TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
ooph... bad news indeed... I guess it's time to make the Mini faster...
Another 2260 Build
- Thread starter ChippedNotBroken
- Start date
diesel-dave
Veteran Member
yup, matt needs to build another
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
What are the deets on the valve springs?
87turboquattro
Veteran Member
the retainers are titanium,not the springs.springs are dual spring w/ 90lbs on the seat.standard set up for that spring.
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Thanks Wild Bill, I updated the OP to reflect the correct stats.
On the smoking front, nuttin bein' done till thursday or friday. Then off to dents for a tweak of the tune and a Dyno run
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ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
For those interested, after Dents there will be another Dyno Day. A few of us are going to be testing high performance CAM's.
This is the signup thread for the Jersey Dyno Day:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=297230
This is the signup thread for the Jersey Dyno Day:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=297230
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Put in the shine springs yesterday, getting the alignment today.
First impression, these things really raise up the front of the car. I haven't measured yet, but it looks to have raised up the front by about 1.5 to 2 inches while lowering the rear of the car. I will take pictures and measure from the ground to the frame today to see if the car is in fact level. They stiffened up the ride quite a bit, but on high frequency bumps where the FSD's did their thing, and loosened up, the stiffer springs were a bit bouncy but controllable (I think it's a good compromise) while there is still way too much lean in the front end of the car for comfort on fast turns.
We're going to try a stiffer sway bar in the front, drive it and then figure out how much we need to compensate for understeer with a sway bar on the rear.
This suspension has been bugging me since I bought the car. It's nice to feel like I am finally getting close to dialing it in.
Between tracing down an oil leak and troubleshooting the temp gauge issue we ran out of time and didn't get back to the smoke.
First impression, these things really raise up the front of the car. I haven't measured yet, but it looks to have raised up the front by about 1.5 to 2 inches while lowering the rear of the car. I will take pictures and measure from the ground to the frame today to see if the car is in fact level. They stiffened up the ride quite a bit, but on high frequency bumps where the FSD's did their thing, and loosened up, the stiffer springs were a bit bouncy but controllable (I think it's a good compromise) while there is still way too much lean in the front end of the car for comfort on fast turns.
We're going to try a stiffer sway bar in the front, drive it and then figure out how much we need to compensate for understeer with a sway bar on the rear.
This suspension has been bugging me since I bought the car. It's nice to feel like I am finally getting close to dialing it in.
Between tracing down an oil leak and troubleshooting the temp gauge issue we ran out of time and didn't get back to the smoke.
Scott02
Veteran Member
I think the shine kit does make the car look a little funny (sitting so front end high), but it handles really well.
Still too much body roll in the front end? I'm running shine/billy HD's/shine rear bar/stock front and my opinion is that it barely leans at all. Of course everything is relative.
I'm curious if yours actually does lean more.
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
It doesn't sit level at all.. it actually looks like a stock ALH automatic with the transmission out of it.. We didn't measure it last night, but it looked like about 5-6" of wheel gap in the front, and about 3" in the back.. Definitely too high in the front..
I don't think the FSD's are a good match for stiffer springs at all as they are designed to loosen up on sudden loads to soak up potholes and whatnot..
They would be better with the cheap TC Sports. I ran those for a LONG time and I was always happy with them. They met their match with a tree stump.. I have Koni Reds in mine now with GLI springs and mine handles beautiful.. a little body roll but nothing dramatic, and boy does it grip around turns, even bumpy turns..
Keebler145
Veteran Member
I'm with Scott I have bilstein HD shocks and struts with a rear o-bar. I had shine springs and the car was flat as a pancake to me and handled extremely well. I went back to stock springs though because I enjoyed my plusher ride. Car has a little more roll but still handles really well.
If you're still getting sway I would look at replacing your bushings in your LCA with solid rubber audi tt bushings and maybe something poly based. Check your rear axle bushings to, those being gone will cause the car to act funny. I replaced mine at the GTG at Matt's but you left before I finished, car handles worlds better.
edit: 6 inch wheel gap!! holy crap I want to see pictures of that!!
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Jersey Dyno Day will be Saturday November 20th! Signup link
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=297230
Pictures of the front and rear with the V6 Shine springs:
Measured from the ground to the base of the frame the front is a little over 1/2" higher than the back. Not exactly what I was expecting. The alignment was off by more than 2.5", got that fixed this morning and drove the car around for about 2 hours. Smoke has improved (meaning less smokey) but still no where near legal in any state.
The suspension is still squirrely in hard turns. The alignment helped, but did not cure. I am not ready to give up on the shine/FSD combo just yet, but need to find a cure for the height in front and the body roll on the front wheels in hard turning situations.
Been told to expect a tuning adjustment for Dyno day. Can't wait!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=297230
Pictures of the front and rear with the V6 Shine springs:
Measured from the ground to the base of the frame the front is a little over 1/2" higher than the back. Not exactly what I was expecting. The alignment was off by more than 2.5", got that fixed this morning and drove the car around for about 2 hours. Smoke has improved (meaning less smokey) but still no where near legal in any state.
The suspension is still squirrely in hard turns. The alignment helped, but did not cure. I am not ready to give up on the shine/FSD combo just yet, but need to find a cure for the height in front and the body roll on the front wheels in hard turning situations.
Been told to expect a tuning adjustment for Dyno day. Can't wait!
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I'm running Shine 4 cy springs with FSD's. he springs raised my front 1 1/2" to 5 1/2 at the back of the skid plate. It's not as high as yours. The car sits near level. I like how it handles with the FSD's. It's much better on the curves than when I got it. It wasn't totally stock then either.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Interesting to see it tomorrow. I am one of the many people who are locked out of the images site so I can't see the larger pictures. But it looks about right for the VR6 springs. The 4 cylinder springs would cause it to sit about 1/2" lower in the front.
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
I know that images never come up for me either. I have to log in a second time when it tells me I can't see them because I am not registered.
I may have mis-calculated the additional weight in front. The missing battery and mounting hardware was at least 60# out of the front. The skid plate, 6 speed, LSD and PD150 bottom end must not have added as much weight as I had calculated based on figures I gleaned off the site.
2footbraker
Veteran Member
I don't understand why anyone would go with a one size fits all shock with a non-spec spring combo. Unless you have a cup-kit, get a adjustable dampening shock so you can match up with the spring rate.
Whitbread
Vendor , w/Business number
The battery is about 60lbs lost from the front, but the 6 speed is just about 65 pounds heavier than a 5 speed. PD150 bottom end is negligible, and lsd is maybe 5-8 pounds more than the stock diff. Skid plate is maybe 20 lbs total. All in all, no major change.
What motivated you to take off the sleeper hubcaps
?ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Part of the reason I started this thread is to document the learning process. I may start a thread about all the mis-steps and screw-ups that got me to where I am now - hoping that others will learn from my mistakes. I read alot of threads on this and other forums, got a lot of conflicting advice, sometimes with all the noise it is hard to glean the facts. Right or wrong, I didn't get the adjustable damping strut because I was told that even on the softest setting that they were very harsh, right or wrong, that was the reason. I am not unhappy with the combination I have if I am able to solve the roll issue with the correct sway bars. Am I going down another dead end path, possibly, but suspension is such a subjective subject that I have found it almost impossible to make a "fact based" choice.The battery is about 60lbs lost from the front, but the 6 speed is just about 65 pounds heavier than a 5 speed. PD150 bottom end is negligible, and lsd is maybe 5-8 pounds more than the stock diff. Skid plate is maybe 20 lbs total. All in all, no major change.
What motivated you to take off the sleeper hubcaps
Yea, I screwed up on the weight and now the front of my car is 1/2" taller than it should be.
I still have the wheels. I got a great deal on this set of 16" wheels and wanted to try them out. They are pretty light for their size and with the 225/50/16's show up on the speedo exactly the same as my 15' stock wheels. I know they aren't very stealth, but my wife LOVES the way they ride compared to the 15's, so this may just be a compromise. 15's may still be in my future, time will tell.
On another note, I was told by Jason that part of the noise I am hearing in the car is from the 80 duro dogbone. When everyone was talking about vibration I thought they were talking about something you felt, not something you heard? Will wait and see on this one since the noise seems to bug everyone else way more than it bugs me.
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Farfromovin
Torque Addict
Peter:
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
That looks a little tall in front. It'll settle a bit as the mounts compress, but maybe not enough to make it level. My Golf was pretty tall in front too with the same setup. Handled great though. Just couldn't keep the inside rear wheel on the ground with the Shine Race rear bar.
Scott02
Veteran Member
My front isn't quite that high, and the rear on mine looks prob at least a 1/2" lower. I'm in El Paso TX right now (effing work!), or I would take some pics of mine.
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Dyno day changed to SATURDAY November 20, 2010. It will be a Rocketchip event. Dyno Dynamics same as NEDD held at Dents in MA.
205HP on the dyno today. Graph looked exactly like what everyone has been describing after driving.
205HP on the dyno today. Graph looked exactly like what everyone has been describing after driving.
glitdi
Veteran Member
Thant is one hell of a sleeper you got yourself there.
You are going to surprise a lot of mustangs, civics, etc with that beast.
Still works well as a daily?
You are going to surprise a lot of mustangs, civics, etc with that beast.
Still works well as a daily?
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Works just fine as a daily driver. You don't even know anything has changed in the car till you get around 3000 RPM.
Peter ( IDparts ) gave me some 4 cylinder Shine springs to replace the VR6 springs. That should drop the car about 1/2" or so and reduce some of the bounce back on the springs that Jason described. Next... sway bars. Got a lot of suggestions for building boost and ideas for getting rid of some smoke, but first to take care of some maintenance. Change out the Break in oil a transmission oil. Get a compression test. Swap out the sprints and fix a leaky gasket.
Peter ( IDparts ) gave me some 4 cylinder Shine springs to replace the VR6 springs. That should drop the car about 1/2" or so and reduce some of the bounce back on the springs that Jason described. Next... sway bars. Got a lot of suggestions for building boost and ideas for getting rid of some smoke, but first to take care of some maintenance. Change out the Break in oil a transmission oil. Get a compression test. Swap out the sprints and fix a leaky gasket.
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
man I would've sworn that thing would have put down more than 205.. What did it do for torque numbers?
Whitbread
Vendor , w/Business number
205 is a good baseline . With that much unburnt fuel going out the tailpipe, there's definitely another 20-30hp easy left in that combo. Was that with the injectors I sent you or your stage 4's?
. With that much unburnt fuel going out the tailpipe, there's definitely another 20-30hp easy left in that combo. Was that with the injectors I sent you or your stage 4's?ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
As posted above it was a little more than I expected based on driving my wife's Mini which weighs about the same and puts out over 175 HP. I suspect the reason i underestimated the max HP on the jetta is that my MAX hp band is smaller than hers and the twin turbo on the mini starts pulling sooner so it feels like it has a little more power over a broader range.
Torque was 270
the second to the lowest of the day. I will post the sheet and some more pictures when I get a chance later today. I've got your stuff from my ride back so PM me with a good time to swing by with your goodies.That was with the stage 4's, we had a few unexpected issues that prevented us from getting the new Nick's in. Wouldn't that be cool if bigger Nicks smoked less205 is a good baseline
It is smoking about 1/3 of what it did before, obvious answer is that compression is improving so tuning out the smoke is a moving target. Jeff needs a compression test before we try another tune. I talked to Chris (MrChill) and he said the ratio on the pistons should be 17:1 to 17.5 to one.
Tank before the trip 39 MPG Boston and Back about 42 MPG. For legal reasons I am not going to say how fast I was going or how I've been driving the car in order to help get the rings seated in, but lets just say the MPG #'s look pretty good all things considered. Hoping to go for a mileage run next spring.
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Scott02
Veteran Member
Yep kinda just what it feels like when in the car. Hopefully you can get that thing spooling up sooner to get a little bit more drive-ability down low.
ChippedNotBroken
Veteran Member
Since I was expecting about 185 I am pleased with the 205 as a baseline. Your numbers are great I'm wondering how many issues cropped up getting there and how you resolved them?
There were several issues related to getting the tune right. Having one of the last BEW's, my car has an unusual software that confused things for my tuner. The first issue was simply turning off the CEL & codes related to removal of the EGR solenoids. Then there was the issue of keeping power up while reducing smoke mostly at the top end. Now it appears the big bottle neck has been the stock TIP & other air inlet parts. A larger intake is now in place & I'm waiting on a refined tune to take advantage of it. Oh, in hot weather my SMIC seems to limit the top end as well. That is far more evident on a dyno than on the road at speed.