IP top and bottom seal how-to (?)

[raenglehart]

I'm going to play the tapping game a little more this evening. Still not sure why I'm not getting good reading with VagCom though. I'll update after tonight if I make any progress. As for the seals, like I said, 1 in a million shot I'll get the defect every time.....lol.....now to get this thing running proper. If only those odds would work for me with playing the Lotto?!?!

 

[runonbeer]

Make sure you are loosening the correct set of bolts. You have to get the lower set that secure the QA body to the pump case. Not the upper set that holds the top cover on.

This is a common mistake.

 

[raenglehart]

Yup, I caught myself a couple times last night about to do just that (getting dark and getting frustrated). Def an easy error in a rush. Getting ready to start now that I've got the coolant leak ID'd and part on order.

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[raenglehart]

Baby taps got me better. VagCom showing 920 rpm +/- 20 fluctuate, but IQ (actual) fluctuates from 0.0-2.6. Wouldn't it be pretty steady like in the video Part 7? Car/engine is a little shaky now at this setting. Playing with VagCom (educating myself) I chose other actual measuring values like Cyl #1, #2, #3, #4. I'm not getting a reading at all on Cyl #4. 1,2,3 all reading well within tolerance. Maybe another thread for this one.

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[raenglehart]

No codes detected though

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[whitedog]

I have heard that you will only see three cylinders on that engine. The 4th cylinder is the #3 injector.

 

[runonbeer]

in the video the IQ went high. I believe it was around 10-12mg/str. Which is also why it took so much cranking to get it to fire.
It would have been a good opportunity to have him shut it down in a fully primed state and demonstrate what a high IQ setting does to extend cranking time. Instead I just went ahead and adjusted and I don't ever think we got to see the engine start again. Add one more to the list of dumb mistakes I made in that video.

I don't understand why you can't just whack it up to 3.0 and move on with your life.

 

[runonbeer]

Just realized you are working on a 1Z. Very early ecu like that won't show the same values in 013 or 004 among others. They also don't tend to give very stable readings in 000.2 or 001 which is why the timing plot gives a big scatter. I think it is just the degree to which the data is filtered.
Still, the 001 number shouldn't deviate more than a few 10ths. if it is going 2.x to 0.0 you have a problem with that pump or you are still outside of the control range mechanically.

You don't need to look at 013 right now. You need to finish up in 001 and get a stable idle at 2.8-3.2

 

[raenglehart]

Me either. I've always been looking at group 001. I was just playing/learning what my VagCom could do once I got idle about right for tonight. Just not sure when idle is within normal range at about 920, my IQ isn't reading right. Heck, last night I think when I was still tapping and idle was near 1800 or so, IQ was still not reading steady but fluxing. I'm going to wait for my coolant hose and r2 that to fix that leak, drive it a while with what it's set at now and see how it goes.....check VagCom again since it seems to run fine at the moment. I appreciate all the advice runonbeer. I'm sure it's something simple I as a TDI newb am doing. Well get it sorted.

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[raenglehart]

Final update (good news). So, not giving up on my IQ flux/adjust issue, I went back to it his evening. Hooked up VagCom, let car get to operating temp, watching IQ, same as previous. Loosened lower IP bolts and began baby tapping towards the TB. IQ would flux less but then car would shut off all the sudden. However, it would start right back up no problem. I continued this 3-4 times until all of the sudden, IQ got steady at around 2.6 and idles smoother, did not shut off. I guess there was just a dead spot in the adjustment range after all that headache. Now my IQ is set @ 3.5 and that seems to be best. Also Idle got super steady and stopped fluxing at that setting as well.

Runonbeer, you can sleep again.....lol

Thanks alll for the continued advice. I know it gets frustrating. Sure was for me.

And I do apologize for posting in the Mk IV. Didn't realize I was until several posts in.

 

[BakoTDI]

Just finished with the Quanity Adjuster seal replacement. It took me a grand total of 40 minutes, not including the JB Weld drying time. Add anothe 5 minutes to correct a rough idle, and we are done, no fuel leak, more power better idle, and the best part, i saved about $1400.00. The local repair shops and the VW dealer all wanted about $1600.00 to replace (not repair) the fuel pump. I just might start a new business.

How did you correct the rough idle? is that a vag-com procedure? thanks.

 

[WillTheThri11]

Do I really need Vag-Com or VCDS?

OK, so I did the seal change thanks to the plethora of info here and from dieselgeek and runonbeer. I've seen this question asked previously but no one seems to answer definitively.

If the car starts up with minimal cranking and runs/drives fine, is there any risk of damage in not setting the IQ to factory specifications? Will the pump wear quicker, will mileage suffer or does more fuel just go to the return? I'd like to understand more what's going on here to know if this is a concern.

Question 2 (not really asked here previously and maybe belongs in the OBD section) but can i get the IQ reading out of a terminal command or any of the smartphone apps out there? I have an OBD II wifi module and only have the free EOBD-Facile app at the moment. I'm willing to pay for a better app, but I'd like to know ahead of time that it will actually do what I need it to do. Seems like VagCom/VCDS is specifically for VW/Audi/Skoda? Does that mean other companies or app builders aren't really catering to the german cars?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Molotov]

I spent more time praying, delaying, and reading the instruction several times.
I engraved lines and used a paint pen instead of JB Weld.

 

[Dieselgeek]

A paint pen might actually give you a reliable fracture zone sufficient to realign the quantity adjuster to the body of the pump. Hmmm. Engraving lines, not so much.

 

[TDIBiker]

Well, I did something wrong. Followed this thread and Dieselgeeks tutorials, and everything went smoothly. Couldn't get a good prime, so I replaced filter and T which was suspect from being the CAT filter mod. Came back and learned about the RunonBeer videos and read other threads. While I didn't think that I could have pinched an oring or installed a seal incorrectly, I couldn't be positive about the pin in the collar, so I pulled it back apart. I thought pulling the head with the QA off, like in the video, was a better technique so I was going to do that. As soon as I got the fuel sucked out of the pump body, I saw the broken plunger.

The only thing that I can think was my major failure was that I didn't turn the engine over by hand after getting it back together. I might have felt the resistance or heard something to make me stop. When I first cranked it over, I heard some metallic clacking for the first couple of turns, then it just cranked with no start. I could only get fuel at the #1 injector. I hoped that the clacking was just something seating, but I had a bad feeling I was wrong.

Anyone have a good condition 10mm pump that needs a home?

 

[JimInPB]

This is my first post. I just registered here for the primary purpose of being able to say a HUGE thank you to the people who contributed to this thread. It’s benefit to me was immense.

My local shop would have been quite happy to hit me with a 4-digit bill for installing a new injection pump, to cure my fuel leak issue. Using the parts, tools, information, & methods described here, I was able to do what needed to be done for a 2-digit price tag.

I was fortunate. My only leak came from the top gasket on the pump. After a little clean up, I removed 4 bolts (including the special anti-tamper bolt), let the fuel dump into a pile of paper towels, changed the top gasket only, replaced the 4 bolts & was done. I didn't need to mess with the quantity adjustment. I didn't need to do the JB weld trick. I didn’t even seem to need to purge the air out of the pump. I just turned on the key, let the lift pump run for a minute or so, then started the car & let it idle for a few minutes before taking it for a test ride. Everything seems OK. My 15ish drops per minute leak is gone & my motor runs as well as it ever did.

Thank You Very Much,
Jim

 

[JimInPB]

Looking forward, I do have one additional thought on keeping the quantity adjustment where it needs to be if I do need to replace the other big gasket in the future.

In the past, I worked as a machinist. At that time, I found that it was common practice to locate mating parts with dowel pins. Repeatability of 0.0001” was possible with a pair of ground pins in reamed holes. I’ve done this hundreds, if not thousands of times. I am curious if there is enough meat under the middle section of the 3-part sandwich, on the top of that pump, to allow me to drill & ream a couple of blind pin holes that do not protrude all the way into the main cavity of the pump. If the lower flange of the mechanical joint, is ¼” thick or better, I might feel comfortable reaming a 1/8” diameter pin hole 1/8” deep into it, without drilling through. If I did that in two places, it would give me a reusable & removable reference that I would trust for high precision relocation of the mating parts.

What do you guys think? Is there enough meat in the top of that pump body to make a blind hole 1/8” deep? Is this a method that is worth pursuing? Am I asking for trouble? Am I likely to destroy a perfectly good pump if I try that trick?

I don’t have VagCom, so my other options are a bit limited at this time. I do have reamers & pins just laying around in my shop.

 

[Dieselgeek]

Hi Jim,
You don't want to permanently pin the QA position with a dowel pin since it is a valuable adjustment point to compensate for internal pump wear. Using the JB-Weld method holds the QA position perfectly for changing the lower QA seal but it is not so permanent to preclude later adjustment.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2733762

 

[JimInPB]

Thank you for the reply.

Dowel pins are removable, so the change would be reversible if later adjustments were needed. If the pin holes were blind, I would see no permanent damage to the pump, aside from aesthetics.

I had considered the pins because I expect that the accuracy they provide would be better and more reliable than what could be achieved with the JB weld trick. Since I haven't tried the JB weld trick myself, I don't know that for a fact.

Based on your suggestions, I will reconsider my thoughts.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[52172]

Is my 2001 Golf ALH have a 7 pin connector or a 10?

 

[52172]

Has anyone tried adding atf to the tank to get the pump to reseal? If so how much did you add? Thanks

 

[52172]

Or, just drop some ATF in the fuel tank!? Please post the results of that crapshoot, Chuckmason!
Ronnie,
I don't drive that much; still on the first tank of fuel/ATF. (I prefer 2 wheels in L.A. traffic)
So far, I have witnessed the fuel spurting out of the side of the fuel pump on startup only. That is the driver side where a black box is attached. And I don't know if it is only cold startup that causes this 1 oz. +- leak. Maybe when the motor is hot, it does not leak. Will investigate further (when I next use 4-wheel transport).
As bio is now very hard to find here in L.A., I will no longer go back and forth (bio/petrol), like I did previously. I'm sure that was what got me into this mess.
Somewhere (in his bunker) Dick Cheney and his Arab buddies are smiling!

How much atf did you add to the tank?

 

[Dieselgeek]

JB-Weld works great, assuming that you have degreased the pump well enough for it to grab hold of the aluminum. There is a compelling argument to apply the JB-Weld before your pump starts leaking.

There is no need to over-complicate this. Folks have been using the JB-Weld trick since 2005 when we first discovered it and only a handful have said they had trouble with it sticking well enough.

 

[Dieselgeek]

Is my 2001 Golf ALH have a 7 pin connector or a 10?

ALH pumps have 10 pin plugs.

 

[Mongler98]

Is my 2001 Golf ALH have a 7 pin connector or a 10?

Poke your head under there and see for yourself!

Has anyone tried adding atf to the tank to get the pump to reseal? If so how much did you add? Thanks

this was posted 10 years ago back when these cars happen to only be 15 years old and we started to see leaks like this happen much more often.
Many people have tried MANY things; none of them worked or worked long term. You cannot fix a mechanical problem with a chemical solution! Nothing you do is going to rehydrate the molecules of the o’ring on your pump and even if you get it to stop leaking, it will just come back.
There are some good threads floating around here about how leaving a pump leaking like this, will total the engine. it’s happened before and it can happen to you, from damage to the IP on too much air entering the system to a coolant hose leaking down just enough from the fuel making the rubber swell and then an overheat ends up happening to you and you blow the head gasket and warp the head. The wiring can be effected and issues can drive you NUTZ trying to find out why she don’t work anymore because the fuel made the wire insulation brittle and now its broken (can happen much later down the road) if it’s bad enough it will swell the serpentine belt and if it goes bad it can (has happened to many of us) shred and take out the timing belt by locking things up, now you have bent valves and basically a totaled engine.

DO NOT PUT THIS OFF. I am not trying to scare you here but warn you that this can be a big deal in the long run. It costs like $10 to change the seals and probably a few hours for someone who does not do this sort of thing. Follow the guide on how to do this. Do not let the pump head go out too far or you drop a shim and you’re going to have to do an S’ton of work to fix it.

This is by far the cheapest way to fix this, put it off and you could regret it big time.

 

[52172]

There’s a diesel shop by me that will reseal the pump for 280 without removing it and it has no warranty. I’m debating going this route. Other route would be buying a used 11mm pump from Ryan in the UK for 460 bucks and paying the shop to swap it. Are the 11mm pumps a direct swap? There’s another guy on eBay in Poland that has a rebuilt 11mm pump for a similar price.

 

[52172]

Oh another question wheres the third round Viton seal I’m hearing people talk about?

 

[Dieselgeek]

Oh another question wheres the third round Viton seal I’m hearing people talk about?

The cast iron head has the 60mm round seal that we sell in Viton.

 

[52172]

Can I swap to an 11mm ip on my manual transmission golf without any issues? Thanks

 

[Dieselgeek]

Can I swap to an 11mm ip on my manual transmission golf without any issues? Thanks

Yes. But it would be a shame though to not fix the 10mm pump first since the only thing wrong with it is seals.