Engine failure at 95k

[AllanJJ]

Well it finally happened, I got a legit diagnosis and the consensus is, a new engine and anything engine oil came into contact is being replaced, including the turbo.

in February I bought my 2013 Passat TDI SEL at 69k on a CPO from the dealer. Love the car, gas millage and the similarity’s and familiarity to my old B6 and B5 Audi A4s. Also love the story and uniqueness that comes along with the TDI badge.

Anyways, around 80k is when I noticed something wasn’t right. I had just taken it into the dealer for a DSG service (this was the only service I had done at the dealer, I did everything else myself following the maintenance sheet from the service center). I noticed that, what I thought was, the transmission slipping very badly on cold starts from stand still to around 30-40 mpg. Best I could describe it as is a rumbling feeling beneath me. I took her in to the dealer under the CPO, was told they didn’t feel anything, couldn’t duplicate. They reset the transmission module, and I picked up the car. The issue seemed to not be as bad, and almost went away for a few hundred miles. Then I moved from New Mexico to Southern California. Then the issue got worse. Much worse. I was genuinely scared in the first 5-10 minutes of driving from a cold start the car would either stall or go into limp mode. I took it to a dealer out here, for that and also a noise coming from beneath the car after turning it off from Long drives. That was a rattling noise and would stop if I turned the car back on to the accessory position and then off again. They had the car for three days and told me they didn’t notice any issues along with sending a scan to corporate for oversight. I picked the car up mad, and noticed the issue yet again leaving the parking lot. Not even a week later the CEL illuminated. I had a road trip planned already, over 2,000 miles. This was the reason I took the car in last week for them to fix the issues. Went on the trip, CEL turned off and came back on as I was 150 miles to home. Made it back, dropped her off at the dealer as I had my appointment for, and got a call the next morning that my entire engine needs to be replaced and anything oil related that has come into contact with oil will be replaced as well. So they’re going to have my car for a long time, and no loaner vehicle. I mean I am getting a new engine for $50 under my CPO so it’s not horrible, but just the entire situation and the way the dealers handle CPOs astounds me. I notice every single time at every single dealer the second I mention it’s a CPO customer service skills go down the toilet.

I was told multiple times there was no engine codes or any other module errors or codes. Yet I would always find at least 5 across multiple modules using my OBDEleven. I was convinced it was DSG related based on the feeling alone, but I never got an error code on the transmission module. I’m wondering if the emissions fix is related to this failure, Sending all that soot and junk back into the engine. Any thoughts ? More frequently changing the oil in the next engine rather than the 10k the service sheet recommended?? Once my 2 year warranty is up this is all my responsibility so I want any tips to make this engine last as long as possible. I’m extremely surprised by this diagnosis especially at 95k. My 2.8l A4 lasted longer than 300k, so 95k out of a VW product makes me anxious for the future of this car.

 

[mattbevans]

That’s a strange issue. Did they ever give you an explanation as to why the engine failed? Sounds like they just hooked it up to a scan tool and never drove it around. Really is surprising the nonsense these dealers can put you through.

 

[AllanJJ]

That’s a strange issue. Did they ever give you an explanation as to why the engine failed? Sounds like they just hooked it up to a scan tool and never drove it around. Really is surprising the nonsense these dealers can put you through.

Honestly not really. Just told me the entire engine needs swapped and any oil related components as well. When I pressed them about the exhaust issue beneath the car and the rattling his response was “let’s get this swapped first and go from there and see what comes up after”. Kind of p*sses me off because that could very easily be one of the causes and they’re just going to over look it? Guess we’ll find out what happens.

 

[AverageAndy]

Just curious, what error codes did the OBDEleven report?

 

[AllanJJ]

Just curious, what error codes did the OBDEleven report?

The engine has two, torque difference cylinder 3 P100600 and exhaust gas recirculating slow response P240F00. Break modules also has mechanical malfunction in suspension 03543. The auto scan also fails every single time it gets to the airbag module.

copied and pasted that from a Reddit post I made about it. I was also getting P2457 from my SyncUP drive (generic code reader) right before I took it in. I think that’s what caused the CEL to populate.

 

[AllanJJ]

There was more codes in other modules but I didn’t log or write those down as they seemed unrelated and from my battery dying. As most of them were related to low voltage.

 

[mattbevans]

I honestly wonder if you had either a timing belt fail or a roller/tensioner on the belt fail. I’d press the dealership for more info as it would be nice to know why an engine just up and failed. Well maintained engines don’t typically do that. Also if I understand correctly, the entire engine block and heads are covered by the emissions warranty so you shouldn’t even have to $50 to get that engine replaced. They should also get you a loaner as well. Just my .02

 

[AllanJJ]

I honestly wonder if you had either a timing belt fail or a roller/tensioner on the belt fail. I’d press the dealership for more info as it would be nice to know why an engine just up and failed. Well maintained engines don’t typically do that. Also if I understand correctly, the entire engine block and heads are covered by the emissions warranty so you shouldn’t even have to $50 to get that engine replaced. They should also get you a loaner as well. Just my .02

Thank you for this information. I will definitely be giving them a call back tomorrow to ask for more information on why it failed and will press further for a loaner vehicle. I did just look in the little book that was put in my glove box when I bought the car regarding the TDI emissions warranty. And it does state on page 9 “The extended emissions warranty includes parts, labor, and applicable taxes. If the warranty service is scheduled to take longer than three hours VW must provide a loaner vehicle”. So bet your a** I’m calling them up tomorrow for one. They claim enterprise says they won’t let me get one because I’m under the age of 25, at first they wouldn’t even let me get one at all (even to pay per day for) because I’m 20, and not 21. But you know what I’m gonna press harder. I’m done playing nice with them to be honest. Thankfully I didn’t rent one through Budget just yet, at $35 a day plus tax.

 

[oilhammer]

....in other news, countless VE and PD TDIs crossed a quarter million miles all across the country yesterday...

But seriously, despite the CKRA's troubles, it is odd that the engine needs to be replaced. I'd be curious as to why, too. I know they are EXTREMELY sensitive to cylinder balance/pressure deviation issues, to the point that they often need to have the injectors' numbers reset and re-entered to make them run correctly. And they can be bad enough that you'll have a driveability problem, usually worse when cold, often times sounding like the engine is trying to compress marbles for the first few minutes. I would think that, if gone unchecked, this behavior could certainly damage the engine. Improper fuel injection in a diesel can burn holes through pistons in short order.

Good news is, unlike most other TDI engines, VAG does list an actual long block for the CKRA, so you won't have a dealer tech trying to beat a losing warranty time clock putting an engine together for your car, it'll come that way from the factory. However, there are two versions listed. "New" and "reman", and the reman one does not come with injectors. The new one does. I'd want the injectors replaced, and of course the ECU to get those numbers re-entered. I'd also want to make certain the tech puts a new pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft, as DSG equipped cars use one, and normally the engine does not come with a bearing in the crankshaft. If they do not put one in, the DMF and possibly the input shaft/clutch assembly to the DSG will be bad in short order. I've had to fix that issue a couple times in the past.

 

[AllanJJ]

But seriously, despite the CKRA's troubles, it is odd that the engine needs to be replaced. I'd be curious as to why, too. I know they are EXTREMELY sensitive to cylinder balance/pressure deviation issues, to the point that they often need to have the injectors' numbers reset and re-entered to make them run correctly. And they can be bad enough that you'll have a driveability problem, usually worse when cold, often times sounding like the engine is trying to compress marbles for the first few minutes. I would think that, if gone unchecked, this behavior could certainly damage the engine. Improper fuel injection in a diesel can burn holes through pistons in short order.

Good news is, unlike most other TDI engines, VAG does list an actual long block for the CKRA, so you won't have a dealer tech trying to beat a losing warranty time clock putting an engine together for your car, it'll come that way from the factory. However, there are two versions listed. "New" and "reman", and the reman one does not come with injectors. The new one does. I'd want the injectors replaced, and of course the ECU to get those numbers re-entered. I'd also want to make certain the tech puts a new pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft, as DSG equipped cars use one, and normally the engine does not come with a bearing in the crankshaft. If they do not put one in, the DMF and possibly the input shaft/clutch assembly to the DSG will be bad in short order. I've had to fix that issue a couple times in the past.

when you say “reman” I’m assuming remanufactured? How would you recommend I go about asking them to replace those things if they aren’t already? Because even when I tried to press them about the exhaust cooler error codes they wanted to push that off until after the engine has been replaced to “see if that fixes the other issues”. So I’m thinking pressing them to give me a new engine vs reman, along with the pilot bearing and injectors, will be, simply put, a fight / headache. When I call to them today about the loaner car I’m gonna try to see if they’ll let me speak directly with the technician. These service advisors don’t know half of what they’re talking about when they call me back.

 

[oilhammer]

"Reman" means remanufactured, yes, but often they will send a new engine anyway. And they (the dealer) have no real say in it. They are not the ones paying the bill. Volkswagen will tell them what to order and what to install.

Speaking directly to the tech will give you better info, as the service advisors are often clueless about what is actually happening.

 

[AllanJJ]

Well I just called them again and feel like I got absolutely nowhere. He told me “the new engine will come with a new pilot bearing” “you don’t have to worry we’ll get it taken care of were professionals here”. And pressing about the loaner car I was told “I don’t make the rules or policies and enterprise said like I told you yesterday in this situation you have to be 25”. Currently waiting until his manager calls me back on that. I’m honestly beyond annoyed with this dealer. They’re not professional by any means. Hell, when I brought the vehicle to them the first time they didn’t even check the tire pressure and inflate it to the correct PSI NOT following CARB laws. Every single tire was 10 PSI under pressure. And I’m expected to think they’re gonna have me taken care of. Technically they HAVE to provide me a loaner correct? The warranty booklet states NOTHING about having an age limit on loaner cars and specifically states if the service is longer than 3 hours I’m to get a loaner car. I’m not sure I’m understanding the issue but someone is lighting a fire under my a** I’ll say that much.

 

[red4kcsq]

If they cannot get you a loaner because of the rental company policies then then will need to give you a courtesy car from their lot. If they give you push back call VWOA, 800-822-8987. Nowhere in the emissions warranty booklet does it give a stipulation on the vehicle owners age dictating if you receive a loaner.

 

[AllanJJ]

I just spent around 4 hours on the phone, mostly on hold, with VW care. This would be the second time doing that. Apparently the first rep I spoke to last week didn’t input any of my contact information I gave to her so that’s their reasoning as to why the regional manager didn’t contact me on Tuesday. So whatever she took my information down and said he’d be reaching out by tomorrow afternoon. I tried to fight this and asked numerous times to speak to someone today. Nothing happened. And I’m waiting for a call tomorrow on the issue. I did bring up the loaner car issue numerous times as well and her response (as well as the first rep from last week) was that it’s up to the dealers discretion as to loaner car stipulations and such. I re-enforced the idea that this is court ordered terms and they’re breaking court orders by not providing me with a loaner car. Still didn’t care. After that call I was finally contacted by the dealership manager. He’s collected my insurance information as of now and is trying to reach out to the rental companies on getting me a car. So I’m hoping things continue to move forward in the correct direction. He’s also told me he’s going to get documentation from my visits with them recently, review them, and speak with the service advisors and techs about what is truly going on and touch base with me about everything once he has that information. I’m assuming by the end of today. This could just be all talk and no action so I will update as the situation progresses.

 

[Tom in PT]

WOW. IF they don't make this right for you today all I can say is VW's treatment of you in this situation is just awful. One more reason why I will never buy another one. There's been far to many instances of VW balking at their warranty obligations, they have to honor ALL OF THEM including the loaner.

 

[oilhammer]

The engine may be getting replaced under the CPO warranty, not the emission fix warranty, so that may be part of it. It is also fairly common knowledge that rentals/loaners are not given out in many states to people under 25, although I am not sure how that overrides a specific warranty clause without being mentioned. In any event, the dealer *could* cough up on of the 50+ dealer plates they have and slap it on one of the 100+ used cars they have and at least get you something to drive.

I've never allowed myself to be backed into the corner of only having one means of transportation, so I've never been in your situation. I suppose you could get someone older to rent a car for you but you'd be getting that person in trouble (as well as yourself) if something happened.

 

[AllanJJ]

Okay so... I got a loaner last night. The manager finally reached out to me as I mentioned yesterday. He said he was able to, according to him, for the first time in 12 years of working there, get budget to rent me a car being under 21. I also love how he was the first person to be real with me on an estimated time frame. He said I was looking at 2-3 months in the shop. And they weren’t going to try to get me a loaner ?!?!?! He said they have at least 6 other TDIs in for engine replacements as well and those have all taken around that time as he said they have long waiting periods for certain random parts. As far as them not diagnosing the issue the first time he said the technician did a scan and there was never any codes the first time. Which I do find hard to believe simply because I was finding codes in the generic code reader (SyncUP drive), codes that I even told them about. He also tried to justify the PSI issue as the techs gauge wasn’t calibrated. Basically just sweet talked me. I also tried to press him more on what went wrong, he told me they don’t know what specifically caused this engine to fail, and they won’t know. As he said VW doesn’t pay for the tear down of the engine to diagnose the issue. They found metal in the oil and VW told them to replace it. That’s all I will know according to him.

customer service wise, going to pickup the loaner was very awkward. I could tell the service tech was very mad that I went above his head to his manager about this. He was very short with me, didn’t say much. But I really don’t care. Just the fact that he was telling me 10 days for parts when he knew damn well that was a lie and I was looking at 2-3 months without my car. Still never got a call back from corporate or the regional manager. Not surprisingly. As long as I have a car, and they gave me a 2020 Passat so no complaints there, they can keep my car as long as they need. But don’t put me in a situation where I’m gonna be out my only car for that long. I moved out here to SoCal by myself, I don’t have those friends or family connections to get rides and things. And I’m not taking an Uber around given Covid times. Not to mention I have to go to laundromats to do laundry. I’m not gonna haul bags of laundry around on my electric scooter. Or pay $100 a day to rent a car and to do laundry.

Responding to the part about the age restriction, the state of California has absolutely no age restrictions when it comes to rental vehicles. None. That’s why I can go to budget, enterprise, hertz, basically any of them and get a rental car from them. The age restrictions are up to the lending company. And most will still lend to those under 21 they just have to pay an underage driver fee. Which being an USAA insurance member, most of the time these fees have been waived for me.

I hate being made out to be irresponsible or dumb because I’m young and then taken advantage of for it. I know more about working on cars, specifically Audi / VW, than most of the service advisors in that building. I may only be 20 but I’m pretty smart and I’m out here living alone as a fully functional independent adult. I pay my monthly car payment, I bought the car all by myself, I pay for my insurance all by my self, so why should I receive anything less than someone who is older than 25, I’m just as much an adult as they are. Like you guys said, if the rental companies wouldn’t do it, then they would need to give me a car off their lot till I get mine back. 3 months...smh.....

 

[shuck]

Do you have your car back yet?

 

[Fixmy59bug]

Do you have your car back yet?

Looking at their profile, the last time they were here was in December. I wouldnt expect to see an answer.

 

[AllanJJ]

Looking at their profile, the last time they were here was in December. I wouldnt expect to see an answer.

Nope still in the loaner car. Expected arrival time for the parts has now moved to late April - mid may.

 

[thundershorts]

Somewhere I read turbos were backordered for those engines, that may be the delay, perhaps it was the turbo that puked and damaged the engine. Backorders probably filled in order they were placed.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

As far as I know there are zero turbos, new or reman, available for the CKRA. Haven't been for months. If the engine is being replaced a new engine may include a turbo. otherwise I don't think you'll see turbos for at least a month. My last conversation with our B-W distributor indicated that B-W plans to have parts late this month. But when turbos will be assembled and shipped is still unknown.

 

[AllanJJ]

As far as I know there are zero turbos, new or reman, available for the CKRA. Haven't been for months. If the engine is being replaced a new engine may include a turbo. otherwise I don't think you'll see turbos for at least a month. My last conversation with our B-W distributor indicated that B-W plans to have parts late this month. But when turbos will be assembled and shipped is still unknown.

Yup it’s the turbo we’ve been waiting on since I dropped the car off in October. They have everything they need except the turbo at this point as it’s been for months now. The date just keeps getting pushed back and back and back. Now we’re looking at late April to mid may. They don’t know the reason the engine failed. Just know they found metal in the engine oil and bottom of the oil pan and VW corp triggered an engine replacement with no breakdown to find the cause. I do know I was getting torque differences on cylinder 3 codes prior to all this happening, that’s about all.

They had me in a baseline 2020 Passat since October and I called them when the odometer reached around 9.5k to let them know the 10k service was coming up on it. Told me “oh don’t worry about that, we’ll get to it later...”. Around last week they called me and asked me to bring it in to swap it for something else since the tags expire this month. Brought it in at 13k this past Monday and got put into a 2020 Atlas Cross Sport SEL V6. Think I’ll keep the Atlas and they can keep my 13’ Passat lmao, I’m loving this Atlas....a lot...

 

[AllanJJ]

Posted this in another thread I have but figured I’d copy and paste it into here as well incase anyone stumbles upon this one and wants to know the final outcome:


Update! Finally got my car back yesterday. The service manager called me on Wednesday to let me know my battery was completely dead, that they tried charging it overnight and it failed to hold a charge. Not surprised by this. The cars been sitting for months. When I went to swap loaner cars I got some stuff from my trunk and the battery was dead dead. I had to manually unlock the doors and pop the trunk manually. He wanted $250 to replace it. I declined saying I could get one cheaper elsewhere. When I finally went to go pickup my car, as he was handing me the keys, said they went ahead and replaced it for free for me since the battery kept needing to be jumped and the car had been with them for so long. Sounds about right, wasn’t expecting that but it was very appreciated. My experience with the dealer themselves wasn’t that bad. In the beginning it was very frustrating because they refused me a loaner car. But after we got that sorted out the dealer was on top of everything else. Corporate however, I can’t stand. Zero customer service skills, and definitely didn’t do me right for all of this. Very slow moving and lacked communication the entire time. I need to reach back out to the case manager at corporate to discuss extending my CPO warranty now, as I now only have 9 months or so left on it, and it’s been sitting at the dealer for 7+ months. We’ll see how that goes. Overall just glad to finally have my own vehicle back. I know she’s gonna end up back at the dealer however. There was problems with the exhaust cooling system on the bottom of the car, and I’m pretty sure my heater core is starting to get clogged yet again, it’s already been replaced in the first week of ownership. Both of these were mentioned in my first appointment back in October but they refused to do those until after the engine was replaced to “see if this resolves those issues first”. So we’ll see if this 1k+ mile road trip to Texas will cause a CEL to illuminate.

side note, it’s been so long since I’ve seen my engine bay on this car, but just from a quick general look under there it does look kinda botched. Like ripped heat shielding not properly attached. And I swear the top cover where the engine oil fill spot is looks really weird and different. Like the cover doesn’t fit right anymore or something. Whatever though. As long as it runs and I don’t have an issue I don’t care

 

[AverageAndy]

Glad to hear you finally got your car back!

And I swear the top cover where the engine oil fill spot is looks really weird and different. Like the cover doesn’t fit right anymore or something.

There is a round rubber piece that press fits around the neck of the oil filler. It is easy to pull off for cleaning and can just as easily be put back on correctly or cockeyed. Maybe this is creating the weird look?

 

[AllanJJ]

Glad to hear you finally got your car back!



There is a round rubber piece that press fits around the neck of the oil filler. It is easy to pull off for cleaning and can just as easily be put back on correctly or cockeyed. Maybe this is creating the weird look?

I think that’s it. Mines missing the rubber neck completely so it looks like the cover is lifted to far up.