Carplay options

[Nuje]

If you're looking at dropping $1000 for new hardware, I'd seriously consider chipping in a bit more and upgrading to a MIB2.

 

[frey]

Don't want to complicate anything. Took the dealer 3 hours to figure out the infotainment module was not original to the car, and 2 hours to diagnose and fix the interior lights when the bulbs were just missing from the sockets. Yeah, I know, I am an idiot for not checking that myself but who removes all the bulbs from the interior lights? Fooled the dealer too as clearly the bulbs are the first item on the DX flow chart. Assuming checking the module for originality is also THE FIRST THING ON THE FLOW CHART when you see a CP code. Going to be fun discussing this with the service manager when it comes time to write the check.

 

[BarryT82]

Just got off the phone with the VW dealer in Iowa City. Radio and module in glovebox not original to the car. Interior lights not working because there were no bulbs in the sockets! I assumed there was a wiring problem. VW assumed there was a wiring problem. Mouse nest cleaned out of dash area. Wiring all good. BCM good. Problem is $s for diagnostic work. Spent all morning on diagnostics. They want 1K for new radio and module, programmed and installed. At $750 right now for DX! How long to figure out the radio was not original? How long to figure out there were no bulbs? Total bill will be $1750! I am going to have them get everything working then talk to them about gross inefficiency in DXing the problems. And I hate myself for not checking the bulb sockets for bulbs

Why would you spend $1k on the original radio would you could upgrade for that?

 

[frey]

Honestly don't think the dealer could handle the upgrade; running the new cable, programming the BCM. There isn't a good option locally to the dealer. I would like to know how much time it would take to figure out that the info module was non-original. Did I read correctly that all you have to do is look up the VIN assigned to the module using a laptop/vagcom?

 

[pedroYUL]

Did I read correctly that all you have to do is look up the VIN assigned to the module using a laptop/vagcom?

Yes, literally 5min with VCDS. The car's VIN for the part (Infotainment in this case) is spelled out when you open the module (5F in this case).

 

[frey]

Wow. Dealer has a lot of explaining to do. Will be interesting to find out the VIN on the module that was in the car. Might be able to trace it to the shop that installed it and initiated the CP.

 

[frey]

Last post on this CP code problem. Radio works now, interior lights work. Dealer presented a bill for $1788 this morning. $901 for labor to diagnose missing bulbs from sockets ($385) and to determine that the F5 module (infotainment) was a non-original part and needed to be replaced with a new module. Stood there for 20 minutes going over the bill, specifically the diagnosis charges. They thought I should pay for going down the rabbit hole checking the BCM and wiring. They finally agreed to drop the related labor charges. Gave them a check for $886 and we "parted ways" as the boss put it. As I left the counter, the 1st manager said "thanks for taking food from my family." Unbelievable from the guy who completely blew a simple diagnosis and repair. All the brilliant tech he was supervising had to do was identify the locked up part as being non-original, and check the light sockets for bulbs. I greatly appreciate all the expert help from you folks on this forum. Without this information, I probably would have paid the bill.

 

[Nuje]

As I left the counter, the 1st manager said "thanks for taking food from my family."

Passive-aggressive BS like this drives me nuts. Like his "family" eats $150 worth of food per hour (or whatever the hour rate is at the shop). What a great way to chase away future business. (The "jerk store" retort, of course, is "If you weren't so bad at your job, maybe your family wouldn't be starving." But we're decent people here, so we wouldn't stoop to their level.)

You know what keeps people coming back?
Being a [expletive] professional! You overlooked something simple and obvious (we've all probably done this - I know I have). Say to the customer, "Yeah - we really should have caught that; no charge to you for our oversight and here's 10% off coupon for next service."
Learn from it, move on.

I hope you can find a better dealer.

 

[740GLE]

First of you're asking a dealer to do something that's completely out of the normal dealer work, they should have been completely upfront with you by stating something like "it could cost this, but there is a high chance it's going to cost more". Shame on them for over promising with out fully explaining pitfalls of GFF leading to crazy time suck.

Second no shop could possibly predict you had bunk parts until they were elbow deep into the work.

IMO both parties should have learned something, that dealer will never prob offer the same service as it's not worth their time, they'd rather change oil and file warranty work, you should also learn what seems easy on the internet cause some other person had it easy/cheaply doesn't mean you're experience will be the same.

 

[frey]

The dealer didn't promise anything. This was an open-ended repair. Fact is, the part number on the info module didn't match the car: Non-original module causing the CP. Says right in the owner's manual that a non-original part will trigger the CP code and the part in question will not function. What would you check first? The wiring? The BCM? 5 hours into their search for the cause of the CP they called and told me they probably needed to program a new BCM and couldn't guarantee that it would solve the problem, it was going to be expensive, but it was their best guess. That was after $750 in labor, which included putting bulbs in the sockets. It was only after I balked at the BCM replacement that they figured out the module had been replaced. Why not check the part first? Technician half asleep? Forgot the training section on CP codes?

 

[740GLE]

So you agreed to an open ended repair/mod the dealer wasn't familiar with, then were shocked they billed for the hours they spend to learn things they've never attempted before?

Sure the dealer should have had the knowledge to make it a 2-3 hr job, but by them stating it was an open ended repair/mod with no fixed cost, you opened yourself up for the glutton that is dealer techs hourly rate.

 

[frey]

That's it exactly. Pretty crazy that the dealer was unfamiliar with what to do with a CP code. I made the mistake of assuming that originality was the 1st thing they checked, and that these guys knew at least as much about CP as I did with a google search. Maybe they should have familiarized themselves.

 

[Cuzoe]

I work in aircraft maintenance and we sometimes give customers a quote for "Time and Materials" for a troubleshooting job, as opposed to a labor flat rate for something routine. If at the end of a 10 hour job we find that we missed something documented (or even something not explicitly documented but obvious, like missing bulbs) there's no way we would charge that 10 hours. That's poor practice, regardless of the open ended nature of the forms we require them to fill out before we even set foot on the aircraft. At my position I determine how long it should have taken and charge accordingly.

In our case, our customers know way less about their aircraft than even the average person knows about their car. In fact, I could come up with a long description of the rabbit hole we went down and it's unlikely they could even Google anything because aircraft manuals are proprietary. In other words, even with no concern that a customer could coherently refute the excessive part of our charges we don't try and charge them. As a customer, even with an open-ended job, I am agreeing to pay you to do the work not to learn to do the work.

And I'm with @Nuje, taking food off his table? Unless the service advisor and/or tech owns the shop (which they don't, because it's a dealer service center) the labor that customers pay is only tangentially tied to their pay. Everyone in my shop gets paid their hourly whether we are working aircraft efficiently, working them inefficiently, sweeping floors or doing "training" due to lack of work. Those that consistently work ineptly or inefficiently are encouraged and developed into better technicians and where that doesn't work they are let go or moved to a position they can perform.

If so many customers are rightly not paying for excessive labor hours spent doing the job incorrectly that a dealer service center (with it's captive customer base) closes that is a management failure. At that point, those involved have participated in a group effort to remove food from each other's tables.

Sorry for the rant, gets me mad.

 

[740GLE]

Comparing a VW dealer to an aircraft shop is kind of a stretch, each dealer is independent organization some shady AF some legit good shops.

The service department is an independent arm of the dealer with the Service Advisor on the hook for the shop getting paid for hours worked by the tech. I wouldn't put it past some aggressive shops to have a "split" between the Dealer and the Service Advisor if the customer complaints about a rate/charge and its above a certain amount, management steps in and splits that cost between the two. That'd be an incentive for the SA to keep the customer informed of all possible costs.

Not saying this is the case here but i wouldn't be surprised if the SA was dinged a bit so he learned a lesson.

 

[Cuzoe]

Aircraft shops are mostly independent as well, with their own repair station certificate and list of models they are certified to work on. Some are shady and some are legit. Although there is a Gulfstream facility at the airport where I work, there are 8+ other shops that work on Gulfstream aircraft, all independent.

In the end, customers shouldn't directly pay for techs to learn. Pay for troubleshooting... absolutely that's what an open ended maintenance request is designed for, and techs do learn by troubleshooting. But if I say a dome light is out, and the tech does not check the bulb but goes down a rabbit hole of suspecting/checking everything from wiring to control modules I shouldn't pay for that. It's laughable.

The whole reason for a lot of the guided troubleshooting is to prevent excessive hours being wasted on labor that customer's should rightly refuse to pay for. And where there isn't guided troubleshooting I'm paying for the knowledge/expertise of the shop performing the work. Training technicians is an operating cost that's built into the overall labor rate but a service center shouldn't directly bill the customer for the cost of sending a mechanic to ASE School. That's an exaggeration but practically what happened to @frey. Whether the tech was unfamiliar, unknowledgeable or just had a brain fart, it's ridiculous that an attempt was made to pass that cost to the customer.

Maybe the SA was dinged but even if not I'm sure a lesson was learned. That the SA didn't take responsibility and tried to blame the customer for "taking food from their family" is... malarkey, haha.