E320 CDI WVO conversion

[Dave_D]

Believe it or not, someone has decided to install a WVO conversion on a 2005 E320 CDI! I saw a reference to this on the Infopop BioDiesel forums. The owner has started a blog on the conversion here:

http://e320conversion.blogspot.com/


The thread on Infopop is here:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/1391072152?r=1391072152

 

[diesel-dave]

wow isn't that a CRD? Can you run waste oil in that?

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

We will see how long it works. From everything I've read many of the newer CRD engine don't like SVO, or WVO.

 

[Rexking414]

I know that on the newer Touareg's and the upcoming TDI's for one with the DPF it can't take WVO or SVO exhaust, it'll break it. I don't know if the CDI has one or not.

 

[Drivbiwire]

The CDI has a turbo mounted DPF, the 2008 has a DPF and LNT for 50 state emissions compliance.

WVO will destroy this motor in short order.

By the way $575 per injector (6 injectors) and $3,000 for the high stage pump.

WVO will break down VERY rapidly in the rail due to very high fuel temps and storage above the engine under high pressure. The varnish and gums that will form will require replacement of all the components and no amount of cleaning will get them out of the motor.

Nozzles are a 7 hole Common Rail injector.

$18,000 for a crate motor, let him knock himself out! The car will be worthelss once he runs 1oz of oil thru it.

DB

 

[T'sTDI]

The CDI has a turbo mounted DPF, the 2008 has a DPF and LNT for 50 state emissions compliance.

WVO will destroy this motor in short order.

By the way $575 per injector (6 injectors) and $3,000 for the high stage pump.

WVO will break down VERY rapidly in the rail due to very high fuel temps and storage above the engine under high pressure. The varnish and gums that will form will require replacement of all the components and no amount of cleaning will get them out of the motor.

Nozzles are a 7 hole Common Rail injector.

$18,000 for a crate motor, let him knock himself out! The car will be worthelss once he runs 1oz of oil thru it.

DB

You don't know any of that as true or not. For all we know and for all you know it could do very well. Only thing that would be a concern of mine would be the DPF. Although I do agree thats really expensive stuff to be experimenting with....

I think we can all agree that the guy is a bit foolish for doing this on an 05 Mercedes. Chances are the guy has money if he has and 05 so why would he convert it to veggie I would think he has plenty of money to fil it up every week.

If he's that cheap, it would make a lot more sense if he did it on an older on or a TDI. A CRD with DPF....I would never do it.

 

[philngrayce]

There are folks running WVO in comon rail diesels with just a catalytic converter; done right it seems to work fine.

We are preparing to convert our Jeep Liberty CRD.

 

[bluesmoker]

There are folks running WVO in comon rail diesels with just a catalytic converter; done right it seems to work fine.

We are preparing to convert our Jeep Liberty CRD.

LOL, I can't wait to hear the results.......

Waste oil kills modern diesel engines, just check some of my posts, the peer reviewed scientific studies clearly demonstrate this.

But it is a free country, so you are free to destroy your engines

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2042224#post2042224

 

[40X40]

Oh Lordy, Here we go again.

"You can't, here is why"
"Can too, you don't know!"

Subscribed.

Bill

 

[dlai]

You don't know any of that as true or not. For all we know and for all you know it could do very well. Only thing that would be a concern of mine would be the DPF. Although I do agree thats really expensive stuff to be experimenting with....

I think we can all agree that the guy is a bit foolish for doing this on an 05 Mercedes. Chances are the guy has money if he has and 05 so why would he convert it to veggie I would think he has plenty of money to fil it up every week.

If he's that cheap, it would make a lot more sense if he did it on an older on or a TDI. A CRD with DPF....I would never do it.

DBW probably knows. He owns a Mercedes CDI himself...

 

[BioDiesel]

Bunch of M-B CDI conversions...

http://rapsdb.rapsinfo.de/view.php?offset=520&sort=MotorTyp&marke=Mercedes

 

[bluesmoker]

http://rapsdb.rapsinfo.de/view.php?offset=520&sort=MotorTyp&marke=Mercedes

how about an english version, I don't read german

can the page be translated??

 

[93FryGuy]

There are folks running WVO in comon rail diesels with just a catalytic converter; done right it seems to work fine.

We are preparing to convert our Jeep Liberty CRD.

Yes, the Liberty CRD has been converted before
See here

 

[BioDiesel]

translated:
http://translate.google.com/transla...Typ&marke=Mercedes&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

more:
http://translate.google.com/transla...Typ&marke=Mercedes&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

 

[RC]

This experiment should be interesting.

 

[DPM]

Yup. Even quality bio is unpredictable under 1300-plus Bar pressures.

 

[philngrayce]

LOL, I can't wait to hear the results.......

Waste oil kills modern diesel engines, just check some of my posts, the peer reviewed scientific studies clearly demonstrate this.

But it is a free country, so you are free to destroy your engines

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2042224#post2042224

All those studies in that post seem to be from the early eighties, except for one. That one was from the nineties, and found no damage from 100% WVO. DO you have any more relevant references?

The TDI is a modern diesel engine and seems just fine with WVO.

 

[philngrayce]

DBW probably knows. He owns a Mercedes CDI himself...

Has he run WVO in that car? If not, how would he know?

 

[DPM]

massive differences between distributor-pump engines and CR- units. As well as incredibly high rail pressures, high sustained fuel temperatures occur. The injectors also are very complex. Solenoid or piezo controlled yes, but via a hydraulic servo system using orifices and checkvalves. The pintle is positively driven by fuel pressure rather than having a sprung "pop-pressure". Anything which alters the fine balance of flows within the injector's servo (viscosity, particulates, residues) will affect injection quality AND quantity.

 

[T'sTDI]

massive differences between distributor-pump engines and CR- units. As well as incredibly high rail pressures, high sustained fuel temperatures occur. The injectors also are very complex. Solenoid or piezo controlled yes, but via a hydraulic servo system using orifices and checkvalves. The pintle is positively driven by fuel pressure rather than having a sprung "pop-pressure". Anything which alters the fine balance of flows within the injector's servo (viscosity, particulates, residues) will affect injection quality AND quantity.

Enlighten me on Mercedes setup but that sounds very similar to a Powerstroke with its HEUI injection system..no??? High pressure oil pump produces the pressure to achieve the PSI needed and a solenoid actuates causing the injectors to spray??? Again I am unfamilar with the newer Mercedes... Sounds like there might be a bit more with the hydraulic servo and the checkvalves...pretty unique setup.

If thats the case though.... that sounds to me like it wouldn't be that bad of a setup. Sounds to me like there is no IP to fail.... but also because theres such a more fine tune to this engine, it even more brings about the importance of doing it right. You would really need to have ideal filtering and heating habits I think to do it right.

The higher pressures (hopefully the heating is right) would lead to better atomization which is always a plus. A better burn wouldn't lead to so much problems that occur in the block. Problems could arise on the business fuel end if your not careful. When and how many miles those problems would arise is unproven. 10k or 200k no one can tell you that unless they do it.

I agree, if DW don't have any experience burning VO in his, then he can't comment on how the Merc would react to burning a new fuel. There was probably a time when we all said it couldn't be done on a TDI

 

[DPM]

There IS a pump, it's a 3-piston radial setup using tiny steel balls as the valves. More in common with an HPLC system than a diesel, really. Rail pressures are controlled by a leakoff solenoid on the rail or in the pump depending on model. It's rather different to HEUI.

Any lack of control/ failure to reach specified values for rail pressure or IQ will be flagged with the ECU and given the orifice sizes involved viscosity is a real issue.

try this:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=98898

 

[T'sTDI]

There IS a pump, it's a 3-piston radial setup using tiny steel balls as the valves. More in common with an HPLC system than a diesel, really. Rail pressures are controlled by a leakoff solenoid on the rail or in the pump depending on model. It's rather different to HEUI.

Any lack of control/ failure to reach specified values for rail pressure or IQ will be flagged with the ECU and given the orifice sizes involved viscosity is a real issue.

try this:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=98898

Thanks for the enlightenment, certainly heated VO is no where near the temps needed to equal the viscosity of diesel. I think the temp that you need is upwards to 300 deg and no kit uses that kind of temperature, probably wouldn't want to anyways.

I can see how it could be a big issue, it would burn it but not for long. Plus the DPF is a big problem. These newer cars are getting way too messy with Emission controls and even more fine tuning of the fuel system. I think most will agree to not try and convert the newer cars. Veggie is best used for IDIs and some of the TDIs.

Although if you want to more power to you, just as long as its not my car

 

[toastblows]

ok we get it, hes a moron and a genious...now can we just watch this rich A-hole possibly ruin his sweet ride...

1 vote yes here.

 

[philngrayce]

Let's be sure and congratulate his courage and insight if he is successful.

 

[Dave_D]

Let's be sure and congratulate his courage and insight if he is successful.

I'm not gonna hold my breath for that one. Last time I took a look at the infopop thread he was having problems getting the WVO up to operating temperature. At least he seems to be taking a cautious approach.

 

[philngrayce]

It does appear he is doing a thoughtful, careful conversion. Increasing the fuel temperature is not a difficult problem; it is probably solved by now.

 

[Rexking414]

Tell ya what, If that dude can get his 320 CDI engine to last as long as DBW's or 200,000 miles without replacing anything not related to maintenance I'll donate $100 to this site to compensate for the bandwidth this section uses alone.

 

[mrGutWrench]

Yes, the Liberty CRD has been converted before
See here

__. Does the CRD have the high-quality "VM"???? Didn't they discontinue that engine because of poor performance and reliability eek: SURPRIZE, SURPRIZE!!!! )? Sounds like a fine platform for an experiment.

__. I await the stories with bated breath ...

 

[philngrayce]

The engine is no longer offered in the new Liberty, but I never heard it was a performance or reliability issue. The performance is fine. There were some issues with the transmissions in the '05's but they seem to have been solved.

 

[BioFuelsDude]

The engine is no longer offered in the new Liberty, but I never heard it was a performance or reliability issue. The performance is fine. There were some issues with the transmissions in the '05's but they seem to have been solved.

Once recalls are done, its a good to go SUV. They pulled it because the liberty 2.8L four banger was not going to be able to meet the 2010 emission standards. Before VM motori was sold off to Penskie, Chrysler was suppose to have the Bluetec motor in a handful of cars, trucks, and suvs. Obviously nothing ever developed with diesels in the Chrysler fleet. Kind of like the turbine cars of the 60's. Sorry to go off topic.

Erik