European TDIs get 68.9 MPG?

q2quest

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Jan 14, 2013
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Santa Rosa, CA
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2011 Golf, 6spd manual
Forgive me if this has been addressed time and again, it's my first post on this forum. Just bought a 2011 Golf TDI and I'm thrilled with it. I read a review of the Golf done by a magazine in the U.K. and it listed the Golf as getting 68.9 MPG. In a different article it listed the Audi A6 2.0 TDI as getting 57.7 MPG. How can the Brits be getting that much better mileage out of their TDIs? Is it the restrictive DPF?
 

q2quest

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Santa Rosa, CA
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2011 Golf, 6spd manual
Ok, that makes sense. I forgot there was a difference between an American gallon and an Imperial gallon, but what about the other 14 or so MPG? Hey, I'll settle for 57 miles per standard American gallon! :D
 

MikeMars

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The other parts of it are:

* The NEDC test is more generous overall than the EPA test
* The EPA test is (in my personal opinion) unfair to diesels compared to other types of car
* European diesel fuel is highly standardised & good quality, the fuel you guys get is compromised by lower cetane ratings, & the winter mix.
* Your nitrogen emissions regulations are stricter than ours & hence has more of an impact on performance & mpg
 

q2quest

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Santa Rosa, CA
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2011 Golf, 6spd manual
Is that it then? Are the U.S. imported TDIs mechanically the same as the European cars or do cars in the States have extra mileage robbing emissions equipment?
 

jettawreck

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Northern Minnesota-55744
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Is that it then? Are the U.S. imported TDIs mechanically the same as the European cars or do cars in the States have extra mileage robbing emissions equipment?

Mkle can probably answer that much better than I, since he's on the other side of the Atlantic and has to be better familiar with the offerings over there, but the mechanical/electronics/emissions/drivetrains are often very much different than what we get over here. Some times we are several years behind what is released in Europe, and often we never get a lot of what they do. AWD, higher output engines, manual transmissions in models that are auto only for the US market, etc.:(:(
 

MikeMars

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Certainly for PD engines, they were detuned for the NA market in order to reduce the nitrogen oxides. For example, in Europe the 90hp 1.9L PD engine was a non-variable vane turbo, and the 115hp, 130hp, 150hp variants had the VNT. If I recall correctly, the only version you had was the 115hp engine detuned down to 90hp.

I don't know much about the CR engines... not sure if the same applies or not.
 

jettawreck

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Certainly for PD engines, they were detuned for the NA market in order to reduce the nitrogen oxides. For example, in Europe the 90hp 1.9L PD engine was a non-variable vane turbo, and the 115hp, 130hp, 150hp variants had the VNT. If I recall correctly, the only version you had was the 115hp engine detuned down to 90hp.

I don't know much about the CR engines... not sure if the same applies or not.
I think the North American version PD's were all 100hp engines, up 10 hp from the ALH VE previous versions such as mine.
But regardless, many more versions/options for European buyers.
 

Lug_Nut

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The 1.9L PD BEW in the Jetta and Golf was 100 hp.
The 2.0L PD BHW in the Passat was 130 hp.
 

jettawreck

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Northern Minnesota-55744
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2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Also different air temperatures.
What would that have to do with it. Both Europe and North America have about every climate known. Many are very similar and the cars are designed to work in all of them. Some areas such as California had emissions standards that made sale of some vehicles there not possible (or more likely not proftable to make compliant).
 

cevans

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The smaller circumference of the earth at that northern latitude means the miles are shorter too. :)
 

70MPG-goal

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The biggest difference is that imperal gallon vs american gallon. Take the Prius for example sold in both USA and Canada with the exact same powertrain. In Canada we use the metric system but also have the imperial gallon conversion in ads. In Canada the Prius is rated something like 80mpg!!! or 3.8L/100km. Whenever you log on "FUELLY" you can chose the mesuring rate you want and it converts it for you. USmpg, UKmpd, L/100Km. up to you. At least the miles are the same, just not the gallons.
 

70MPG-goal

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What can really affect real world fuel efficiency is the road conditions. Roads are better in NYstate than Quebec, Canada. So on smoother roads my milage is far better.
 

GoFaster

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Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta TDI
The main reason European vehicles have such low official consumption figures is that the European NEDC driving cycle (used for the test procedure) is even lamer than the EPA's test procedure, *and* the EPA arbitrarily applies a fudge factor to (supposedly) more closely align the window-sticker numbers with reality, while Europe does not. That, and a "gallon" (which is only used in UK! everywhere else uses L/100 km) is different than in USA.

Tuning differences and emission control differences between European and North American versions of the "same" engine are insignificant with regards to their effect on fuel consumption. The technological methods by which you achieve compliance with Euro 5 emission standards are pretty much the same as those by which you achieve compliance with US EPA Tier II standards, even though the testing procedures are different. Gasoline engines have EFI, three-way catalyst, narrow-band O2 sensor, EGR, etc. All that stuff is the same. The calibration differences are insignificant. Diesels have slightly different emissions hardware, but the difference that it makes on fuel consumption is insignificant. DPF (and its regen procedure) across the board, EGR (there are slight differences in hardware and calibration) across the board, oxidizing catalyst across the board, newer models mostly use an SCR catalyst requiring AdBlue across the board. Minor differences in calibration but that's it.

If you take an actual vehicle from the showroom in Europe and the comparable model from the showroom in North America and drive both of them the same way, they're going to use very close to the same amount of fuel, even though their respective window stickers are very substantially different because of the differing test procedures, size of gallons (if you are not using L/100 km!), and lack of fudge factor in Europe.
 

q2quest

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Santa Rosa, CA
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The main reason European vehicles have such low official consumption figures is that the European NEDC driving cycle (used for the test procedure) is even lamer than the EPA's test procedure, *and* the EPA arbitrarily applies a fudge factor to (supposedly) more closely align the window-sticker numbers with reality, while Europe does not. That, and a "gallon" (which is only used in UK! everywhere else uses L/100 km) is different than in USA.

Tuning differences and emission control differences between European and North American versions of the "same" engine are insignificant with regards to their effect on fuel consumption. The technological methods by which you achieve compliance with Euro 5 emission standards are pretty much the same as those by which you achieve compliance with US EPA Tier II standards, even though the testing procedures are different. Gasoline engines have EFI, three-way catalyst, narrow-band O2 sensor, EGR, etc. All that stuff is the same. The calibration differences are insignificant. Diesels have slightly different emissions hardware, but the difference that it makes on fuel consumption is insignificant. DPF (and its regen procedure) across the board, EGR (there are slight differences in hardware and calibration) across the board, oxidizing catalyst across the board, newer models mostly use an SCR catalyst requiring AdBlue across the board. Minor differences in calibration but that's it.

If you take an actual vehicle from the showroom in Europe and the comparable model from the showroom in North America and drive both of them the same way, they're going to use very close to the same amount of fuel, even though their respective window stickers are very substantially different because of the differing test procedures, size of gallons (if you are not using L/100 km!), and lack of fudge factor in Europe.
Brian, that was excellent! Thank you for taking the time to articulate all of that. It is exactly the information I was looking for. I can once again sleep easy. I was afraid European models possessed different hardware or something which gave the cars better mileage.
 

bulabula

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I didn't read this entire thread real close, but I'm visiting family in Denmark, and my cousins Volvo S50 1.6 l diesel auto shuts off at red lights to conserve fuel. Btw, fuel here is about $8/gallon.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

diesel4ever

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Sep 2, 2004
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Ontario
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Also, was the Golf's engine in England the same size? They have smaller diesel engines available to them. 1.6L is a common one.
 

GoFaster

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Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta TDI
From www.vw.co.uk with regards to the Golf 6 (not the new Golf 7 - different car)

1.6 TDI 105ps: 5.7 urban 3.9 extra-urban
1.6 TDI BlueMotion 105ps: 4.7 urban 3.4 extra-urban (this model has stop/start and aerodynamic tweaks and different gearing)
2.0 TDI 140ps: 6.1 urban 4.1 extra-urban

There is not all that much difference in consumption between the 1.6 TDI and 2.0 TDI.

For the Golf 7 (using the new EA288 engine - which all have "BlueMotion Technology")
1.6 TDI 105ps BMT: 4.6 urban 3.3 extra-urban
2.0 TDI 150ps BMT: 5.0 urban 3.6 extra-urban
 

MaddogTDI

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Jul 13, 2011
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MetroWest, MA
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2011 Golf TDI, United Grey, 6M
This chart can help take some of the confusion out of the American vs. Imperial MPG conversion as well as relate it to L/100km. The chart is read vertically... for example: 8 L/100km = 29 MPG (U.S.) = 35 MPG (Imperial).






 
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