Fuel economy run

bestmapman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Location
Cincinnati, KY
TDI
06 Jetta TDI
Jason (compu 85) told me to post this to see if there was any interest in a fuel economy run at TDIfest 2008. If we get enough interest, I sure we can do something. I will volunteer to help in setting it up. Basically, it will be a friendly competition to see who can get the best fuel economy out of their TDI.
 

CoJoNEs

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Location
Cincinnati
TDI
2002 Golf; 2015 Golf
myself and RichC will be setting up the road course, if you want to get together on it let us know. I am not familiar with how to setup a fuel economy run, but am willing to work on it.
 

Hamsterdiesel

TDIClub Enthusiast , Veteran Member & HO5G CoFound
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
NH
TDI
1999 Golf IV, Black and now 2015 Reflex Silver Passat SE
In the past, the 'Fuel Economy Run' was actually the drive to the Fest. It was run on the honor system and people reported their numbers to Fred upon arriving at the hotel.

Wouldn't you need to run these cars ~100 miles or so just to see any negligible differences?
 

BRUSSELS BELGIAN

Old Whig
Joined
May 26, 1999
Location
Aston,Pa. USA
TDI
1997 Passat TDI
It's Mine!

Regardless of whether we do it driving to the Fest, or have a special run, or BOTH, the organizers can save themselves some time now by just putting MY NAME on the trophy!:eek:
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
1999.5 Jetta GLX TDI
This is a good point... the 30 min drive back from the rally won't really give us enough consumption to get accurate numbers. And seeing as the rally will force you to drive in a specific manor, I don't think that's fair to include in the MPG figures.

Hey, for the award, instead of who gets the max MPG, could we go for who gets the highest % over the original EPA figures for their model?

-Jason
 

CoJoNEs

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Location
Cincinnati
TDI
2002 Golf; 2015 Golf
since the EPA testing has changed on newer models, anyone with a new TDI will win for sure
Depending on the availibility and accuracy of the bioD at the fest the original thought was to fill up before the rally then immediately after and just compare the amount used (easier to compare $ then g actually ;)
 

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
To do it right it should be done like at the 2002 TDI Fest in Grand Rapids - everyone fills up right before start of fuel mileage rally and leaves from a specific start/end point with departure/arrival times noted along with odometer readings. Follow specific directions for route to be taken - use landmarks and avoid use of colors since a few people may be color blind. At the finish each car fills up again (Fest 2002 used a biodiesel tanker onsite for this purpose) with total mileage noted and all data entered in a spreadsheet to crunch the numbers/find the winner. It goes without saying each entry should be filled up the same at both start and finish for consistency.

B4V's should not be allowed to fill up at start, go for a couple of hard turns then return for a topping off followed by a "standard" fillup at the finish. I specifically mention this as there was some controversy over how the winner achieved his numbers since there was a loophole that was taken advantage of. (To be fair about it there was no rule about using loopholes either to gain an advantage.)

IIRC it was about a 100 mile run incorporating state highways, interstates, some local roads so it was a good mix of driving conditions/speeds.

It's not a fair comparison to do this as a "drive to the Fest" competition IMO since those coming from the east will have some mountains to cross while someone from the midwest is more likely to have flat terrian to traverse (which gives them an advantage) for example.

If you need to know more about how the 2002 Fest MPG rally was run maybe check with GeWilli as he helped organize it. I recall we had about 30 cars[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] participating - was an impressive sight at the start/finish line!
[/FONT]
 

bestmapman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Location
Cincinnati, KY
TDI
06 Jetta TDI
I am local in Cincinnati, so I can help with the set up. My feeling is to have about a 100 mile course. This will take about 2 hours if it includes city and highway driving. We could use a scanguage or other device to get the figures. That would eliminate the fill up problems. Or the other option is to weight the vehicles at a scale and that could give a very accurate reading.
 

vikingrob

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2004
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
04 NB TDI 6-spd Tiptronic, blue
Now the question is this: which route to take to the Fest. I have several options that come into play around Rockford: one option would be to take the Kennedy and Dan Ryan through Chicago, come out on the Bishop Ford, take 80-94 over to 65, and hook up to 74 at Indy; take the Kennedy, Dan Ryan, and the Skyway, and use 912 to hook up with 80-94; take 290 and 294 around the city; take 290, 355, and 80 around the city; or take 39 to Bloomington and 74 the rest of the way. Decisions, decisions....
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI, 2000 New Beetle
Rob, when I came home from the Wisconsin fest, I opted to go Rockford to Indy. Nice peaceful drive, only one toll booth, no insane traffic.

Looking at mapquest, I39 to I74. Longer, but worth it.
 
Last edited:

Rickstah

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
Yukon, Oklahoma
TDI
NB, 2002, green, Eurotek STG1
Has anyone ever hooked up a quart or gallon of diesel through the IP like we do when we use the injector cleaning procedure and driven a known distance until it dies? Admittedly this would mean you'd have to go through the restart process, but still...and I guess you'd have to make sure the cars were all about equal in weight, amount of fuel on board, etc...ok, probably too much work, I'll shut up. We did this back when I was in hs, but probably no one wants to run the ip dry :)
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
compu_85 said:
Hey, for the award, instead of who gets the max MPG, could we go for who gets the highest % over the original EPA figures for their model? -Jason
Oooh, I like that. The original EPA for my model is mid 20's.
CoolWht said:
B4V's should not be allowed ....
Oooh, I don't like that, though.
The top mpg competitor in the 2002 event withdrew from eligibility to allow another to have the honor.
 
Last edited:

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
LugNut: You're misquoting me - I never said B4V's should not be allowed in a mileage rally - rather that they should not utilize a certain trick in filling up the tank at the event start. I apologize if I am not remembering the details correctly on the '02 Fest MPG rally as it was almost six years ago.
 

Zippy_car

Trouble Maker
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Location
Farm country, Sacramento, CA region
TDI
Previously:'02 Jetta. Now: '13 Subaru XV Crosstrek!
We could always ask for physical evidence or "proof" of mpg's/percentage on the way to fest.

Get a recipt at the first fill up with a note of how many gallons put in and odometer reading at fillup (photo or written). Day, date, and time stamped (most reciepts already have most of this information). Then upon arrival, or next fill up - which ever comes first, make another odometer reading to document and then do the math. If you do more than one tank to get there (that's a lot of driving and you're probably going for the "farthest distance driven to the Fest" award also!:eek:) then take the best of the two milage readings. Winner get's the trophy. That's how I thought about doing it last year, but didn't get the opportunity. take from it what you will.

No documentation, no entry.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
1999.5 Jetta GLX TDI
Sounds good to me. Beyond the honor system we can't have much control over this. But if you cheat we WILL find out, and that would make you a very bad person (tm)!

-J
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
Keeping in on the honor system is the best policy.

Bring in rules and regulations and constraints and restrictions and I'll just find other ways to fully and exactly follow those specific limitations, but there has to be the complete understanding that what is not precisely forbidden is approved. I will make use of all the other techniques that I know.
The 2002 fest mileage run had specific instructions for the re-fill. There were no such limitations on the initial fill. The implied allegations of "cheat" and "trick" are disheartening to still hear 6 years later, when no rule was broken.
In addition, only one competitor was required to submit to a second post-event fill-up re-verification, and that was after the performance of the tight right turn technique which had been used at the start.
 

VeeDubTDI

Good Ol' Boy, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Do I get infinite economy if I ride out with someone else?? :eek:
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I expect to get 75+* in my 2.0l, P-D, B5.5 Tiptronic Passat wagon.





* km/imperial gallon
"numbers" mean nothing without units of measure to define those numbers.
 

bestmapman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Location
Cincinnati, KY
TDI
06 Jetta TDI
Hi all,

I just talked to Paula Toti of Local CH 12. She is going to aire a segment this Wed. July 30th at 5 o'clock on fuel economy. I told her that the TDIclub was holding TDIfest and that we were going to have a fuel economy run as part of it.

Is this something that you are interested in? If yes, she said I could contact her about covering the run.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I'm beginning to understand the hardships the TDI fraternity has endured while those of us with B4 have gone on completely oblivious.
What might have been a single tank weekend in my B4V is turning into a logistical undertaking worthy of an invasion because I'll have my B5.5.
I can't even make it to the fest on one tank! I'll have no choice but to stop to refuel somewhere about 600 miles into the 1800 or so mile round trip, and then again on the way back home about the same place, only to arrive back home nearly empty again!
Luckily there is a B100 retailer in the Youngstown area, the right range distance, that I can use. I'll need to re-confirm with them that they'll be open the Monday holiday.
 

vikingrob

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2004
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
04 NB TDI 6-spd Tiptronic, blue
Me? I am thinking about making the drive down largely at night, going through the Chicago area at about 2-3am CDT Thursday (8/28). I would have to depart the Twin Cities area probably about 6-7pm CDT Wednesday (8/27).
 

VeeDubTDI

Good Ol' Boy, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
bestmapman said:
Hi all,

I just talked to Paula Toti of Local CH 12. She is going to aire a segment this Wed. July 30th at 5 o'clock on fuel economy. I told her that the TDIclub was holding TDIfest and that we were going to have a fuel economy run as part of it.

Is this something that you are interested in? If yes, she said I could contact her about covering the run.
That would be cool. Get some biodiesel coverage in there, too.
 

bestmapman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Location
Cincinnati, KY
TDI
06 Jetta TDI
I talked to RichC last week and he said the fuel economy run would be an informal event. So here goes. I will set it up and organize it. The honor system will be used and it will be the mileage you get on the run in. Personally, I live near Cincinnati, but I am having to take a trip to Nashville on Wed. and return on Thurs. I will use that as my run. Here how it will be run.

1) Fill up before you start or at an appropriate point on the journey.
2) Fill up again when you get to Cincinnati.
3) Find me at the fest Bestmapman (Jud Engels) and I will record your numbers. If I can, I will have the sign in sheet at the registration table.
4) I will record everyones numbers and post a thread showing the results
5) Please record
___a) ODO miles start and finish.
___b) Gallons at fill.
___c) Type of vehicle
___d) Transmission
___e) Techniques used

1st and 2nd prizes

I have a 60" HP5000 plotter and I will plot out a 60"x60" full size poster of you and your ride. This is about a $200.00 value if you went to a sign shop.

Now the friendly challenge.

I have had the TDI for about 2 years. It has been my wife's car. My normal driver up to now has been a Prius. I have recently completed a Kilo (1000 mile) tank at 84.4 MPG in the Prius. Since July 30, anticipating TDIfest, I switched with my wife and I am driving the TDI. I plan to put up some pretty big numbers and use some of the same techniques I learned in the Prius in this event. I hope that some of you all at the TDIfest.

Without sounding arrogant, I plan to give all of you some stiff competition.

If you are planning to make a run, please respond here.
 
Last edited:

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I'm not clear on this. 1st place wins the plotter, 2nd wins a print from the plotter?;)

I'm planning on entering, and expecting that I'll not do half bad.
Or should I say, I expect I'll do half (of the 84.4, which would make my result) bad.

42.2 would be a personal best in this car, though.
 
Last edited:

bestmapman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Location
Cincinnati, KY
TDI
06 Jetta TDI
Nice try.
First and second prizes are the same. 60"x60" plots.

By the way, this is a real nice prize. The plotter is a 1200 DPI machine and will print out a very nice plot. All I need from the other winner is a nice pic or file and it will be a great poster. We can take the pic on Saturday, and you can bring it home on Sunday.
 
Last edited:

BioBob

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Location
Raleigh NC
TDI
2001 Jetta (G3F Donor), 2003 Bora
Economy Run

Count me in!

Coming from Raleigh, but will fill in Wytheville VA.

I won't be in the 84 range, but I'd like to crowd 70.
 

vikingrob

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2004
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
04 NB TDI 6-spd Tiptronic, blue
Do we plan to make it relative to the EPA highway estimates to account for variations between vehicles?
 
Top