Completely dead in hot weather

[schultp]

Drove my car to work in the AM. It sat in the hot sun (temp 100F) over the day. Went out to go home and all the appropriate dash lights activated but when I turned the ignition key...nothing. No cranking, no starter click, nothing. All the electricals seem to work well so I don't feel there is a battery problem. Since I don't even hear a click from the starter I am leaning toward investigating the starter and various connections. But, the car is 12 miles from my home and in a parking lot. I'd like other evaluation opinions before I trek back over during the weekend and try to get this running again.

 

[40X40]

Before you take anything apart:

Try to use jumper cables to start the car, letting the donor car run for several minutes with the cables hooked up.
It is likely that your battery has failed even though the 'electrics' seem to work.

Under no circumstances use any kind of starting fluid with a TDI.

Once started, take the car to an auto parts store and have them test the charging circuit/battery for free.

Let us know what happens.

Bill

 

[Alchemist]

Get a test lead about 4' long with alligator clips. Disconnect the thin wire from the solenoid and connect one end of the test lead in its place. With car in neutral, parking brake on and key on touch the other end of the test lead to battery +. The starter will run and the engine should start. This will let you drive home to figure out the problem.

Paul

 

[schultp]

Yep, I appreciate the advice.

I was already going to bring the jumper cables and give this a go. I can also bring my carbon load tester and check the battery in the parking lot. What I am looking for is other diagnostic ideas to determine what tools and equipment to bring along in the truck. I work this weekend so my fix it time is limited. What perplexes me is that when I have had a low power battery in the past it at least will click the starter solenoid at least once. Today, I get absolutely nothing. Power does seem good using the crude test of testing powered items like windows, lights, horn, etc. I know these aren't heavy loads but nothing seemed "weak".

The weather was blazing here today. Inside the car was 145F in the sun! I am sure under the hood was similar. I am curious if high temps can play tricks with some of the circuits...including the starter in these older vehicles.

 

[schultp]

Get a test lead about 4' long with alligator clips. Disconnect the thin wire from the solenoid and connect one end of the test lead in its place. With car in neutral, parking brake on and key on touch the other end of the test lead to battery +. The starter will run and the engine should start. This will let you drive home to figure out the problem.

Paul

Thanks,

that is the type of idea I need. I don't want to be on a black asphalt lot in the 100F heat for too long.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

When that happened a few years ago(in winter) on my A3,it was the starter.But, I've had more batteries fail(and get stranded in town)in hot weather......

 

[john.jackson9213]

Get a tow bar, drag it
12 miles home to your garage. Work on it at home.

Good luck.

 

[TonyJetta]

It sounds like a classic weak cell in the battery. Common failure mode for batteries in AZ. We rarely get more that 2.5 years out of a battery due to the heat.

Do the headlights come on? Keep in mind the key will have to be in the 'on' position.

If you can't jump it, but it will crank over slowly, I'll bet the battery is toast.

Tony

 

[schultp]

It sounds like a classic weak cell in the battery. Common failure mode for batteries in AZ. We rarely get more that 2.5 years out of a battery due to the heat.

Do the headlights come on? Keep in mind the key will have to be in the 'on' position.

If you can't jump it, but it will crank over slowly, I'll bet the battery is toast.

Tony

Lights are bright. Battery is about 2+ years old, Duralast 49-DL. It doesn't crank at all, not any click or sound from the starter at all. I just got home from work and it is 100F and blazing hot out. I may go later tonight but the weather will be better tomorrow so I'll likely tackle this then.

 

[TonyJetta]

You just reminded me of a no-crank issue I had one morning about a year ago.

The short version: Just enough corrosion got into the positive clamp that it would not pass enough current to crank the engine.

Before you jump it, pull the pos and neg cable to clean the terminals. If you don't have the round battery brush, I would spend the $5 or so and buy one.

Tony

 

[twob4s]

I am going to place my money on the ignition switch. I had a similar problem with mine anyway.

 

[ninedee_golf_tdi]

Why waste money guessing ? Put a test light on the starter solenoid terminal, turn ignition switch to "start" and see if the light lights.

 

[White Crow]

My starter failed the same way in a HD parking lot after a bit of banging on it I managed to get it to start and back home. It did how ever give me a warning by just clicking some times before it cranked.

 

[schultp]

I used Alchemist's idea to get the car running...started right up. Got it home and checked for voltage at the wire leading to the solenoid with my son holding the key in the START position, zero volts. Looks like it is either the ignition switch (probable) or the wiring between the switch and the solenoid (hope not since it would be more of a headache to track and repair). I am leaning toward the ignition switch at this point.

I know there have been plenty of ignition switch threads on the forum but I never paid great detail to them...time to use the search function! Will any brand from a trusted vendor do or is this something where there is a significant difference in quality among manufacturers?

 

[Ski in NC]

Don't forget clutch switch might be bad.

 

[TonyJetta]

Meyle has been producing questionable parts lately.

Tony

 

[schultp]

Don't forget clutch switch might be bad.

That is something I thought of and then it fell off my idea list...probably because I couldn't find it in my Bentley manual. Where is it located (likely near the pedal) and how do I check it?

 

[Alchemist]

I just finished tracing the start circuit in my 98 Jetta donor for a conversion, so here is the latest knowledge on the subject.

1. Ignition switch. Red/Black wire to the fuse panel, connector H1, Pin 1
2. Fuse panel connector F Pin1, red wire to clutch switch Green connector
3. Clutch switch Green connector Red/White wire to #53 Relay term 85 on top of fuse panel
4. Relay term 30 Battery+, term 86 ground, term 87 Red wire to 2 pin black connector.
5. Red wire from 2 pin black connector to Alarm module pin 5
6. Red/Black wire from Alarm module pin 6 to 2 pin black connector.
7. Red/Black wire from 2 pin black connector to starter solenoid.

So it looks as if the ignition switch supplies power to the relay coil through the clutch switch. The relay supplies switched power to the alarm module from a battery feed point, not directly from the ignition switch. The alarm module interrupts the circuit if it is in alarm state, disabling the starter. Finally, if all of the above is working the stater gets a chance to operate.

Hope this is enough to get you going.

Paul

 

[schultp]

Thanks Paul.

I have been reviewing my Bentley and realize that while I was at first thinking I had a bad ignition switch it also could be a bad clutch interlock switch or a fault with the alarm module.

I have to figure out how to perform a diagnostic to determine which component could be the culprit. Any advice? I suppose I need to also consider the relay #53 that you reference. If this is bad would it result in the symptoms I am experiencing?

 

[rdkern]

Do you have VCDS? I believe you can test the switch there - look at the "fixing cruise control" threads, since that's one area that can also be affected.

 

[schultp]

I have VCDS. I'll be busy for the next few days with work but will definitely see what VCDS tells me.

A relay 53 appears to be a general multipurpose relay. I may just pick one up and see if a swap makes a difference.

 

[Alchemist]

If you can find the 2 pin black connector in the rat's nest, unplug it and put a fuse in the female side or otherwise jumper the two pins together. This will bypass the alarm module, and give you a point to use a test light or voltmeter. You could also disconnect the green plug from the clutch switch and jumper the pins together to bypass the switch. Make sure you have the car in neutral when trying this, it could start in gear and runaway! The relay is not so easy to bypass because it is fed from the battery, not the ignition switch. If you jumper the contacts, it will cause the starter to run continuously, but that may prove the rest of the circuit if you do it very briefly. The contacts are terminals 30 and 87, which will be marked on the relay. With the relay out, you could measure the voltage across the coil on terminals 85 and 86. You should get 12V when trying to start. No fancy test equipment is needed for any of this testing, any old meter or 12V lamp will do. If the relay is bad it will stop the circuit from working. Its job is to watch for a start signal from the ignition switch, and when it sees it, supply power to the starter solenoid via the alarm.

 

[etag1949]

I am going to place my money on the ignition switch. I had a similar problem with mine anyway.

Ditto - Just had it happen yesterday. Black '97 945am-215pm w/sun beating on the windshield the whole time. Someone said "apply a little extra force" turning the key, I did and it started right up. Guy said the wiring's fine, the switch is just wearing out after 15 years. Good luck.

 

[schultp]

Ditto - Just had it happen yesterday. Black '97 945am-215pm w/sun beating on the windshield the whole time. Someone said "apply a little extra force" turning the key, I did and it started right up. Guy said the wiring's fine, the switch is just wearing out after 15 years. Good luck.

I have tried all variations of jiggling, forcing, pushing the key while turning it to START with no luck. I have a replacement switch on the way. I'll probably use the method from vortex since it doesn't require dismantling of the airbag. Any differing opinion on how to get the switch replacement done?

 

[TDIinWI]

I've been experiencing this issue through the summer. My 98 Jetta TDI starts easy in cold or cool weather. It does not start if it's 80 degrees or hotter. Headlights, dash lights, radio all work. The starter does not turn the engine over at all. When I turn the key to the start position...nothing happens. I'd like to have an idea what's going on before I take it to the mechanic. Thanks.

 

[TonyJetta]

The starter does not turn the engine over at all. When I turn the key to the start position...nothing happens.

That alone, indicates to me that the ignition switch needs to be replaced.

Tony

 

[schultp]

Perfect timing to bring back my old thread. My Jetta has been sitting idle for 3 months in the drive. Too busy renovating our walk-out basement for my son's backyard wedding. This event happened last weekend so I now have a chance to get my Jetta up and running. I've had my replacement switch sitting in a box for almost 3 months. I'll keep folks posted this weekend on if this fixes my issue.

 

[schultp]

Replaced the ignition switch today and the Jetta fired right up after sitting idle for 3 months (I did have to recharge the battery).

Unfortunately, now I have a radiator leak. I had seen some wet spots on the drive during the time the car was idle but just assumed it was rain water dripping down off the car.

I have a new radiator on order from IDParts along with some G12 coolant.

....and yes, I thorougly checked all hoses. It is clearly leaking from the aftermarket radiator I installed about 2-3 years ago! I can't remember where I got it from back then but think it was from Rock Auto. Serves me right for taking the cheap route!

Oh well, hopefully I'll get the new radiator installed before next Saturday since I start a daily 75 mile commute for 7 days and don't want to take my pick up truck and its 14 mpg fuel consumption!

 

[schultp]

Radiator replaced. Will drive Jetta to work for first time in 3 months. It will be quite a change from driving a 4 door, V-8 pick-up truck....and a much needed reprieve from the frequent visits to the gas pump!