of DSG when pushing the gas. But frankly, for Purposes of fixing the Official Fix that actually screwed up our cars, engine tune alone is night and day. DSG tune addition is just the icing on the great cake.

 

[Tom in PT]

^ Good report Eugene. Did the DSG tune affect your fuel economy?

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

So I guess I would say the engine tune did not really affect the transmission and how it behaves at all, and for my needs the stock DSG programming is just fine. I really like the engine braking/downshift feature of the stock DSG.

I mean if you are happy with the DSG stock, I wouldn't change anything. I left the engine braking enabled on my car as I got in that driving habit to coast to a stop in order to save fuel and brakes. I've seen posts of people having issues with the car, I'm still planning to keep the car as long as possible as I grew to love the TDI's.

 

[DCoartney]

I am not as familiar with Passat's sensor array as I am with my diesel BMW, but on a BMW (using Bimmerlink app) I am able to check DPF differential pressure. Of course it rises at higher RPMs, but in general it remains low. I would check there. If differential pressure is overly large, that could signify clogged DPF. Also check your calculated ash level.

...

I would let the experts chime in, but I would imagine that a clogged DPF would not allow turbine to speed up due to restricted exhaust flow. So it may not be turbo going bad, simply a clogged DPF causing issues. There are some places that can clean your DPF reasonably cheaply. And get you car back for a fraction of a cost.

Thanks, Eugene. I was told the DPF would not be available until September 1st, which is finally approaching. I tried calling the VW customer care case manager today to ask why she has not returned our calls or emails. She seems to have gone radio silent. I also had to leave a message with the dealership service advisor. We still wonder if we will need to hire an attorney to help us recover all the out-of-pocket expenses we have incurred for towing, rental cars, and unavailability of loaner cars for the five times this car has been in the shop since April. The number of days the thing has been out of service has far exceeded the number of days it has been on the road this year.

If anyone knows of a good attorney for TDI cases or Magnussen-Moss warranty cases, please let me know.

 

[13ckra]

I just wanted to update the group. On 3/1 I used my VCDS to clear all of the codes and then installed KermaTDI's tune. Since then I've put a little over 600 miles on the car and no CELs have been thrown.

I've noticed that it is much easier to spin the wheels now and more mid-range power when I go to pass on the highway. Also it now easily gets over 40MPG at 75MPH when I'm on the hilly interstate here in PA.

Looks like a good option for those that want to take it.

is this with a delete? Code just came on tonight… some say it’s the def injector and some say it’s just this issue… with the Kerma tdi tune does this get rid of that code?

 

[eugene89us]

Kerma does not do any deletes, they still keep the system intact, including AdBlue and EGR and DPF. They make some adjustments to a few things, my Bimmer with KermaTDI tune actually increased AdBlue use in order to keep NOx in limit while increasing performance. I think Passat did the same, though not to the same extreme. I still last over 10K between AdBlue top ups, Bimmer required them every 6K. I think there is some adjustment made to allow the car to operate within Federal emissions limits without this nasty silly AdBlue error. I continue to recommend it, and these guys will stand behind it if their tune does not fix the issue. Just reach out to them, I talked to Jason, and he put my mind at ease. They promised me a refund if I was not pleased, I won't take double refund now if they offered to revert it back.

 

[Tom in PT]

13ckra, iff your car is still under the dieselgate warranty, you should have the dealer fix this if they can - you might get some new (and very expensive) hardware out of the deal before the warranty is up; then go the Kerma tune route. I have 4000 miles after my tune installed in my 13 and this code has not come back. I agree with eugene89us's post above, except that my adblue useage has gone down, not up, but that may be due to a different driving style I have.

 

[DCoartney]

Here's an update on our ongoing saga:

We received our 2013 Passat TDI SEL back from the dealership this past week, where it sat since July 8, 2022, awaiting a Diesel particulate filter (DPF) from Ukraine. The diagnosis was that a plugged DPF caused the new turbocharger to fail after one month. The first half of 2022 was one failure after another between false AdBlue warnings, a leaking oil cooler, and two turbocharger failures.

Volkswagen has offered to consider our second buyback request with the submission of additional information. I documented the entire timeline of problems starting the week after we bought the car in July 2020 and submitted the requested documents. I will post the outcome when available.

 

[tikal]

DCoartney, I wish you the best, less stressful outcome!

My 2015 Passat SE is out of warranty, with DTC = P2563. I am taking it to a local independent mechanic later this month (I have another thread on my specific circumstances).

 

[DCoartney]

Our second buyback request was rejected. When I asked for specific criteria of a car warranting buyback I was told that it is on a case-by-case basis and in accordance with the lemon law for my state (Illinois), to which I replied that I should have been advised not to waste my time then because the Illinois lemon law specifically states that it does not apply to used cars. It applies to new car purchases only. "The Lemon Law DOES NOT Cover: Used Cars" (https://illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/lemonlaw.html). So, I suspect that VW was just obfuscating.

They did offer a $1,500 cash settlement for all the problems we have had with the car to date. We would keep the car with the remainder of its extended emissions warranty (approx. 8,000 miles) and release them and their dealers from claims against them for past repairs and service. We took their offer and received a check for $1,500. Since then, it threw a P2201 NOx sensor circuit range/performance bank 1 sensor 1 DTC indicating the need to replace the NOx sensor (which was done by the dealer in Milwaukee on 2022.04.26, less than a month before the turbo failed). I cleared the code 17 days ago, and it has not reoccurred.

Next up is getting it ready to sell.

 

[moon1234]

For the person suffering the "no rental" car from a dealer. Does the dealer have anything on their lot for cars? If yes, they have no excuse for no rental. If a third party rental agency does not rent to under 25 that is not your problem, that is the dealer's problem. The dealer has rental cars, guaranteed. They most likely do not want miles put on their car.

My wife piles on miles on a 2015 Audi A3 TDI. It experienced the crystalized DEF issue at the injector. They replaced the DEF supply line. Did not fix it and it is going back in middle of March to replace the injector. Anyway, the Audi dealer provides rentals from their pool of new cars. For the DEF line replacement they took the car on Wednesday and didn't complete it until the following Monday. Wife put over 1K miles on the loaner in that time, lol. They didn't say boo when she took the A4 loaner back, but the car had 352 miles on it when she picked it up. Audi must have to eat some of the depreciation when cars are used as loaners. The dealer sure isn't.

When we had them do the DSG service at 40K they did the oil and filter. That was a week of the A3 being at the dealer. Wife got a Q3 that time with 700 miles on it. She put 900 miles on it when it was returned. Same thing, they never said boo. We do have to schedule a loaner and sometimes wait a couple weeks to get an appontment that way, but it sure is a lot nicer piling miles on their cars vs ours.

I had a leaking camshaft cover on my 2015 Passat TDI covered under dieselgate warranty. I paid the extra money to do the whole timing kit at the same time. Was given a GTI from dealer stock as a loaner. Put 1000 miles on it in about 1.5 weeks it took them to complete the service. The only thing I missed was the manual transmission. They declined to provide a loaner with a manual transmission.

 

[DCoartney]

For the person suffering the "no rental" car from a dealer. Does the dealer have anything on their lot for cars? If yes, they have no excuse for no rental. If a third party rental agency does not rent to under 25 that is not your problem, that is the dealer's problem. The dealer has rental cars, guaranteed. They most likely do not want miles put on their car.

My wife piles on miles on a 2015 Audi A3 TDI. It experienced the crystalized DEF issue at the injector. They replaced the DEF supply line. Did not fix it and it is going back in middle of March to replace the injector. Anyway, the Audi dealer provides rentals from their pool of new cars. For the DEF line replacement they took the car on Wednesday and didn't complete it until the following Monday. Wife put over 1K miles on the loaner in that time, lol. They didn't say boo when she took the A4 loaner back, but the car had 352 miles on it when she picked it up. Audi must have to eat some of the depreciation when cars are used as loaners. The dealer sure isn't.

When we had them do the DSG service at 40K they did the oil and filter. That was a week of the A3 being at the dealer. Wife got a Q3 that time with 700 miles on it. She put 900 miles on it when it was returned. Same thing, they never said boo. We do have to schedule a loaner and sometimes wait a couple weeks to get an appontment that way, but it sure is a lot nicer piling miles on their cars vs ours.

I had a leaking camshaft cover on my 2015 Passat TDI covered under dieselgate warranty. I paid the extra money to do the whole timing kit at the same time. Was given a GTI from dealer stock as a loaner. Put 1000 miles on it in about 1.5 weeks it took them to complete the service. The only thing I missed was the manual transmission. They declined to provide a loaner with a manual transmission.

Both the Milwaukee, WI and the Peoria, IL dealers have a policy of not allowing customers under 25 to drive their loaner cars, not just the rental car company. Enterprise of Milwaukee was kind enough to rent to our daughter, but with a $25/day surcharge for her age, and only because they work with that dealership. We are still trying to get reimbursed for that plus towing charges.

The reason given for no available loaner back at the time was that they sold all of their used loaner cars because of demand during the chip shortage for new cars, and the remaining loaners were all either out while other customer cars were awaiting parts or the loaner cars themselves were awaiting parts. We did receive a loaner for the period of about seven months awaiting the DPF from Ukraine, but it was of little value to us because they refused to add our daughter to the authorized drivers list (even though their "rental" agreement stipulated that "authorized drivers must be at least age 21", which she was). They also verbally prohibited taking the vehicle out of state even though the agreement specified a prohibited use as being "
outside the United States or Canada, or outside the geographic area described elsewhere in this Agreement, if any"; there was no geographic area describe elsewhere in the agreement. Since the agreement specified that it constituted the entire agreement, there really was no restriction on us taking the vehicle out of state.

We had three different loaners: Taos, Tiguan, and Atlas. Our family despises SUVs, so this was not a fun time. I told the runner who delivered it that I would prefer an air-cooled Beetle over the Atlas, seriously.

 

[watatrp]

Our second buyback request was rejected. When I asked for specific criteria of a car warranting buyback I was told that it is on a case-by-case basis and in accordance with the lemon law for my state (Illinois), to which I replied that I should have been advised not to waste my time then because the Illinois lemon law specifically states that it does not apply to used cars. It applies to new car purchases only. "The Lemon Law DOES NOT Cover: Used Cars" (https://illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/lemonlaw.html). So, I suspect that VW was just obfuscating.

They did offer a $1,500 cash settlement for all the problems we have had with the car to date. We would keep the car with the remainder of its extended emissions warranty (approx. 8,000 miles) and release them and their dealers from claims against them for past repairs and service. We took their offer and received a check for $1,500. Since then, it threw a P2201 NOx sensor circuit range/performance bank 1 sensor 1 DTC indicating the need to replace the NOx sensor (which was done by the dealer in Milwaukee on 2022.04.26, less than a month before the turbo failed). I cleared the code 17 days ago, and it has not reoccurred.

Next up is getting it ready to sell.

Sorry to hear about your entire experience and what seems to be the upcoming conclusion. I too am in a 2013 and have had all the dealer "fixes". All I want is a car that will allow me to travel a few hundred miles away from home without the fear of not being able to get back home. I may opt for the Kerma tune as my next step. I still have a few miles and months before it is out of the warranty period. If the tune does not fix my random "no start" due to the Nox and def issues I may be following your "getting ready to sell" it route.

 

[eugene89us]

I guess at the end of the day, $1500 is basically half of what the car is worth. I requested Carvana offer just for laughs and it gave me $3500 offer. So I think that is probably as close as one can get to the buyback.

Don't take this personally, but I swear, some of you will go through headaches of dealing with the dealer over and over without taking into account all the opportunity cost of wasted time dealing with repairs and aggravation with loaners. I realize not everyone has the funds to splurge on a tune, but I hate to say this - this is the only solution. VW abandoned us with their dumbest Dieselgate fix which ruins out engines and creates situations with unsolvable NOx codes! The tree huggers think it is better to drive EPA approved gasoline trucks that get 17mpg than our "filthy" diesels that get close to 50, and would rather do "environmentally friendly" solution of sending cars to a crusher and using more hydrocarbons to produce replacement vehicles... Anyways, done bashing. Get the tune and start enjoying the car. It may stink a bit more in cold weather, but will still be environmentally friendly enough to pass the emissions tests and avoid giving you hard time about NOx issues.

 

[oilhammer]

...or just keep driving the older ones. No warranty, no loaners, no issues, no worries. Well, some worries. Parts availability chief among them, which is slowly but surely becoming more and more of a problem as time goes on.

But yeah, it does suck.

 

[Tom in PT]

Don't take this personally, but I swear, some of you will go through headaches of dealing with the dealer over and over without taking into account all the opportunity cost of wasted time dealing with repairs and aggravation with loaners

That is exactly my thinking too when I had this code pop up. The nearest dealer is an hour away. My time is valuable, wasting it with trips back and forth to the dealer and dealing with loaners was just not worth it to me. The tune was a way better solution.

 

[eugene89us]

Thank you, Tom! The thing about the tune is that it makes the car work like it was intended pre-dieselgate, maintaining its eco-friendliness, while also allowing for it to be absolutely enjoyable to drive. I will admit, I love my diesel BMW 328d, but after the tune, that Volkswagen is an absolute pleasure to drive. I borrow that VW every chance I have! BMW is a ZF8HP shush box, while TDI runs crisp DSG - second to none. I can spin wheels on a Passat much more easily than I can on my RWD Bimmer. Not only do you get a much more reliable car (in German terms, not Japanese), but you also gain the fun aspect of a sporty and enjoyable drive when you want it. Maybe with a tune, both of you Midwest friends will change your minds and decide to keep the cars after all. Fingers crossed? Of course I understand the bad taste in the mouth from 2 buyback rejections, at this stage I'd probably sell it strictly on principle.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

...or just keep driving the older ones. No warranty, no loaners, no issues, no worries. Well, some worries. Parts availability chief among them, which is slowly but surely becoming more and more of a problem as time goes on.

But yeah, it does suck.

When I got my Passat, in the area older TDI was a rare and expensive than what I paid for. I love my car and will continue to drive it as long as possible.

 

[iaiadimon]

This problem resolved on my wife Passat 2013 . 1st take down def tank, on the top you can found def computer. (Black box with two connectors ). 2-nd Check sticker if you see big letter X ( it’s the problem) original box for Passat go with big letter B. From bosh description module X- designed for Mercedes and BMW soft. X-module not property answer to ECM communication by K-line. I replace this module for B ( B-module coast me new 64$ Cad) I ask officiel VW dealer to replace module for my money ( where car have warranty) . Good luck

 

[watatrp]

Well I finally took the plunge and installed the Kerma tune today. Pretty much a flawless install. Took it for a short 8 mile trip just to see how it performed. The only time I've spun the tires on this car were when I was on ice or a fresh snowfall. Now I can spin the tires in first and second gear. Really surprised at the increase in acceleration. The hesitation starting from a stop is gone. I've got a road trip later this week and will see how the fuel mileage is. I'll give it a few weeks and probably do the DSG tune since the Qpro module can now install the upgrade.

 

[eugene89us]

@watatrp About time! Glad you're enjoying the tune, welcome to the Kerma fanboi club! LOL.

I had to wait for a special computer to be shipped to me for a couple of weeks, then had to remove everything on that side to get to the DSG connector. Glad the QPro is now the way to do this flash for DSG - much easier. Wait until Black Friday, they should have some discounts then. You get 80% of the improvement with current tune, DSG tune just adds more refinement and crisper shifting.

 

[watatrp]

Had a short 250 mile road trip yesterday. The Kerma engine tune did wonderful. Lots of power. No noticeable problems. My Scangage II was reporting 58 mpg at one point. Usually shows 45 mpg on this trip. I don't think it's accurate as hand calc gives 47 mpg. I do see an increase in mpg's. Not bad for mostly highway miles at 70-80 mph. I do see an increase in mpg's. Will take a few times getting fuel to get it recalibrated. I noticed some lugging when slowing down and then accelerating slowly. A few harsh shifts at times but nothing that would require a a DSG tune. Usually on this trip I have a regen at least once but didn't have one at all. I filled up def fluid before and after and maybe only used a couple of ounces. I do notice that the engine seems to get up to operating temps a lot faster. I do think that I will tune the DSG though just to get the whole package.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

Had a short 250 mile road trip yesterday. The Kerma engine tune did wonderful. Lots of power. No noticeable problems. My Scangage II was reporting 58 mpg at one point. Usually shows 45 mpg on this trip.

If you want extra Scangauge settings for your car.

Scan Gauge II XGauge - EGT & Boost

The polar failed after less than a year, the car lost communication completely. So the passat now has the scan gauge. Ouch that sucks, here are the values I just pulled from my SG2. EOT (Engine Oil Temp) 07E02211BE 0462051106BE 3010 00090032FE35 DEF (DEF Level %) 07E0221ABF C462851A36BF 3010...

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[Tom in PT]

watatrp, if you get the DSG tune please post whether the addition of the tune benefited or hurt mpg as compared to a stock DSG tune. I asked this question directly from Kerma and did not get a coherent, sensible answer.

 

[eugene89us]

@watatrp I noticed when I first did stage I tune, there were some shifts that felt either too early or too late, they were kinda rough. Stage II smoothed shifting a lot to match increase in performance. And I also noticed that in the past, the car would downshift from 2 to 1, causing significant engine braking. With Stage II, the car stays in second gear until basically I am completely stopped and then it downshifts to 1. That causes smooth natural deceleration, similar to slushbox transmissions. I like it, now I can actually coast to a stop sign without neck injuries. Haha.

 

[watatrp]

@watatrp I noticed when I first did stage I tune, there were some shifts that felt either too early or too late, they were kinda rough. Stage II smoothed shifting a lot to match increase in performance. And I also noticed that in the past, the car would downshift from 2 to 1, causing significant engine braking. With Stage II, the car stays in second gear until basically I am completely stopped and then it downshifts to 1. That causes smooth natural deceleration, similar to slushbox transmissions. I like it, now I can actually coast to a stop sign without neck injuries. Haha.

I reverted my tune back to stock so that I could send my info to Kerma with my DSG data over the weekend. Waiting for it to be sent back. Hoping to have both the engine & DSG tune installed by the end of the day. Looking forward to comparing the difference. I still can't believe that I'm getting more power and torque while improving fuel mileage.

 

[watatrp]

@watatrp I noticed when I first did stage I tune, there were some shifts that felt either too early or too late, they were kinda rough. Stage II smoothed shifting a lot to match increase in performance. And I also noticed that in the past, the car would downshift from 2 to 1, causing significant engine braking. With Stage II, the car stays in second gear until basically I am completely stopped and then it downshifts to 1. That causes smooth natural deceleration, similar to slushbox transmissions. I like it, now I can actually coast to a stop sign without neck injuries. Haha.

Engine tune reinstalled and DSG tune installed. Pretty nice being able to do it all w/ the Qpro. Initial thoughts, acceleration shifts are smooth. Most of the hesitation from a start was removed w/ just the engine tune but the DSG tune has removed it all. Deceleration is all smooth now. Did we have a gear indicator on the dash indicating what gear it was in before?? I never noticed it. It's there now. Seems to stay in 6th gear until speeds really get lower. Like you said, it stays in 2nd almost all the way to a complete stop. I don't notice any lugging with it trying to stay in the higher gear when it really needs to downshift with slight acceleration. I'll be doing a road trip this weekend and will get some more info on fuel mileage.

 

[eugene89us]

Yes, the gear indicator was added with DSG tune. It is nice to see what gear you're in for sure. Passat does a great job with its shifting characteristics. My BMW seems to upshift a little too soon with stage 2 tune. Being 8 speed ZF8HP transmission, it likes to go into 6th at 1100 RPM, which is its direct drive gear - and the dang car creates an audible frequency. I cannot keep it at 30-33mph, that is when it upshifts to 6th and just gets annoying. So for 30mph speed zones, I either have to drive slower to stay in 5th or break the law to get around 35mph where I don't get that resonant frequency in 6th. I need to find what the heck makes that vibration at that speed, it seems like I am the only one that has it. And funny enough, when it shifts to 7th or 8th overdrive gears at around same RPM, there is not such frequency. Wonder if direct drive has anything to do with frequency transmission.

And yet, I'd rather deal with it than stock tune. LOL. Kerma transformed both of my cars, I am a believer! I can spin my rear in BMW, and I can spin my fronts on Passat. And to be honest, Passat spins much more easily than BMW, I think that DSG is the cherry on top that makes this tune so awesome!