Clutch Choice, lets hear what mods you have on these clutches

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I had good luck with an OE LUK clutch with PP520s, RC3+, breathing mods and a lift pump on my '99.5 Golf. I could make it slip in 5th but drove around that. Did lots of track days with the car and the clutch held fine shifting at 5500 and revs dropping to 3500, so I was well above the toque peak.

You may find an OE LUK, we had some for a while but haven't seen any in a year or so. But I don't think it's the best option. SBC Stage 2 daily will probably hold better.

 

[maxmoo]

I had good luck with an OE LUK clutch with PP520s, RC3+, breathing mods and a lift pump on my '99.5 Golf. I could make it slip in 5th but drove around that. Did lots of track days with the car and the clutch held fine shifting at 5500 and revs dropping to 3500, so I was well above the toque peak.

You may find an OE LUK, we had some for a while but haven't seen any in a year or so. But I don't think it's the best option. SBC Stage 2 daily will probably hold better.

Some seem to have the disk springs failing....

 

[maxmoo]

I believe he said 0.6mm.......
http://translate.google.es/translat...ejorar-resistencia-al-Par-de-nuestro-embrague

Has anyone put kevlar linings on a new LUK 17-050?

Why can't we get a durable DMF setup for our stage 3 tdi's????

Some one here must have experimented with upgrading the disk linings for higher torque holding.

 

[79TA7.6]

You may find an OE LUK, we had some for a while but haven't seen any in a year or so. But I don't think it's the best option. SBC Stage 2 daily will probably hold better.

Some seem to have the disk springs failing....

Maxmoo, You are the one who commented on this and marked it in bold. Please elaborate. Who all is having failures? Any thread links?

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Coming from a clutch rebuilding background, sourcing specific facings w/the correct ID/OD, drill pattern, thickness and a choice of desired specific materials is not as easy as one might imagine.

 

[maxmoo]

Coming from a clutch rebuilding background, sourcing specific facings w/the correct ID/OD, drill pattern, thickness and a choice of desired specific materials is not as easy as one might imagine.

True....I would shop it out to a clutch manufacturer/rebuilder.

 

[maxmoo]

Maxmoo, You are the one who commented on this and marked it in bold. Please elaborate. Who all is having failures? Any thread links?

Don't really want to point fingers....ask and you'll get replies.
Just want to add that many are also happy with that set up...time will tell.

 

[79TA7.6]

Don't really want to point fingers....ask and you'll get replies.
Just want to add that many are also happy with that set up...time will tell.

You brought it up so I am now asking. There is no finger pointing here. I want to see the threads as I am sure others would like to see them too. If I am going to drop over $500 on something I want to hear both sides of ANY story, the good and the bad. I did not know there were any issues with this setup. I want to hear about them before making my final decision.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Well, this has developed into a pretty significant hijack. Not sure what your goals are specifically maxmoo but... sounds like you want a significant clutch upgrade on the cheap. For those who develop significantly more power than stock, the proven and successful upgrade path has been around for quite a while. Upgrade to SMF and buy from one of the user tested sources as suggested by the OP. There are some buried and old posts here about buying a boneyard G60 flywheel and specific VR6 disc/cover combos that is very affordable. At Stage 3 they would probably hold up fine. Any more, however, might overrun their capabilities. Most here opt for more clutch than necessary to insure good function for current and future upgrades. The down side is these setups are not cheap. Count your blessings you don't own a MK6. Price jumps up significantly.

 

[79TA7.6]

Most here opt for more clutch than necessary to insure good function for current and future upgrades. The down side is these setups are not cheap. Count your blessings you don't own a MK6. Price jumps up significantly.

And that is why I posed my question. I want more clutch than I will ever use, but I do not want to over pay for something I won't use. Buying an expensive clutch once is still cheaper than buying a cheap clutch first, only to find out you need the expensive one.

As for maxmoos response, he might be running the thread off topic, but I do not think it is too far. He should start his own thread to get the answers he is looking for. If he had answers and wished to share them then I understand them being in this thread as another option for my clutch needs. I would still like to know where these threads are that people have had issues with the clutches I am asking about though. I would like to know when these failure happened and why. Maybe they are fixed, maybe it was installed wrong, not really sure until I see these posts.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

I think you're going to find both positive and negative posts regarding any clutch you may be considering. By the law of averages, some are going to be duds. One has to kind of weigh the whole picture for themselves. I recently found one rather devastating post concerning my clutch that gave pause. He had a point regarding the design but I've never had the problem he cited and I've been less-than-gentle with mine on numerous occasions. My first uprated clutch was a Spec, now fallen from grace. At the time, it was one of the only upgrade paths available. In both cases, my experience has/had actually been good. Research is good but all too often no black/white answers present themselves.

JMHO but considering the testimonials available at this point, I'd be leaning towards the SBC. Not that there haven't been problems reported but I'd venture a guess that many more have been sold than other brands and feedback is largely positive.

 

[maxmoo]

Well, this has developed into a pretty significant hijack. Not sure what your goals are specifically maxmoo but... sounds like you want a significant clutch upgrade on the cheap. For those who develop significantly more power than stock, the proven and successful upgrade path has been around for quite a while. Upgrade to SMF and buy from one of the user tested sources as suggested by the OP. There are some buried and old posts here about buying a boneyard G60 flywheel and specific VR6 disc/cover combos that is very affordable. At Stage 3 they would probably hold up fine. Any more, however, might overrun their capabilities. Most here opt for more clutch than necessary to insure good function for current and future upgrades. The down side is these setups are not cheap. Count your blessings you don't own a MK6. Price jumps up significantly.

Sorry really not my intention to "hijack" this thread at all. This thread is about modifying clutches....no?

All I'm looking for is info on anyone modifying a dual mass clutch so it holds more torque, never mentioned anything about doing it on the cheap.

Why the hostility?

 

[79TA7.6]

Sorry really not my intention to "hijack" this thread at all. This thread is about modifying clutches....no?

All I'm looking for is info on anyone modifying a dual mass clutch so it holds more torque, never mentioned anything about doing it on the cheap.

Why the hostility?

Please read the first post. It has nothing to do with modifying clutches, rather asking opinions on upgraded clutches and other power adders they are running with them. Someone else hijacked before you did. I see your confusion.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Not trying to be mean. Tweaking current setups by replacing facings, etc., is kind of a broad topic that could generate lots of responses. It is kind of different from the OP's fairly straightforward question.

 

[maxmoo]

Please read the first post. It has nothing to do with modifying clutches, rather asking opinions on upgraded clutches and other power adders they are running with them. Someone else hijacked before you did. I see your confusion.

OK you're right my appologies....I'll shut up.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The only incidences of spring issues with SBC I've seen were because of abuse or install errors. We sell a lot of these clutches and I can't recall a failure caused by a manufacturing defect. And we originally went to SBC on the strength of their reputation in the Cummins community.

 

[maxmoo]

"abuse"?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Yes, abuse.

 

[devonutopia]

Sachs SRE clutch kit from Darkside - Running 300 odd bhp, given plenty of abuse, trackdays, 1/4 miles - has it batted an eyelid? No! Best clutch I have used (and I've tried a couple of them, and broke them all....)

 

[Digital Corpus]

"abuse"?

Sachs SRE clutch kit from Darkside - Running 300 odd bhp, given plenty of abuse, trackdays, 1/4 miles - has it batted an eyelid? No! Best clutch I have used (and I've tried a couple of them, and broke them all....)

There's a decent description of what IBW meant by abuse.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

No it isn't. I mean sidestepping the pedal with the accelerator floored, excessive slipping on engagement, downshifting without rev matching, shocking the clutch with wheel hop when spinning wheels with worn suspension, things like that.

I probably did 20 track days comprised of 4-5 half hour sessions per day with the SBC in my wagon, and at last count about 60 dyno pulls. The clutch never whimpered, even with a DMF. Use and abuse are different things.

 

[Digital Corpus]

Sorry. Some mean heavy wear, others means mistreatment. Apparently you meant the latter.

 

[n1das]

I think I broke it.

I think I managed to break my SBC 3 SMF clutch in my 05 ATD PD JWagen. It's never been abused but it still broke.
IIRC, South Bend Stage 3 was recently renamed to Stage 2 Endurance. It is rated to hold 425 ft-lbs (or lb-ft)*

I've been able to put close to 300 ft-lbs through my setup and it has never slipped. I've put 100k miles on this setup. Pedal feel and engagement height is identical to stock. It just locks up and goes.....until it broke recently.

In January I was haulin' ar$e on the highway on my way home from work when it broke. While haulin' ar$e with evening commuter traffic around 80 MPH, I felt a slight drop in power and heard and felt a very loud BANG(!) about a second or two later. The engine redlined for a second or two after that because I still had my foot on the go-pedal. Then I found I had MAJOR clutch slippage and almost no torque to the wheels. I could still shift normally but torque to the wheels was gone. I was in the center lane on the highway (I-495 in Chelmsford MA) when it happened. I was able continue driving for a little over a mile to the nearest exit and safely got off the highway. I was able to keep moving on the street the exit dumped me out on until I had to stop at a traffic light at an intersection. No more go after that. A call was made to 911 due to the hazardous location and the cops came and pushed me out of the intersection and called a towtruck.

The car is down at mrchill's shop. I think I'm going to sell the car and walk away from it instead of fixing it. I'm done with it.

*Torque is in ft-lbs or lb-ft or Nm (metric). Torque is NOT in feet per pounds (ft/lbs) or pounds per foot (lb/ft). While feet per found (ft/lbs) and pounds per foot (lb/ft) are valid units, they are not the units of torque at all (totally wrong!) and each describe something physically different from torque.

 

[KERMA]

Some of the first cars with SBC are now going on 7 years or so with SBC installed.

7 years and counting

that's pretty good service life. and an awesome track record for any product
and there are literally thousands of them out there in service right now. So if there are a few "reports" trickling in keep that in mind. 7+ years and thousands of units in service still

Also remember: clutches (in general) are considered a wear item like brakes. Your original factory VW clutch had a zero miles warranty (no warranty IOW) No clutch will last forever and eventually they all wear out. Just like brakes.

But never known one to fail from "abuse"

though I suppose if you were determined enough, anything's possible... like ride it (pedal half in) towing a trailer or something ( continuously, intentionally slipped like that... ANY clutch will burn up eventually)

Aspiring competitors come and go from the marketplace (it seems monthly)... but you can always count on south bend being there with a damn good clutch

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Not sure where these numbers are coming from. South Bend themselves rate the SB2 Daily @ 325 ft/lbs and Endurance @ 350 ft/lbs...

http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/ecommerce/K70316F-HD-O.cfm?item_id=3461
http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/ecommerce/K70316F-HD-OFE.cfm?item_id=3462

 

[79TA7.6]

To everyone who posted advice and power info, thank you. To all who posted other ideas, thank you. To anyone who might have got their feathers in a ruffle over anything said here, sorry, was not meant to go down like that. I think I have decided on a clutch. Now it is time to see if it will warm up any in the real near future so I can pull my valve cover off. I am getting some valve train noise that was not there 40-50K ago. I want to see if I need to add a cam and lifters to my order since I will be doing the timing belt the same time.

 

[Geobmx4life]

Spec 2+ clutch

Any input after having it installed? What are your power adders?

Clutch is in, drove 8 hrs straight to work with it. A bit of noise at idle,but I went with a heavier steel fly wheel. Shifts smooth and the pedal feels lighter than stock. Holds great under WOT. IM HAPPY With it so far.

 

[Sc0]

I had problems with an older SBC Stage3 Endurance clutch with kevlar facings, some reason the clutch grew louder so I dropped the tranny and found the spring retainers were eating the clutch hub springs so replaced it. I just pulled out a Clutchmaster Stage2 kit, which also eventually got louder since I installed it in '11, the surfaces and everything looks good but since the springs are fully housed I cannot verify their condition. I have a NEW Quiet SBC Stage-3 endurance clutch kit just installed that was purchased from Kerma sometime back, will update on durability later on with the GTB1756VK, R520's, TDTuning, and 11mm pump. I like to do preventative maintenance when I can and to make sure I don't have to go back in a certain area for many thousands of miles afterwards, hoping that the new setup gives me a long and happy troublefree life.