Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

Tornado TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Location
Chilliwack, British Columbia
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI Highline 6MT
There is one guy on this forum who moved to California from Ontario (I think) and imported his car and now neither VW Canada or VW America seem to want to help him. :confused::mad:
 

tobianogreg

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Location
Kamloops BC Canada
TDI
2013 Jetta returned
Apparently the change in government may have thrown a monkey wrench in the Can mix (hopefully good for us consumers).

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/02/18/news/harper-government-misled-canadians-about-volkswagen-investigation
-------------
Twitter feed:

@VWcanada according to emission for.ca it sounds like buyback option not available to Canada is this true?

Volkswagen CA TDI (@VWCanadaTDI)
2016-07-04, 9:01 AM
@adalle_joe Repairs require approval by the U.S. EPA. Once approved, they’d be offered to VW customers in Canada.
 
Last edited:

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
Apparently the change in government may have thrown a monkey wrench in the Can mix (hopefully good for us consumers).

http://www.nationalobserver.com/201...sled-canadians-about-volkswagen-investigation
Sounds like the departments involved are suffering from the typical over-worked, under-paid syndrome. Its not totally clear in this article, but I also get the feeling that there just isn't the appetite in the Canadian government to pursue this to the same extent. I really hope I'm wrong on this though!
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
Article from January discussing Volkswagen specifically in Ontario...makes for interesting reading.

https://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-E...ontent.do?noticeId=MTI2NjY0&statusId=MTkxMTk5

During the Order review period, Volkswagen Group Canada Inc. continued to work with the ministry and provided information which satisfied a number of the ministry’s requirements detailed within the November 17, 2015 Order. Concurrently Volkswagen AG and Volkswagen Group of America have continued to work with United States regulators to develop a plan to resolve this matter. Approval of a plan in the United States, including the fixes to be made to the vehicles, is an important step for resolving this matter in North America. The US Environmental Protection Agency plays a lead role in the certification of vehicles that meet the North American emissions standards and their expertise in this area is being relied upon by North American jurisdictions.


In issuing this Director’s Order, the ministry is responding to Volkswagen Group of Canada Inc.’s request for review of the Provincial Officer’s Order. As Volkswagen Group Canada Inc. has met a number of the original Order requirements, the relevant sections of the original Order have been revoked. Volkswagen Group of Canada Inc. has consented to the Director’s Order which requires, that within two months of a plan being approved and made public by the US Environmental Protection Agency, that Volkswagen Group Canada Inc. submit a draft plan addressing how it intends to implement the technical fixes and solutions in Ontario. The plan will be finalized for implementation in Ontario following review.

(emphasized points in bold)
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
All of the wording thus far has stated "technical fixes and solutions" not buybacks. I also understand that the buyback option in the USA was very much against VW's wishes. It would not surprise me one bit if VW pursues the "technical fix" line in Canada and does not go the "buyback" route, given that Transport Canada and the legal system don't have anywhere near the teeth that US EPA and the legal system there have.

Our main hope is that the EPA and CARB don't approve any of the "technical fixes" ...
 

tobianogreg

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Location
Kamloops BC Canada
TDI
2013 Jetta returned
The timelines for the technical fix proposals are on p.33 of appendix B of the decree. Depending on gen, from Oct 2016 to Oct 2017. I would imagine epa/carb will take considerable time in response.
 

JohnNS

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
All of the wording thus far has stated "technical fixes and solutions" not buybacks. I also understand that the buyback option in the USA was very much against VW's wishes. It would not surprise me one bit if VW pursues the "technical fix" line in Canada and does not go the "buyback" route, given that Transport Canada and the legal system don't have anywhere near the teeth that US EPA and the legal system there have.

Our main hope is that the EPA and CARB don't approve any of the "technical fixes" ...
I think it's fines (6 mil per incident, could each car, or model, or year be an incident?, all profits from the sales, and jail time).. Not the same as US and EPA, but it has some teeth. Also not sure what we can do about the fraud aspect.

I'm going with "and solutions" having a buyback option. At the rate it's going I can't imagine them being allowed to get away with another 6 months (min) of stalling - I don't think that'd appease the class action either.
 

dwfdiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Location
Muskoka Ontario Summer Lecanto FL winter
TDI
2006 Golf & 2012 Golf wagon, 1998 GMC 6.5 with 310,000km
Ontario will definitely want them off the road and will refuse license if they cannot meet the manufacturers specifications for pollutants.
The buyback also is reduced when/if we take it as we loose the tax credit for trade in which adds up on a $20k car.
I never planned on selling tho. The wife gets the new one and I take the 4-5 year old to work until it gives up the ghost, except the 2006 Golf just hangs in there so no reason for a new one yet.
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
All of the wording thus far has stated "technical fixes and solutions" not buybacks. I also understand that the buyback option in the USA was very much against VW's wishes. It would not surprise me one bit if VW pursues the "technical fix" line in Canada and does not go the "buyback" route, given that Transport Canada and the legal system don't have anywhere near the teeth that US EPA and the legal system there have.

Our main hope is that the EPA and CARB don't approve any of the "technical fixes" ...
My instinct tells me that you're probably right on this: VW will try to pursue the "fix" idea up here instead of buybacks. Their language in regards to Canadian solutions has definitely changed sinced April: perhaps they didn't believe that they would end up spending as much as they actually did in the U.S. and now they want to minimize their costs in Canada. Could also be that they are negotiating penalities right now (which is the part of the settlement that would not mirror what's been done in the current buyback, due to the difference in possible penalties between the two countries), which is what's causing them to say "we hope to provide something similar to the U.S. settlement" to Canadians.

What really gets me is why they are posting links to U.S. settlement details on VW Canada's Twitter and Facebook if they had no intention of offering something up here: maybe its just hopeful thinking on my part, but then again maybe its just a bad attempt at keeping Canadian customers hopeful.
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
I think it's fines (6 mil per incident, could each car, or model, or year be an incident?, all profits from the sales, and jail time).. Not the same as US and EPA, but it has some teeth. Also not sure what we can do about the fraud aspect.

I'm going with "and solutions" having a buyback option. At the rate it's going I can't imagine them being allowed to get away with another 6 months (min) of stalling - I don't think that'd appease the class action either.
I really, REALLY hope that the $6 mill per incident is per vehicle: that would have some teeth (100,000 x 6,000,000 = buyback!).

There just isn't the same legal clout available here: we don't have concurrent cases by three separate organizations such as DOJ, FTC, and EPA. Could be worse: we could be in Europe, where class actions aren't even available to the majority of vehicle owners. All they've been told is that "Sorry, you don't get any money, but we will provide you with a new rubber hose for your car...".
 

b1jackson

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Location
Prince Edward Island, Canada
TDI
2012 Golf - Gone in BUYBACK. Replaced with 2015 Golf
Somewhere in a locked boardroom at Tim Horton's head office in Ontario, a VW executive is hammering out a deal to pay us out in Timbits......
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
Somewhere in a locked boardroom at Tim Horton's head office in Ontario, a VW executive is hammering out a deal to pay us out in Timbits......
Oh! Yes, I like this :). Thank goodness for VW that Tim Hortons seems to have backed away from getting rid of Timbits.
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
From May 4, 2016: Competition Bureau has an investigation ongoing, looking at both VW and Audi. Maybe this will come to something?

http://business.financialpost.com/legal-post/canadian-competition-regulator-investigates-volkswagen

Just looking at the Competition Act, there are definitely grounds for a complaint about VW violating the Competition Act here (http://www.laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-34/page-17.html#h-24):

PART VII.1Deceptive Marketing Practices

Reviewable Matters

Marginal note:Misrepresentations to public


  • 74.01 (1) A person engages in reviewable conduct who, for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, the supply or use of a product or for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, any business interest, by any means whatever,
    • (a) makes a representation to the public that is false or misleading in a material respect;
    • (b) makes a representation to the public in the form of a statement, warranty or guarantee of the performance, efficacy or length of life of a product that is not based on an adequate and proper test thereof, the proof of which lies on the person making the representation; or
    • (c) makes a representation to the public in a form that purports to be
      • (i) a warranty or guarantee of a product, or
      • (ii) a promise to replace, maintain or repair an article or any part thereof or to repeat or continue a service until it has achieved a specified result,
      if the form of purported warranty or guarantee or promise is materially misleading or if there is no reasonable prospect that it will be carried out.
...(bolding below is mine)


  • 74.1 (1) Where, on application by the Commissioner, a court determines that a person is engaging in or has engaged in reviewable conduct under this Part, the court may order the person
    • (a) not to engage in the conduct or substantially similar reviewable conduct;
    • (b) to publish or otherwise disseminate a notice, in such manner and at such times as the court may specify, to bring to the attention of the class of persons likely to have been reached or affected by the conduct, the name under which the person carries on business and the determination made under this section, including
      • (i) a description of the reviewable conduct,
      • (ii) the time period and geographical area to which the conduct relates, and
      • (iii) a description of the manner in which any representation or advertisement was disseminated, including, where applicable, the name of the publication or other medium employed;
    • (c) to pay an administrative monetary penalty, in any manner that the court specifies, in an amount not exceeding
      • (i) in the case of an individual, $750,000 and, for each subsequent order, $1,000,000, or
      • (ii) in the case of a corporation, $10,000,000 and, for each subsequent order, $15,000,000; and
    • (d) in the case of conduct that is reviewable under paragraph 74.01(1)(a), to pay an amount, not exceeding the total of the amounts paid to the person for the products in respect of which the conduct was engaged in, to be distributed among the persons to whom the products were sold — except wholesalers, retailers or other distributors, to the extent that they have resold or distributed the products — in any manner that the court considers appropriate.
 
Last edited:

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
Complaint Submission Process

Just working through submitting a complaint to the Competition Bureau of Canada regarding this: not sure that it will amount to anything, but its worth a shot.

Ok, so the File a Complaint page is located at http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-eng/GHÉT-7TDNA5. Pretty straight-forward as far as information entered to get the claim going: only part that is tricky is assigning a dollar amount of loss to the incident.

Holding off on actually submitting a claim until July 29th, just in case we are pleasantly surprised. If not, maybe a bunch of us can get together and submit claims: maybe they get ignored, maybe they don't, but its better than doing nothing.
 
Last edited:

tobianogreg

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Location
Kamloops BC Canada
TDI
2013 Jetta returned
I don't see VW's fix plan for Canada working at all.

We may not know about any fix until May 2018. How long will implementation take? Another couple of years? So Canadian owners could effectively be held hostage for up to 5 years or take the hit on resale values, if they can be sold at all.

What would such a plan do to TDI resale values? Why would anyone buy one under these circumstances?

Get real VW.
 

buyingconstant7

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI Highline 6spd
I don't see VW's fix plan for Canada working at all.

We may not know about any fix until May 2018. How long will implementation take? Another couple of years? So Canadian owners could effectively be held hostage for up to 5 years or take the hit on resale values, if they can be sold at all.

What would such a plan do to TDI resale values? Why would anyone buy one under these circumstances?

Get real VW.
Where are you getting 2018 from? VW Canada specifically stated the proceedings will be finalized on, or before July 28th, 2016, then we will have a plan. Rumours have it that buy backs will commence in the fall.
 

tobianogreg

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Location
Kamloops BC Canada
TDI
2013 Jetta returned
No, there'll be an update on Canadian court proceedings on July 29th. All the rhetoric from VW Canada so far since the US agreement has focussed on a fix for all gens, no mention of buy backs.
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
No, there'll be an update on Canadian court proceedings on July 29th. All the rhetoric from VW Canada so far since the US agreement has focussed on a fix for all gens, no mention of buy backs.
Exactly: progress update on or before July 29th. (I'm guessing it won't be early). Quote below is from vwemissionsinfo.ca. Anyone else find its a coincidence that this is very close to the preliminary approval date in the U.S.?
In Canada, parties to proposed class proceedings are in discussions about potential settlements and remedies for affected TDI vehicles nationally. The parties are aiming to provide a settlement progress update to Canadian courts on or before July 29, 2016. Under the Canadian legal system, once the parties to a class action proceeding reach a settlement, affected customers would be informed and the Court would then schedule a hearing to approve the settlement.
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
I don't see VW's fix plan for Canada working at all.

We may not know about any fix until May 2018. How long will implementation take? Another couple of years? So Canadian owners could effectively be held hostage for up to 5 years or take the hit on resale values, if they can be sold at all.

What would such a plan do to TDI resale values? Why would anyone buy one under these circumstances?

Get real VW.
Maybe they'll hand out coupons for a Malone tune/Buzzken exhaust upgrade to every person who comes in for the "fix"? :)
 

Bahamut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Cobourg, ON, Canada
TDI
2014 Passat Comfortline TDI, DSG
I don't think that is a good idea after reading the FAQs below.
https://www.strosbergco.com/class-actions/vw/faq.56eab6b305eac.htm
Second this! They got some bad press for sending out emails asking for retainer fees (or some sort of fee): another group was chosen to actually represent the main class action. I think Merchant Law might actually still be handling a couple of lawsuits though.

Also, the situation in Canada could be worse (hopefully it doesn't become worse), as VW in Germany isn't even going to see any fines from this whole thing.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-fines-in-germany-as-payout-pressure-mounts
 
Last edited:

Paulinski

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Location
Brantford, Ontaro
TDI
09 Jetta Wagon Highline
Ontario will definitely want them off the road and will refuse license if they cannot meet the manufacturers specifications for pollutants.
The buyback also is reduced when/if we take it as we loose the tax credit for trade in which adds up on a $20k car.
I never planned on selling tho. The wife gets the new one and I take the 4-5 year old to work until it gives up the ghost, except the 2006 Golf just hangs in there so no reason for a new one yet.
State of California agreed on 85% of TDi either bought back or "fixed"

If Cali agrees to 15% non fixed rate then Ontario will probably do the same.

For every percentage point VW goes under the 85% Cali gets 16 million and Fed get 84.
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2014 GSW Trendline 6MT, 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW Highline 6MT (buy back)
I don't think that is a good idea after reading the FAQs below.
https://www.strosbergco.com/class-actions/vw/faq.56eab6b305eac.htm
Second this! They got some bad press for sending out emails asking for retainer fees (or some sort of fee): another group was chosen to actually represent the main class action. I think Merchant Law might actually still be handling a couple of lawsuits though.
Also, the situation in Canada could be worse (hopefully it doesn't become worse), as VW in Germany isn't even going to see any fines from this whole thing.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-fines-in-germany-as-payout-pressure-mounts
Hmmm wish I would have seen that before I signed up. Though reading it my copy was signed & dated Jan 29, 2016 so it looks like I am not legally bound to have them represent me. Not sure how I even found them in the first place. I did receive a letter from them a few weeks ago but lost interest after the 1st 3 or 4 lines of legal speak.
 
Top