P0402 code will not go away. Help

CALL911

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Location
Indiana
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
So a while ago I started getting the P0402 EGR Wxcessive flow detected code. I would clear it and it would return. I eventually got a EGR bypass after researching that it would eliminate the issue. However it still is returning. I have cleared it 2 times but it still is coming back.

I don't have any idea where to go now. Thoughts?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You were misinformed if you thought bypassing the EGR would fix this.

Chances are you have a bad MAF. The ECU uses the MAF to calculate EGR flow. If you simply bypassed the EGR, you will have a permanent DTC forever unless the software is changed.
 

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
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Vancouver
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PD jetta wagon
Software is required to get rid of the EGR code and adjust airflow calculations. Car will run fine without it, but you will always have a code.
 

CALL911

Veteran Member
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Jul 26, 2010
Location
Indiana
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
The car had MAF issues earlier which lead to the new MAF. So I don't know if there is something taking out the MAF?

If it is a software thing, how much will that cost? The car has got 322,000 on the odometer and I am just trying to keep it going a little while longer without dumping more than I have to into it, but the SES light on is very annoying.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Are you using a stock intake? cone filters can damage the MAF and pass particulate into the turbo. EGR deletes are pretty cheap from all the major tuners.
 

Bengoshi2000

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Triad NC, USA
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2002 Golf (0M1)
I got this code after replacing my EGR. Turns out I had not put the vac lines back correctly. A rookie mistake that was fixed with a vac diagram and 5 minutes of time.
 

CALL911

Veteran Member
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Location
Indiana
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2015 Golf TDI
The intake is stock and I just use paper filters. I would prefer to figure out what is setting off the code and fixing it. This is what I thought I was doing when I deleted the EGR.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
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Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
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2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
At least from my perspective, these two things are kinda opposite of each other: :)

I would prefer to figure out what is setting off the code and fixing it.
This is what I thought I was doing when I deleted the EGR.
If you're trying to get to the bottom of your problem it might make sense to restore the engine to its original configuration... more likely folks will be able to help with a stock setup.

And, without paying several hundreds of dollars for an ECU tune you will ALWAYS get an EGR error code with a bypassed EGR valve, so there's that. :)
 
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Owain@malonetuning

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who's getting away with charging several hundred :confused:

Agreed that it's better to fix it, EGR deletes below freezing really affect warm up times if you ever find yourself in traffic.
 

CALL911

Veteran Member
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Location
Indiana
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2015 Golf TDI
I'll go with the cheapest easiest way possible. So let's assume I put it back the way it was then what? The code was happening this way to begin with.
 

UhOh

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The point is to set things back to a "stable" configuration so that under that configuration it can be properly troubleshot.

When a problem has one struggling it's often necessary to start from the beginning again.
 

CALL911

Veteran Member
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Location
Indiana
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2015 Golf TDI
The point is to set things back to a "stable" configuration so that under that configuration it can be properly troubleshot.

When a problem has one struggling it's often necessary to start from the beginning again.
I hear what you are saying, my point here is; "let's troubleshoot then". Give me something to check or to diagnose so I can get this fixed. Right now just bolting the EGR back on and getting the same light to return does not really solve anything. I can certainly put it back on, but my point is, then what?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
OK, in a nutshell, here is a quick rundown of how the ALH's EGR works:

It uses vacuum to operate the EGR valve itself, the vacuum source is from the mechanical vacuum pump at the end of the head, the same one that supplies vacuum to operate the brake boost, the turbocharger control, and the anti-shudder valve.

The vacuum is controlled via duty cycle of a solenoid on the firewall. Full ON and all the source vacuum available goes to the EGR valve, pulling it open. Full OFF and all the source vacuum is stopped, and vented to the vent side of the system which is shared with the turbo solenoid (which works the same way). This vent side goes to the 'clean' side of the air filter, right under the MAF connection.

The engine is just an air pump. When the ECU turns on the EGR, more air will be coming into the engine via the pressurized exhaust side than there would be with it off, and the ECU detects this via watching the MAF value. EGR off, MAF value is higher.

Now for some reason, Bosch and/or VAG got confused as to the fault criteria nomenclature for EGR, and all too often an "excessive EGR flow" really means "excessive MAF flow", and in actuality the EGR is not flowing enough, or at all.

Now if you have neutered the EGR system, we already know the ECU is seeing not enough EGR flow. So in order to find your problem, you need to put it back to how it left the factory. There is a vacuum diagram on a sticker under the hood, near the hood latch, although I realize that by now many of these are not legible. Luckily, if you search you can easily find this on the internet. Google image search "ALH vacuum diagram" and you will find it if you do not have a manual that has it. The ALH is brutally simple, and the EGR system is as simple as they come really.

Once you have verified all the vacuum line connections are correct, check the EGR valve operation. You can do this a couple ways. To verify the valve itself actually works, connect a vacuum pump directly do it, and pump it up. It should both open and hold vacuum (take the charge air hose off and look inside to see it opening...with the engine off, obviously). If that checks good, then move on to the control side.

Put it back together, start the engine up and run it for a couple minutes (depending on how cold it is, you may want to drive it for a bit).

Then, with it idling, but within a minute or so of it being higher than idle, pull the vacuum line to the EGR off...it should have vacuum, and the EGR valve should have been open, so when you pull that line off, you'll hear a change in pitch of the engine when the valve closes.

If you don't, then you need to see where your vacuum loss is. Could simply be a bad control solenoid. You can temporarily swap it with the one for the turbo and retest. We know the wiring to it is OK, or the ECU would have a different fault.

A scan tool will also show EGR data, via actual and requested MAF values (VCDS has it labeled). Remember, EGR shuts off normally after a couple minutes of idle time.
 

CALL911

Veteran Member
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Jul 26, 2010
Location
Indiana
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2015 Golf TDI
Thank you oil hammer for the detailed response. I have a feeling that the EGR itself was so coated in oil and carbon build up that it was not operating or moving. It was literally beyond bad.

If this is the actual culprit I almost would like to just leave it deleted and look to see how much the simple tune out would be for the EGR delete. Malone tuning, any input?
 

UhOh

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Dec 24, 2014
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2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Thank you oil hammer for the detailed response. I have a feeling that the EGR itself was so coated in oil and carbon build up that it was not operating or moving. It was literally beyond bad.

If this is the actual culprit I almost would like to just leave it deleted and look to see how much the simple tune out would be for the EGR delete. Malone tuning, any input?
If your EGR valve was that ugly then what about the intake? Head intake ports?

EGR valves are a piece of cake to clean.

I'd look to check EGR valve operation- vacuum test it (easy). If that valve is operating as it should then your EGR (assuming the ASV isn't flaking out) is fine. Then it would be on to verifying all the other air pathways: MAF was changed, so that would leave, perhaps, the snow screen (I don't recall a blocked one being able to trigger any real flow problems though- there's a bypass that opens up if the snow screen is blocked). And then it's on to the N75 and N18 and then...
 

csstevej

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north nj
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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Yeah with the egr bypassed it will throw a code as oil hammer explained.

If your not going to replace it and want to leave the delete on research the MAF twist, I've done it to al of my TDI's and works well.
I just recently did the egr deletes on four of my cars through Malone tuning and couldn't be happier.
With the MAF twist you will need VCDS so you can watch requested verses actual as you twist the MAF sensor in the housing.....leave the mounting screws out....you won't need them. It take about 10 minutes and doesn't cost anything as long as you have or have access to a VCDS.
It will take care of your cel.
 

NewTdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Location
NorCal
TDI
2003 Bora, Reflex Silver
A little late to the game here ... but better revive an old thread than starting a new one. Got a P0402 code. Cleaned the MAF with the MAF cleaner, EGR is clean and vacuum lines are good. One thing that I noticed (which leads me to believe the N18 valve is bad) is that when I start the car the EGR does not open/close (forgive me for not knowing) after the engine is running for a few minutes. The CEL wil come on after about 30 seconds. Any ideas?
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Perhaps your EGR was dialled back to 33768 years ago and its just now complaining. If so, I would adapt it back to stock (32768), see if the code goes away, then put it back,
 

NewTdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Location
NorCal
TDI
2003 Bora, Reflex Silver
Hey Bob, I did try that as well. I did the EGR adaptation and did not help. I ordered an N18 valve and hopefully that is the faulty part of the equation
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
The adaptation can cause the CEL, though it never did on mine. Check any wire/connects and vacuum hoses involved, pretty common as these cars age.
 
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