BRM Cam Failure

[dieselpony]

I've read some of this thread and it makes my head spin. I need to replace the cam. Is there a general consensus on who makes the best replacement cam kit? Is that kit proven (multiple vehicles with over 100K miles on the cam with no perceptible wear)?

I knew the cam was showing wear and now it has the dreaded intake noise. It will be sitting until the cam is replaced.

Yea - there's a lot of info on here. I replaced mine in March of this year -- wanted to wait until there were more tests and data on replacement cams, but my wear metals were so high in my oil analysis that it just seemed wrong to wait. I went with Frank's kit and I'm glad I did - have 11k miles on it since replacement and all seems well. Frank will also answer your questions and provide guidance.

I think all of us replacing PD cams now -- and those who have been doing it for the last few years, are all helping provide data.

 

[thomps33]

Thanks everyone. I sent Frank a pm. How necessary is the chrome plating and the cut bearings? Anybody have a good experience without those options?

 

[cdutton]

Sounds real similar to mine. My cam has copper showing on 3 of the lobes does that mean it needs to be replaced. idles fine but more noise at intake when reving up seems to be getting worse. but on hiway its hard to tell unless you accelerate then it leaves black smoke and kind of bogs if u press to hard
Please help
One place said bent valve but I dont see how it could run that well and idle that good with bent valve,
seems like injector or cam to me.
Thanks

 

[TonyJetta]

My cam has copper showing on 3 of the lobes does that mean it needs to be replaced.

Generally, yes.

but on hiway its hard to tell unless you accelerate then it leaves black smoke and kind of bogs if u press to hard

When mine was close to failing, I would see puffs of sooty diesel exhaust upon initial acceleration and when changing gears.

One place said bent valve but I dont see how it could run that well and idle that good with bent valve,

You are correct. A bent valve would leave the engine very hard to start, if it would at all. Not to mention there would be codes and a CEL set.

I don't know names off hand...there should be several TDI Gurus near you. At the top of TDI101 is a sticky, 'Trusted TDI Mechanics". They are your best bet. You can also post back in you want an opinion on a particular mechanic before going to see them.

Tony

 

[SVTWEB]

Add another victim... Did a timing belt 6 weeks ago... now at 206K I am pulling the cam to replace it. Yesterday on the way home the car "hiccupped" at about 65MPH and the definitive sound of vavle clatter started... Quiet as can be at idle, but bupping in the intake tube and positive pressure when I remove the oil filler cap. Removed the valve cover and the cam is toast... Oil changed every 10K since new.... Very poor design. the Mk1 Rabbit diesel did almost 600K before it burned more oil than fuel....

 

[TonyJetta]

Very poor design.

Agreed!

I strongly suggest member Franko6 for cam, followers, bearings, and the latest mod to improve oiling to the cam. His contact info is in the link in my signature, "Cyl Head Repair".

Tony

 

[SVTWEB]

Well.. Did the R&R of the cam yesterday. Exhaust on Number one had just started to hole the lifter. Had a hole about .010" with the oil seeping out when you squeeze the lifter. Cam was also toast. I'll post some pictures and I am going to mic everything. All exhausts tappets were cupped with stress fractures, intakes were also worn, but not as bad. Bearing #1 was down to copper, rest of the bearings on the lower were through the top layer. Top bearings were fine.

A less than adequate design given the advances in metalurgy and FEA computer modeling.

 

[oldpoopie]

Eric, had you ever pulled the valve cover to inspect prior to this? Any evidence of wear at the 1st belt job?

 

[SVTWEB]

Had TDIRacing do my timing belt back in 2007 at 100K, there wasn't much chatter on the boards back then about cam issues. I did the timing belt about 6 weeks ago along with a plethora of other PM work but didn't have the sense to check the cam. I do have all the lifters labled and plan on taking the cam and lifters into work to do some analysis on them.

Back in the day when we ran the ford 2.3L turbo Mustangs we would cut a groove in the cam journals and machine extra oiling holes in the bearings to increase the oil flow to the cam and thus the followers. The major difference was that on the Fords the cam was hollow and each lobe had an oiling hole on the base lobe to allow a constant oil flow on the follower.

 

[Bob S.]

Eric; Your learned input and experience on this subject will be interesting to read.

 

[bgbearnavy]

Add my name to the list of CAM failures. I was running a test per below link. But, based upon this long list of people maybe the oil isn't to blame.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=230038

 

[bgbearnavy]

The joke is on US!

I know that if I use the specified oil and factory OCI's and I have this kind of wear at 100k miles, this will be my first and last VW.

I am at a loss, so much for great "German" engineering!

 

[bgbearnavy]

Poor German Engineering

Anyone know the reason why this excessive cam wear occurs? Wrong oil type, dirty intake air, bad fuel?

Poor German Engineering

 

[bgbearnavy]

That is what I thought

oh, thats funny, because my PD is running pretty good right now at 191,000 MILES and im not even using 505.01 oil!

I had my head in the sand too!

 

[motonomad]

Hi - fairly new to TDIClub, but have already found great references here, so I'm writing now with a problem of my own. I have a 05.5 Jetta TDI that I bought used with 32k miles - currently it's at 86K miles. Driving from Albuq. to Flagstaff yesterday, started hearing tapping "valve noise" .....

Mechanic in Prescott took off valve cover and showed me wear on camshaft at #1 lobe, He's recommending replacing the whole cylinder head, cam and all, to the tune of $5000...!

I know this is an old thread, but was curious who this mechanic was and what you decided. I'm in the EXACT same situation in Prescott. Was it Prescott Import Car Service?

 

[DanG144]

You can get by much cheaper than that, usually.

I have seen broken valves and ruined heads from running it too long with a bad cam, but normally there is no need to replace the head.

Cam and lifters, usually timing belt at the same time is often all that is needed. It is still expensive.

And we are not there, seeing what he is seeing. He may be right.

 

[xracerbob]

How long will the replacement cam last?

So I replaced the first cam at about 200,000 miles. Well now the car has 411,000 miles on it and I'm wondering about the life of this cam. I'm the original owner- this cam has had only Rotella T6 and it looks fine, but so did the first one when inspected about 10,000 miles before it failed.

Anybody have any high mileage data on replacement cams?

 

[SVTWEB]

Anybody have any high mileage data on replacement cams?

Don't want to be a jinx... but the new cams and especially the lifters are of a different design. I only have 25K on my new cam so I have another 175K to go. I made 206K on my first cam. Maybe they came up with a better solution that can go 300+...

 

[James & Son]

So I replaced the first cam at about 200,000 miles. Well now the car has 411,000 miles on it and I'm wondering about the life of this cam. I'm the original owner- this cam has had only Rotella T6 and it looks fine, but so did the first one when inspected about 10,000 miles before it failed.

Anybody have any high mileage data on replacement cams?

Your question is bizarre and my answer is the same, at 50,000 miles towards the end of 2009 I was replacing my cam while you were already getting close to replacing yours at 200,000 in 2010. I am trying everything in the book to make my second cam last 100,000 miles, I am at 67000 miles on the cam.If I make it to 100,000 then you will make it 300,000 miles.

Now why is your out come based on my outcome. There is a correlation in all the data that ties all are outcomes together.

 

[SVTWEB]

Just putting this out there to place things into perspective... xracerbob and I have both managed to get over 200K on the first cam. We have done this in less than 7 years of vehicle ownership. That means that I am doing over 28K miles a year. Or over 500 Miles per week. That is a lot of driving... xracerbob is doing almost twice that. James & Son - You had 50K in 3 years or 16K miles/year... 320/week.... Logic would dictate that long periods of driving at a constant speed have little effect on the wear of the cam, but short driving and stop and go have a negative impact. So all the hi-mileage commuters out there should be able to get 200K without a problem out of the cams, but if you just do short hops your cam will fail sooner. The jury is still out on the new design of the cam and lifters, but I am sure given a couple of years we will find out if that design fails, and it will probably be with a low-mileage, short commute vehicle.

 

[Ron Lee]

I too am about to change my cam next week. I have just over 205,000 miles on my 05.5 Jetta TDI. When I had my TB changed at 101,000 miles, Oliver checked my cam and it showed signs of wear. From then on I've used either Rotella T6 or Shaeffers 9000 wit 4 oz. of ZDDPlus and I believe that is what has provided the longevity of this cam. This week the TB kit, TB tools, Cam kit, and filters showed up, so I intend to tackle the whole job myself. I'll let you know how the original cam looked once I pull it. Just waiting on the Joe Gibbs racing oil and lube to show up. I may get an engine support bar from HF. Just went on sale:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html

Ron

 

[4ringking]

I have not seen a faulty one in like two months. Interesting to here you made it to 205K with that oil combo.

 

[DanG144]

There were two owners that were told last August at a GTG that they had severe cam wear on their BRMs.

Neither one had taken action by April of this year, and both of them had holed lifters and the off-time valve actuation by the injector drive lobe that causes the bupping sound of exhaust back into the intake. Both cars were running very poorly.

No newly diagnosed issues have showed up this year, though.

 

[James & Son]

From RonLee comment, I wonder if a lot more people are monitoring and doctoring using zddplus. Jnitrofish was able to( slow or) arrest cam wear on his dads car by adding zddplus.
It does make sense if people break there cam in using break in oil or extra zddp that they would have the experiance and willingness to start adding it at the first sign of trouble.

Another thing is by using all black followers. I think it is impossible to get less than a 100,000 miles out of the lifters. Even if a couple of followers have galling at black break through( center dot tear out) the lobe is sound and starts to heal the scoring From what I see, the lobe smooths and peens to fill in and smooth the softer than lobe steel substrate and then maybe some work hardening and who knows how long it would last. I saw this healing on mine in 1500 km after black wear and break through but had already committed to replacing them. This is my latest thinking #1678 and latest update pictures #1680.

 

[TonyJetta]

For what it's worth, I've been using zddp and lubro moly 5w40 since I replaced the cam 3yrs/60k miles ago.
It's due for a Timing belt in 6 months; i'll be inspecting the cam at that time.

Tony
Sent from my e-diesel fleet

 

[oldpoopie]

. I may get an engine support bar from HF. Just went on sale:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html

Ron

The only thing I use my engine support bar for is doing clutches. It just gets in the way when doing a timing belt or cam/lifter job. Support the engine from below with a floor jack.

 

[Mechnurse]

Just had the cam replaced at 205k. We will see how this one does it not a factory part just need a tune now for the Engine and DSG

 

[A5INKY]

The only thing I use my engine support bar for is doing clutches. It just gets in the way when doing a timing belt or cam/lifter job. Support the engine from below with a floor jack.

Me too, much faster/easier with a floor jack. The floor jack method also has the added benefit of making it easier to raise or lower the engine a bit to improve access to the front engine mount bracket bolts when needed.

 

[runonbeer]

I have not seen a faulty one in like two months. Interesting to here you made it to 205K with that oil combo.

Yeah I think my last PD cam job was in February or something. PD cam wear is a non issue for me. When it happens, new cam. No big deal.

 

[LuvDaDiesel]

Just following the thread and thought that I would add my 2 cents. Changed my cam at 235,000, Pretty servere wear on cylinder #3 lobes. Bearings on 3 and 4 were worn the worst. Just the slightest wear on the bearings for 1 & 2. Nothing but mobil 1 0-40. I am hopeful to get another 2-300,000 on this job.