Buying a TDI in MA and transporting back to PA

[MP517PRCT]

I found a TDI in Massachusetts that I would like to buy and take back to Pennsylvania. From what I have seen, MA is nothing short of a total PITA for out-of-state buyers. With no Temp Tags, I have to drive my car up to MA, buy the TDI, drive my car back to PA (and leave the TDI in MA), register the car in PA, then drive back to MA, put my plate on it and then drive it and my other car home!

Before I go any farther, I am not going to "just slap an old plate on it and cross my fingers" I don't care to risk getting pulled over.

So, my question is "What do I need to do in MA to get the title signed over to me?" In the past I have found different states have different requirements. (PA and NC require a trip to the DMV or a Notary, while NJ was a simple as the seller and I both signing the back of the title while sitting in his living room).

Do I need to go to the MA RMV to transfer the title if I am not going to register the car in MA?

 

[\/\/0J0]

Can't you buy temp or transport tags in PA to take to MA? All you need to register in PA is a signed, notarized title. In TN, you have 3 days to drive around with no tags provided you have a bill of sale and signed title, no notary endorsement needed. Probably wouldn't work in your case given some of the fascist States that you need to drive through to get back to PA. The other thought is a car dolly...

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[ZippyNH]

Living in NH, I have bought 2 cars is mass....
Issue is to get a temp plate, they will charge you FULL SALES TAX...
I avoided it by going an hour back to NH, , getting plates, then going back with them to mass....
Regionally it is a mess...I cannot even use NH temp plates in MA, since they will not recognize them since they view all my residents as tax cheats...most states (regionally) will skip the tax on big ticket items if the planned use is out of state....heck... Mass will do this on appliances, but not cars.....
Me....I would do what I did the first time....toss you old plates on it...drive home safely even though it is illegal, so is speeding....did that on my first MA car buy....felt odd, but the plates were in MY name, and I did have active insurance, so having two cops in the family I asked....
They kinda said that it not right, BUT the intent if the law is traceability of the car with a plate, so you MIGHT get a free pass if something came up...if you are a good talker anyway....and can explain what you just said above...situation just sucks...
Simplest thing....might be have it towed, or use a dolly-tow.....

 

[Abacus]

I've bought cars across the border, even in Canada and never had an issue. Once you put the temporary tags on the car and it's insured in your state, there is nothing the previous state can do or say about it. This included Canada, where I bought my last car and drove it home.

Once you purchase the car and your home state recognizes the sale, along with issued paperwork, the previous state has no jurisdiction since it's no longer their property.

 

[MP517PRCT]

Thank you all for your input, but the question still remains. Do I need to go to the RMV or a Notary to sign the title over?

Also, PA will not issue a temp tag without having the title-in-hand so I can't get a temp tag before I drive up to MA.

 

[\/\/0J0]

You do not need to go to the mass rmv since you are not registering the vehicle in mass and they do not offer temp or transport tags. You will want to go to a notary or AAA, if you're a member, to sign and have the title notarized as PA dmv will not be happy about title that is not notarized--I speak from experience here. In doing some research for you, it looks like your only *legal* options are to complete the sale and travel back to PA in your old car to get tags to bring back to your new car -or- trailer the new car back to PA.

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[MP517PRCT]

VV0J0 - thank you!

 

[johnboy00]

If not for the PA notary requirement, The seller could sign the title to you, without your signature, and Fedex it, assuming you were willing to make a purchase before seeing the vehicle.

Its also possible, that a Mass notary might notarize a title transfer without your signature, since the authority to transfer the title falls solely on the owner. You could look into this.

Its just as difficult for a Massachusetts resident to bring a car into the state. We need to bring the title and bill of sale to our insurance company to get an insurance stamp, before we can go to the Registry and get plates.

 

[MP517PRCT]

I called a local tag agent here in PA...

I do not need to have the title notarized, however they have to do a VIN tracing (i.e. pencil and paper rubbing), so I have to have the car with me in PA to get tags. Grrrr! What a Catch-22!

It's looking more like a one way rental of a U-Haul tow dolly ($89), and taking the gasser Jeep Liberty is going to be a lot cheaper than a two day, one-way car rental ($112).

 

[1854sailor]

Ah, the Registry. When I moved back home to Baltimore from Massachusetts in the 80s, I mailed my tags to the registry certified, with a return receipt. Two years later, I got a delinquent excise tax bill from Waltham for back taxes, threatening to cancel my registration. The Registry had apparently failed to notify the city that I had sent my tags in. Luckily, I had kept the return receipt in my files and, even though it took a couple of months to happen, it worked out in my favor.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I've bought a bunch of cars in other states and brought them to MA, but not gone the other way. It's true that MA offers no temporary tags. However, I'm not sure why you couldn't get PA temp tags and drive home with those. When I've bought cars out of state I had to get the signed title from the seller, obtain insurance and plates in MA, and take them with me when I picked up the car.

If the car is currently registered and insured, another option is to ask the seller to let you use his plates to drive the car home. Then the car is still properly registered and insured in MA until you apply for registration and title in PA. You can then ship the plates back to the seller.

 

[Tdijarhead]

Would the notary be satisfied with a phone pic of the vin and the car? The seller could surely do that much so you could get the temp tags if that would work for the notary.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

Is the car you're buying currently plated and registered? When I bought my B4 almost 5 years ago from a club member,he had just registered it a couple months before and he very kindly let me drive it back home to NY with his Mass. plates,which I mailed back on a Monday. If it's not registered,you could always drive up,pay and complete transaction,come back to PA. and get new plates and insurance for the TDI,then have a friend drive you back to pick it up.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Maybe I do this too often, but I don't have issues buying from out of state and bringing into MA, nor with selling to out of MA buyers.
The MA side is easy. Pay the man, get the title signed to you, and you're done with MA. No notary is required.

Now it's yours, what does PA need? It doesn't matter what MA wants, it isn't owned by a MA resident any more. MA requires sales tax be paid for vehicles registered in MA. You're not registering it in MA, so you don't pay any sales tax in MA.

You need to find out from PA what to do.



IBW: MA does permit 7 day transfer of plates and registration to a new-to-you vehicle provided specific requirements are met: not under 18 years old, lose possession of the old vehicle, the replacement vehicle is the same class (car to car, bike to bike, truck to truck, 4 wheel to 4 wheel, etc.).
I end up selliing my old car to my brother, although he doesn't know it, and then picking up the new one using the old plates. Invariably I get my old car returned to me fewer than 7 days later and he has no recollection of the episode. Go figure....

 

[MP517PRCT]

Got the TDI, but it turned out to be a whole different set of problems than I was expecting...

The car is an '05.5 with 140k that needs body work, but has a drivetrain in excellent condition and the price was good enough to make it worthwhile to a DIY'er. The issue that I didn't bother to ask about ahead of time was the fact that the owner is currently living in Roxbury, MA but is a PA resident and the car is titled in PA and registered in his father's name. So, didn't need the VIN traced since the car was already titled in PA. The problems arose since PA requires the title to be notarized but since I was in MA (with the car) and the actual owner (the seller's father) was in PA. I towed the car back to York, PA last night left the car at home and then drove my '09 JSW up to the Pocanos (2-1/2 hours away) this morning, met the owner and transferred the title.

It didn't require two trips to Boston, and I could have done it more efficiently had I planned it out better, but the biggest lesson learned is "never assume anything".

 

[cevans]

I think you were preoccupied with MA law and didn't pay enough attention to PA law. Where you buy the car FROM isn't important, where you are trying to REGISTER it is.

 

[Oo-v-oO]

It's true that MA offers no temporary tags. However, I'm not sure why you couldn't get PA temp tags and drive home with those.

Nope, Mass doesn't recognize any temp plates as valid.

I bought a truck in NY and drove down from NH through Mass and CT with my wife to get it. We were told in no uncertain terms by more then one employee at the NY DMV to NOT drive back through Mass, as the police love to pull over anybody with temp plates. Instead, we had to drive North through NY and VT then cross over into NH, in a snowstorm. Fun times.

 

[Abacus]

It's not up to them. They cannot pick and choose what laws from other states they don't like. That comes under Interstate Commerce.

 

[MikeS_18]

It's not up to them. They cannot pick and choose what laws from other states they don't like. That comes under Interstate Commerce.

They can for their citizens. And I'd like to see you arguing this on the side of the road with a state trooper.

http://www.agordon.com/new-to-ma-blog/bid/82885/Use-of-Temporary-Plates-in-Massachusetts. Letter from RMV to Insurance Agents Association of MA.

“Massachusetts does not issue temporary registration plates for its own residents but it does recognize temporary registration plates validly registered in other states to non-residents of Massachusetts who are temporarily operating in this state (assuming the plates are not expired or suspended.) Thus, a Connecticut resident operating a motor vehicle in Massachusetts on validly issued temporary Connecticut registration plates is OK, but a Massachusetts resident operating a newly purchased motor vehicle in Massachusetts with validly issued temporary Connecticut plates is not. A Massachusetts resident who purchases a motor vehicle in another state must apply for and attach valid Massachusetts registration plates to the vehicle before he/she can drive the vehicle back to Massachusetts.”

 

[ZippyNH]

They can for their citizens. And I'd like to see you arguing this on the side of the road with a state trooper.
http://www.agordon.com/new-to-ma-blog/bid/82885/Use-of-Temporary-Plates-in-Massachusetts. Letter from RMV to Insurance Agents Association of MA.
“Massachusetts does not issue temporary registration plates for its own residents but it does recognize temporary registration plates validly registered in other states to non-residents of Massachusetts who are temporarily operating in this state (assuming the plates are not expired or suspended.) Thus, a Connecticut resident operating a motor vehicle in Massachusetts on validly issued temporary Connecticut registration plates is OK, but a Massachusetts resident operating a newly purchased motor vehicle in Massachusetts with validly issued temporary Connecticut plates is not. A Massachusetts resident who purchases a motor vehicle in another state must apply for and attach valid Massachusetts registration plates to the vehicle before he/she can drive the vehicle back to Massachusetts.”

The devil is in the details....
They (Massachusetts) doesn't recognize NH temp plates....yup.....not sure what other states...
See...in NH you don't need the title in hand, just a VIN and an ID ...NH figures only an idiot would try to get a temp plate on a stolen car, and the title will be in hand for the regular plate, and be checked....but Mass says due to this, the NH temp is INVALID....and ANY NH driver can be fined, ticketed, towed or arrested for driving a NH plate into Mass....here on the state line area, temps are rare...but Mass will give a NH resident a temp IF you pay the sales tax....so it more about TAXES than anything imo....we call it TAX-ACHUSETTS in the area for a reason....
Just one more crazy thing to deal with with Massachusetts....lots of if's and thens...local help is always important....

 

[Abacus]

They can for their citizens. And I'd like to see you arguing this on the side of the road with a state trooper.

Gladly, but there is no need to argue since I'm betting they know the law.

The original question was from someone in PA asking about getting a car in MA. They can use temporary (transit) tags if PA issues temporary (transit) tags. Maine will issue a transit plate if the vehicle is insured and it's good from one spscific location to another, not to drive around on. I'm thinking this is where the confusion lies, in the difference between temporary and transit. MA is bound to honor temporary/transit tags issued from another state. To not is to violate the interstate commerce clause and is in fact, against the law.

Then the statement made was that MA doesn't recognize any temporary tags. This statement is false since they have to from other states. That they do not issue temporary tags within their own state is not germane to this discussion.

 

[MikeS_18]

Ok you win at the internet today. wow.

 

[BrentRN]

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/dvspubsforms/BMV/BMV Fact Sheets/fs-toos.pdf

This explains how to register an out-of-state car in PA

To drive it back to PA I would just leave the MA plates on if you can. Keep a copy of the title and sales receipt if you get stopped for some reason. This doesn't how long you have to get it registered in PA but I think it no more than 30 days.

 

[ZippyNH]

Nope, Mass doesn't recognize any temp plates as valid.
I bought a truck in NY and drove down from NH through Mass and CT with my wife to get it. We were told in no uncertain terms by more then one employee at the NY DMV to NOT drive back through Mass, as the police love to pull over anybody with temp plates. Instead, we had to drive North through NY and VT then cross over into NH, in a snowstorm. Fun times.

+1
Have bought 2 cars in Massachusetts....live in NH....and have been told this, again and again.
Dealers in Massachusetts WILL NOT LET YOU LEACE THE LOT with temp plates.
They are considered invalid.

 

[ZippyNH]

Gladly, but there is no need to argue since I'm betting they know the law.

The original question was from someone in PA asking about getting a car in MA. They can use temporary (transit) tags if PA issues temporary (transit) tags. Maine will issue a transit plate if the vehicle is insured and it's good from one spscific location to another, not to drive around on. I'm thinking this is where the confusion lies, in the difference between temporary and transit. MA is bound to honor temporary/transit tags issued from another state. To not is to violate the interstate commerce clause and is in fact, against the law.

Then the statement made was that MA doesn't recognize any temporary tags. This statement is false since they have to from other states. That they do not issue temporary tags within their own state is not germane to this discussion.

If you get pulled over with temps in Massachusetts, you are likely to get towed. Period.
Argue all you want about "interstate commerce", but when push comes to shove.... Massachusetts doesn't care.
Not saying folks don't get away with it.....
But even had u really want to be a test case in court?!
Massachusetts enforced blue laws as late as the mid 80's in some areas....the rules might be dated, but till they are off the books, they are the law.

 

[\/\/0J0]

Sure makes me happy to be living in southern Appalachia. There's no place for me in the northeast. I left Pennsylvania 6 years ago and haven't looked back

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[Abacus]

If you get pulled over with temps in Massachusetts, you are likely to get towed. Period.
Argue all you want about "interstate commerce", but when push comes to shove.... Massachusetts doesn't care.
Not saying folks don't get away with it.....
But even had u really want to be a test case in court?!
Massachusetts enforced blue laws as late as the mid 80's in some areas....the rules might be dated, but till they are off the books, they are the law.

I'll tell you what, if they towed my car when it was legal, you can bet we'd settle it in court. Period.

I don't care that Massachusetts doesn't care, because the law is not on their side. And any lawyer worth anything would pick up the case with the knowledge of an almost certain payout because of that fact.

And what do Blue Laws (Maine has them as well) have to do with this? Unless they have a law not specifically contradicted, they can do as they like. Here in Maine there are many laws like this but this one in particular is clear. I have relatives who are/were cops in Mass and there are many things they don't like about weekenders 'invading' their state but they don't have a choice in the matter. They will try and find other things but let's face it, if this is what they're going after, maybe they should be in a different line of work, one without professional responsibility.

But getting back to the original issue: I have never had, nor heard of anyone who has had, an issue buying or transporting a car in/through Mass with a temporary/transit permit issued by their state.

 

[Oo-v-oO]

Simplest thing....might be have it towed, or use a dolly-tow.....

Can't use a tow dolly on an unregistered vehicle. This is true for both MA and NH, and probably other states as well - but not VT, last I checked.

I just looked at the NY state in-transit permit application and it says in bold letters "NOT VALID IN MASSACHUSETTS".

 

[MP517PRCT]

Can't use a tow dolly on an unregistered vehicle. This is true for both MA and NH, and probably other states as well - but not VT, last I checked.
I just looked at the NY state in-transit permit application and it says in bold letters "NOT VALID IN MASSACHUSETTS".

Oh, well... guess I broke the law, and got away with it!

 

[Powder Hound]

Can't use a tow dolly on an unregistered vehicle. This is true for both MA and NH, and probably other states as well - but not VT, last I checked.

I just looked at the NY state in-transit permit application and it says in bold letters "NOT VALID IN MASSACHUSETTS".

Meaning, you can't have the rear 2 wheels on the road, all 4 wheels need to be on a trailer?

Cheers,

PH