Crank sensor location

[Denno56]

Ive a 92 jetta echo diesel 1.6 i just picked up. Hadnt run in 7 years. Ran when parked. I git it to run but shuts off? Put a new fuel filter on it. Primed it and injector pump. Fired but wont stay running? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Denno56

 

[Vince Waldon]

No crank sensor, it's a 100% mechanical injection system and the injection pump does all of the work.

How long does it run for, and does it start and run consistantly? Fuel filter was pre-filled with fuel?

 

[Denno56]

No crank sensor, it's a 100% mechanical injection system and the injection pump does all of the work.

How long does it run for, and does it start and run consistantly? Fuel filter was pre-filled with fuel?

I had it run for a few mins after i primed the injector pump. Then it quit? Then it would run for less than 5 seconds and quit?

 

[Denno56]

I put a new fuel filter. I drained the under side water separator. No water and fuels clean.

 

[Vince Waldon]

I'd try:

-pre-filling the fuel filter completely
- if possible, applying vacuum at the return line, to draw fuel thru the entire pump
- loosening the hi-pressure fitting at the top of each injector 2 turns
- (fire extinguisher at the ready) crank the engine until fuel dribbles out the top of all 4 injectors
- tighten the fittings and fire 'er up

If you don't get fuel dribbling out the loosened fittings you likely have a fuel obstruction or IP problem downstream.

 

[Denno56]

I'd try:

-pre-filling the fuel filter completely
- if possible, applying vacuum at the return line, to draw fuel thru the entire pump
- loosening the hi-pressure fitting at the top of each injector 2 turns
- (fire extinguisher at the ready) crank the engine until fuel dribbles out the top of all 4 injectors
- tighten the fittings and fire 'er up

If you don't get fuel dribbling out the loosened fittings you likely have a fuel obstruction or IP problem downstream.

 

[Denno56]

I'd try:

-pre-filling the fuel filter completely
- if possible, applying vacuum at the return line, to draw fuel thru the entire pump
- loosening the hi-pressure fitting at the top of each injector 2 turns
- (fire extinguisher at the ready) crank the engine until fuel dribbles out the top of all 4 injectors
- tighten the fittings and fire 'er up

If you don't get fuel dribbling out the loosened fittings you likely have a fuel obstruction or IP problem downstream.

 

[Denno56]

I bled each line @ the injectors & got good fuel pressure on each. I cleaned the wire to the side of the injector pump. My guess is thats the solenoid wire?
i filled my new fuel filter. I primed the pump thru that hex fitting on top. I took the banjo fitting off of the left side of the pump (fuel feed line) to ensure it was full of fuel. It was. I pulled the tank level sensor out of the tank in the trunk to see if it was damaged. It was not.
I did drain that water seperator under the car enough to see there wasnt any water in the fuel. Fuel looked clean. The fuel solenoid shut off is located where? Also does it have a separate fuse? Thank you in advance for any advise. Its much appreciated.
Dennis in Barre Mass. USA

 

[Vince Waldon]

Yup, the fuel shutoff solenoid is the one wire attached to the side of the pump, if it's getting 12V with the key on and you can hear it click a bit as power is turned on and off it's proably OK, and if you are getting good dribbles out of the top of each injector you already know it's ok.

Backing up a bit, engines need fuel and air at the correct time; sounds like you proabably have fuel, and unless the timing belt broke or the crank pulley loosened while the car was sitting timing should be where it was the last time the engine run.

But air... hmmm. *Super* common for mice or other furry beasts to build a nest somewhere in the air intake of a car that's sitting for a long time. Might be worth pulling the air filter cover and then having a careful look for any obstructions along the intake pathway.

 

[Denno56]

Mice did make nests in the air box. I cleaned it all out of the box and tubes. I pulled the fuel shut off solenoid out and tested it by jump wires. It worked fine. I need to test to make sure the relay & fuse to it is ok while installed. Gotta wait for my son to come bye as the extra set of hands. Does anyone eliminate that under neath water separator unit? There is a water drain on the fuel filter. Thanks

 

[Vince Waldon]

Yes, you can safely eliminate the water separater... most have by now, since it cracks over time, is discontinued, and comes from an era of poor diesel fuel that is not a problem anymore.

Again: if you're getting fuel out of the injector tubing it's hard to imagine how there could be a problem with relays/wiring/fuses to the fuel solenoid or the solenoid itself. If you really want to confirm, temporarily remove the plunger from the solenoid and re-install, thus eliminating it from the fuel circuit.

Any white or blue smoke coming out the tailpipe while you crank the engine?

 

[Denno56]

Yes, you can safely eliminate the water separater... most have by now, since it cracks over time, is discontinued, and comes from an era of poor diesel fuel that is not a problem anymore.

Again: if you're getting fuel out of the injector tubing it's hard to imagine how there could be a problem with relays/wiring/fuses to the fuel solenoid or the solenoid itself. If you really want to confirm, temporarily remove the plunger from the solenoid and re-install, thus eliminating it from the fuel circuit.

Any white or blue smoke coming out the tailpipe while you crank the engine?

Yes that water separators cracked so i will rem

Yes, you can safely eliminate the water separater... most have by now, since it cracks over time, is discontinued, and comes from an era of poor diesel fuel that is not a problem anymore.

Again: if you're getting fuel out of the injector tubing it's hard to imagine how there could be a problem with relays/wiring/fuses to the fuel solenoid or the solenoid itself. If you really want to confirm, temporarily remove the plunger from the solenoid and re-install, thus eliminating it from the fuel circuit.

Any white or blue smoke coming out the tailpipe while you crank the engine?

yes smoke looks white. I am going to get a vacuum pump and put it in series with the return line to the tank once i eliminate the water separator to pull fuel thru the system back to the tank. Wish i could post pics on here id show you.

 

[Vince Waldon]

You can host pictures on a system like Flickr or Imgur, or post them using the board's media server:

How to upload photos in Xenforo and use them in your posts

This is a temporary place holder for a proper FAQ on how to upload photos to the new system: To upload images to the image server: Go to the "Media" section. The link is found in the top bar. click on "Add Media" found near the top right corner. You will get a popup on where you want to...

forums.tdiclub.com

White smoke suggests you're getting fuel, so if you're pretty sure you're getting air and are also pretty sure the timing is where it was the last time it running another thing to check is the glow plugs. The older IDI engine design pretty much needs 'em for any cold start, even on a cool summer morning.

A voltmeter or test light on the copper bar that runs between the glowplugs is a quick way to see if they are getting power... if they are the next step is to remove the copper buss bar and test the resistance of each glow plug.

 

[Denno56]

Well, I removed the under carriage water separator. Spliced the fuel line together again. I have a hand operated vacuum pump which I hooked up to the return line from the injectors. Pulled fuel all the way thru it reconnected it. It ran long enough to empty out the fuel in the injector pump then it stalled. It would idel but wouldn't excelorate only idle? I ordered a 12V fuel transfer pump. Im going to syphon all the old fuel out of it (about a half tank = 7 gallons) I’ll put new fuel in it for now (5 gallons) I tested the fuel shut off solenoid and there’s 12V going to it. I am gonna pull the solenoid plunger and spring out and temp run with out it in it. Thanks for the help. Dennis

 

[Vince Waldon]

Baby steps!

It would idel but wouldn't excelorate only idle?

This symptom raises the possibility that the injection pump is gummed up internally... perhaps as a result of sitting for 7 years with old diesel in it.

The throttle linkage controls an internal spring-actuated governor, which can seize in place over time... the "place" it seizes generally being idle.

Gunk can also seize the internal vane pump, making it hard/impossible for the pump to prime properly.

Some people have reported some luck filling the pump with ATF or lacquer thinner and letting it soak for several days, but often if this is the issue the pump will need to be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned.

Not a horrible job but it takes some time and attention, and since the pump has to come out of the car one needs the tools (dial indicator, adapter, locking jigs) to set the timing when the pump is reinstalled. If the car has been sitting for 7 years it should probably get a new timing belt anyways.

www.vwdiesel.net is the forum most IDI engine people hang out these days, and there are some threads there on pump disassembly, exploded diagrams, etc.

 

[Denno56]

So letting that thinner sit in the pump. After a few days do you syphon it out before priming it?
Thank you.
I will check out that forum.
Dennis
ps there was a little bit of sludge in the bottom of that water separator but not enough for concern.

 

[Vince Waldon]

As lacquer thinner is very volatile I would suggest flushing it out, which you could do that by priming the pump via the return until all the thinner is out and you just get fresh diesel.

The challenge is that the internal springs for the internal linkages are fairly weak, by design, and so even if the gunk is somewhat flushed away disassembly may be required to actually break things loose.

Doesn't hurt to try soaking, of course.

 

[Denno56]

Good idea Thanks

 

[jmodge]

I've had good luck using LiquiMoli diesel purge as a solution to free up pumps, it won't hurt anything either

 

[CasaEd]

Recently had the same issue on an Opel Corsa 1.7td and we managed to free it up by using a additive normally used in fuel injected petrol cars, put the fuel feed and return lines directly into the tin and started it up, the result was an unstuck fuel injection pump. Worth a go before pulling the pump.

 

[oilhammer]

I had a diesel Rabbit once that the little plunger inside the pump was stuck solid after sitting for several years. I had the pump rebuilt, it was fine after that.

 

[Denno56]

Im wondering if i can dilute some diesel kleen and remove what fuels in the pump and add this and leave it sit for a day?

 

[Vince Waldon]

Personally I'd get the strongest solvent I could get my hands on for a "last resort" attempt like this.. diesel kleen probably has some solvent in it but is more of an additive.

Just my opinion, of course, and who knows, maybe diesel kleen is 99% lacquer thinner.

 

[Denno56]

If what id done today doesn't work. Then I’ll go that route. I did use a spare jug and put fuel in it. Then ran the pump feed & return into it and the car ran great.
So im hoping this will do the trick. Thank you for the advice

 

[Denno56]

Todays update 28-june-22
I disconnected the fuel pump feed line and return line and fled a jug straight kerosene. I used my hand op vacuum pump to pull the fuel thru the system. Turned the key on to open the fuel shut off solenoid. I then noticed one of the injector return tubes is leaking alittle & weeping down the injector.

(A source of air into the fuel system im sure)

I'm gonna let it runoff of the bottle of kerosene in hopes of cleaning out the injector pump???

whats a good online parts place to get a new set of fuel return lines for the injectors? I tried looking it up on a few sights with no luck.

thank you all for your help.
Dennis

 

[Vince Waldon]

Many people use silastic tubing (chainsaw/lawnmotor shop) as a replacement for the cloth-coated rubber return lines that degrade over time.

Kerosene is really close to diesel from a fuel weight perspective so I'm not sure it will be much more of a solvent than straight diesel.

Got any paint thinner in the house?

 

[Denno56]

I've had good luck using LiquiMoli diesel purge as a solution to free up pumps, it won't hurt anything either

I ordered some of that Liquimoli and will try it. Thanks

 

[Denno56]

Hi,
Im wondering if theres an after market retro fit lift pump that doubles as a fuel gage sending unit for my 9Jetta? I cant even find a replacement sending unit

The steel tube is pitted & most likely has a pin hole in it?

Im hoping to get the car up on a lift at a friends garage soon so i can clearly check everything.

I ordered new glow plugs, injectors & a timing belt plus tensioner pulley.

any thoughts please?

Thanks
Dennis

 

[jmodge]

I ordered some of that Liquimoli and will try it. Thanks

I’ve set them in a vice and completely filled them and let them set. Rotate them a little and let them set. You can feel them loosen. There is considerable resistance as the camplate works against the springs, that’s normal. Can’t hurt to try it, but you’re pump may have the same issues inside that the pick up tube does

 

[Denno56]

Finally got the fuel i jector pump to pull fuel from the tank Thanks for all the imput Much appreciated. Dennis

ps. I am wondering if anyone can post a wire schematic showing the license plate lights please?
I am curious to see where it cones from. I may have disconnected them when i removed the water separator under the car? I cut the wires to the seperator. I pulled them up thru the fuel tank access panel and disconnected it at a wire connector there.

I got 2 new light assemblys and bulbs & Installed them. Still wont come on? Tail lights markers blinkers head lights dash lights all work but not the lic plate lights?
I need to get a vehicle inspection sticker by this wed.
I did send away for s Bentley manual. But am hoping some one may have an idea as to whats going on with this? Thanks again.