BANNED SUBJECT LIST: DSE, biofuelBasics, H2, non-taxed fuel, etc

Should Global Warming/Climate be a banned subject here?

  • Yes, please!

    Votes: 31 53.4%
  • No, eyes wide open!

    Votes: 27 46.6%

  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .

mobe

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http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/thread/7374.aspx

The Diesel Secret MSDS is here:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee.../4511077101/p/1

includes this, supposedly: "DSE additive Material Safety Data Sheet

General Synonyms: dimethylbenzene, xylol
Molecular formula: C6H4(CH3)2 This is a mixture of the three xylenes, m-xylene (CAS 108-38-3), o-xylene (CAS 95-47-6) and p-xylene (CAS106-42-3), and often also contains ethyl bezene (CAS 100-41-4)." also posted at that thread is an explanation of what they tell you to buy, more or less: a (questionable) SVO filtration system (they claim a Goldenrod will remove water apparently which I think is not accepted as true generally by experienced SVO'ers) and some household water filters for filtration (Dana Linscott has in the past posted some good reasons not to rely on pumping oil through those).

The MSDS for the 'additive' is available through their site. Apparently it's $13 plus $10 shipping, per each 12 oz bottle, which isn't a cheap habit when you add it to $3/gallon gasoline and diesel or kerosene and an additional cetane booster additive. You're supposed to mix the dimethylbenzene additive with filtered WVO and a lot of gasoline and kerosene and some cetane boost additive for good measure. In a 'Wal-Mart garbage can'. Just remember, safety first!

There have been people using blends of vegoil and diesel or gasoline ("thinning"), but there are cautions and problems with this approach. There have been very mixed results in the US with blends because both used vegoil and diesel seem to vary a lot and solid material sometimes seems to come out of solution (not known whether this is WVO-related or diesel-related).

Perhaps in Europe they're buying new SVO and blending it with petroleum thinners, which I can see being an easier blend to maintain than some of the WVO we collect here. The Bio-power people (also not very well regarded in the SVO / biodiesel world) mix up their magic potion and let the stuff sit for several weeks to allow waxy stuff to fall out, which seems like a different practice than the Diesel Secret shortcut promotes. Cold weather is a big issue with blends as well.

One (semi-critical) Infopop discussion forum thread on blends is here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee...51/m/1571038201 ,

both pros and cons are somewhat discussed.

I think Tilly did some viscosity tests at one point at the infopop forum, that showed that it's really difficult to get the viscosity of cold WVO blended with petroleum products to be anywhere near the viscosity of diesel, which means that some people's injectors can end up spraying poor spray pattern, which can eventually lead to coking of injectors, which leads to more poor spray pattern, which can lead to engine damage (one form of which is polymerised engine oil- your lube oil becomes a rock and your engine components seize) as has been noted in dozens or hundreds of scientific studies in the past few decades. I've actually seen this happen to three different users- two SVO, one biodiesel with poor engine maintenance and possible fuel quality problems. Some engines and fuel systems are more sensitive to this than others , apparently.

For more information on how this happens please see the University of Idaho summary of some of the old 'cold SVO' studies, some of which involved blends of SVO and diesel:
http://www.uidaho.edu/bae/biodiesel/rawoils.html (follow the link for the summarise of individual studies and what kind of damage resulted)

Of course the emissions of a mixture like this aren't known either but are probably quite a bit worse than if you were to do SVO right ('heated') or to use biodiesel, though emissions isnt' the marketing angle they're using.

The worst part of this Diesel Secret snake oil phenomenon is that they're marketing (via Google AdWords) very heavily and are attracting people who are completely new to biofuels and are not going to be able to get the hand-holding and support that blenders who participate in the SVO forums will get. The response in the SVO/biodiesel world has been extremely sceptical, and at TDI Club forums biodiesel section, there is even some concern that some of the recent discussion has been started by the DSE company's own 'shills' posing as legitimate posters. This seems to be a reasonable fear.

So... be afraid... be very afraid.
 
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BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
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No more threads about Diesel Secret Energy

Every few months we get a new round of posters who ask about Diesel Secret Energy. Most of these posters make one post asking about the product and never post again. They appear to be nothing but shills for the company.

With every new thread about DSE the common reaction from the membership is all negative so in the name of saving some bandwidth there are no threads allowed for this product or company. New members who post about DSE will be considered spammers and their accounts will be banned.

DSE has been discussed on TDIClub enough already so use the search to learn what the membership thinks of it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=193684


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=122949


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=169593


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=156742


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=149943


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=129487


There are more threads about DSE but I've posted enough links to get one started.

If anyone has anything to add to the DSE sticky, PM me with the changes and I'll add them. I have final say what gets added. Any DSE shills, cheerleaders, etc, need not bother to contact me.

.
 
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BKmetz

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BKmetz

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Biofuel Basics is now officially on the banned subjects list. Same rules apply as DSE.

biofuelbasics.com

If anyone sees any of these companies selling magic in a bottle, send me a PM with a URL and I will add them to the list.

Thank you.
.
 
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bakdoor

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I have a related question about the magical H2 generating systems--and this is why I don't think you all should be so quick to ban threads--there actually could be some further rational discussion to be had, but not if the thread is closed and locked!

Anyway, I saw this item on eBay and I was wondering, why couldn't this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260238547932&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016

I've read all the threads about how you'll never get back the energy that you used to break the water into H2 by injecting it into your intake and burning it, but this device doesn't use electrical energy from our alternator; it's using an electrolyte and a catalyst to "create" the H2. The thermodynamic laws aren't being compromised, and the entropy factor is not in play since you're not using the car's potential electric energy to make the H2. So why wouldn't it work?

I'm not trying to start a flame war or sell anything, but I think some further discussion is warranted.

Thoughts?
 
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darkscout

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spryde

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Honest answer: because no such catalyst exists in a practical or feasible form. Every catalyst so far is rare, expensive, extremely unstable alone, or impractical on a small scale (or a combination of the four).

The one you linked (even if it does work) produces so little hydrogen that it would not affect the TDI or any engine in any noticeable way.

Easy enough?

SP
 

bakdoor

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OK, cool. That's what I wanted to know. (I didn't think it would just be so easy as putting a can in the sink, DS.) I understood all the other arguments for the electrically generated H2, but I really didn't know anything about catalyst/electrolyte generation, ie. is it possible. Which was really the point I made earlier: sometimes there's more discussion to be had before the locking of the thread is carried out.

Thanks for the info and opinions, all.
 

iomonkey

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Bakdoor - here's another reason it won't work: (from the linked ebay store's feedback page)

It's a simple sugar canister with a air chuck glued in the top, make your own!!!get_ur_done ( 65
)
18-Mar-08 12:37 HYDROGEN GENERATOR (fuel cell biodiesel wind solar) Xlg (#260215487485)US $33.00View Item
 

FLMan

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some planet
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None right now
A friend of mine in the appliance business told me about this site http: link removed.com
He has some commercial vehicles and he said he was going to try it.

Is this product on the ban list as well?
 
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GoFaster

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YES, that's banned.

Anything that says "hydrogen" or "Brown's gas" or anything of the sort, in a situation in which the hydrogen is generated by electrolysis on-board in a manner in which it claims to be a fuel saver, is banned, regardless of who sells it or what it's called or what terminology is used.
 

FLMan

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some planet
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Well if this friend of mine uses it, and it does save him money, I will be buying the next one, or should I say 4. I will let you know either way how it goes for him.
 

BKmetz

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LOL @ ebubbler.com

Definately added to the list.

Thank you.
 

steakman

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Location
Calgary, alberta
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BK. Good to see these bans. Have encountered same garbage at BioD and Dieselplace forums.

Didn't Barnum come up with the comment..."there's a sucker born everyday". I feel for those that get taken in by supposed magical mpg improvement claims...but often wonder why their common sense abandoned them..?? Many of these people are professionals with some normal and above normal IQ. amazing eh.?:eek:

...bottom line is this...

One cannot create nor destroy energy.
& there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.

..all need to keep those two things in mind and all the DSE, H2 type of claims will look exactly like what they are .... TOTAL bs and nice little scams designed to separate you from your hard earned money.:cool:

Besdies, who in the world wants to handle xylenes anyway..??

cheers,

stk
 

whitedog

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New members who post about DSE will be considered spammers and their accounts will be banned.
OK. So Lefty is safe? He is a veteran member but just didn't know any better. I'm guessing that since he is not a NEW member that he is safe from the Ban stick? Yeah... I'm glad that there is some common sense on who gets bannerated. Thanks.
 

whitedog

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GoFaster said:
Saw that thread. No worries. That one sounded more like an honest mistake than a spam/shill.
Cool. Thanks. I know we all make mistakes and I would hate to see someone get the whole band for a mistake.
 

lupin..the..3rd

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Those "rare earth magnets" that you clamp onto your fuel lines that "align the fuel molecules" or some such BS should also be on the banned list.
 

whitedog

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lupin..the..3rd said:
Those "rare earth magnets" that you clamp onto your fuel lines that "align the fuel molecules" or some such BS should also be on the banned list.
But how often do we see that here?

I do know a gal that had them on her rig.

**Put the crack pipe down and step away from the truck**
 

BKmetz

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Innocent inquiries will NOT result in a ban. However, if someone refuses to take the hint with their threads getting locked and keeps pushing the issue, that would be interpreted as shilling.
 
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BKmetz

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E3 Fuels added to the banned subject list.

No usable information on its website. Lots of unrealistic numbers quoted to reduce pollution and improve mileage. E3 appears to be another miracle fuel additive.

This product is probably some mixture of the usual ingredients; mothballs, acetone, and Stoddard Solvent. No MSDS information available for this company and its products.

:rolleyes:
 
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FLMan

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FLMan said:
A friend of mine in the appliance business told me about this site http:link removed.com
He has some commercial vehicles and he said he was going to try it.

Is this product on the ban list as well?
You know, if you really think deeply about all these "wonder fuel savers"

If they were really so great, the would be installed on new vehicles at the factory, and even mandatory by law. Geez, I hope my friend did not fall for this yet.
 
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