03 Golf worth fixing (fuel injector pump leaking)?

[domboy]

Hi all. I haven't posted in awhile, but I would be interested in some feedback. I've had an 03 Golf TDI 5spd 4dr since 2006 and it's been a great car. It's got about 275k miles on it at this point. I've replaced plenty of things over the years, but now I'm in a bit of a conundrum. About 6 years ago the original fuel pump failed and I had it replaced with a rebuilt one which is now leaking (was probably a bad choice, dunno). The local shop that I've been taking it to for some years now took a look at it, and recommended replacing the pump with a new one, plus the fuel lines between it and the filter as they are cracking. It's been dripping fuel on the coolant hose right under it and deterorating and needs to be replaced as well. They're asking about $3k for all that, parts and labor. I'm just wondering if you all think it's worth continuing to fix it. I still love this car, but I'm trying to be reasonable about it. As far as I can tell it's in decent shape, no rust that I am aware of. It has some interior issues due to age, plus the door latches are starting to get stuck sometimes. The the ABS controller has also apparantly failed which I haven't had fixed yet. It's just not an easy car to replace due to TDIs no longer being sold in the US. I'd always thought maybe I'd replace it with a sportwagon one day, but now those aren't being sold either! I guess I waited too long, so I keep thinking maybe I should just continue to fix it, but I know sometime I'll reach a point where it's not worth it anymore, and starting to wonder if this is it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You're in the MKIV Forum so your post will be responded to by MKIV fans, who will think you should keep the car. I'm one of them. In the past 14 years I've bought 3 new TDIs to replace my MKIV Wagon. Two of the three are sold, and I'm still driving my MKIV. The third, a '15 Golf Sportwagen, mostly sits. So for me no expense is too great if it allows me to keep the car running well.

Look at it this way. If you buy a used Jetta Sportwagen (those are around) you'd probably pay $10-12K for a good one. You'd either be out that cash or have payments. 10,000 for 3 years will cost about $300/month. If you replace the Injection and ABS pumps you'll probably spend about what you'd spend in a year of payments. And (at least folks here would think) you'll have a better car.

That's my .02.

 

[JETaah]

I think that is grossly overpriced. You can get your pump resealed if that is all that is wrong with it but at that mileage it would not hurt to have a pro look at it and get whatever needs replacing replaced. New pumps are probably not really available anymore unless there are some that someone stashed. Rebuilding by DFIS is as good as new...really. They are a Bosch authorized shop in Oregon and their work is second to none. In my experience a fully rebuilt pump from them is right around the $1000 mark...and often time less. They charge what it takes to bring the pump into like-new condition with a warranty, not a flat rate worst case scenario price. I will PM the info to you.

 

[Metal Man]

You have to love the car and you say you do. If you didn't you can never feel good about sinking money in it. Strictly on a dollar basis for a eighteen year old car most would say move on. We're not most people.

 

[KrashDH]

I think that is grossly overpriced. You can get your pump resealed if that is all that is wrong with it but at that mileage it would not hurt to have a pro look at it and get whatever needs replacing replaced. New pumps are probably not really available anymore unless there are some that someone stashed. Rebuilding by DFIS is as good as new...really. They are a Bosch authorized shop in Oregon and their work is second to none. In my experience a fully rebuilt pump from them is right around the $1000 mark...and often time less. They charge what it takes to bring the pump into like-new condition with a warranty, not a flat rate worst case scenario price. I will PM the info to you.

I came in here to say this as well.
They must be charging you for their lunch breaks as well. I'd say it's under a days worth of work easily for a competent shop + parts.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I agree the quote he got is high, but it's not surprising. I hear similar quotes frequently. But as others have pointed out, there are less expensive ways. Getting the pump tested and re-sealed is a good idea.

 

[Rrusse11]

You need to find another shop. Not only does DFIS do good work, but get in touch with burn_your_money here;

SOLD Freshly Rebuilt Giles Injection Pump

EDIT BOTH SOLD I have a credit for 2 rebuilt injection pumps by Giles (Performance Diesel Injection) in Markham that I am selling for $850 CAD ~$700 USD each. Retail price is $1000 so you are saving $150. The pumps come with full warranty and are shipped directly from Giles. All prices are...

forums.tdiclub.com

Giles is legendary.

 

[JETaah]

Another thing regarding the ABS pump controller...New pumps controllers are somewhere near $1000 if I remember correctly. Used ones are abundant on Ebay but you have to zero in on the correct one for your car that matches or supersedes the number on the unit in your car, not just the year and model of your car. In my experience they are not a high-failure rate part. If you are getting a pump and controller unit then get one from a non-salt belt state. Salt can be hard on the hard hydraulic line-to-aluminum pump body thread unions.

 

[domboy]

Thank you all very much for taking the time to reply! I really appreciate all the advice!

I was doing some looking around myself at parts prices and such was starting to get the feeling their quote was on the high end. I've had a couple not so-stellar experiences with some of the other shops in town that work on VWs and TDIs, and got a recommendation for Import Performance. They've done a lot better job and so far have been a good experience. But that $3k is hard to swallow when I do see there are cheaper options. They definitely quoted on the high side for the injector pump ~ $1700. There used to be a list of gurus on this site, but I'm having trouble finding it. If anyone knows of a good (and less expensive) shop in eastern NC I'm all ears.

I really like the price of the rebuilt pump. That's around what I paid for the one I've got not, though I'm not sure where the shop I got to replace it (not the one I've been going to now) before got it. At the time I didn't know where to get one myself. Does 6 years seem short for it to be leaking? I'd hoped it would last a lot longer than that.

I've watch a video on how to replace the pump, and I try to do as much work on my car as I can (regular oil changes, fuel filter, installed the skid plate, replaced a radiator fan once etc), but this might be beyond my skill level, not sure. I don't have the Vag-com software to adjust the timing, so I don't know if it's feasible for me. Looks like I could get a cable and the software for $100 now though.

I am considering the resealing option, as it seems like it might be worth trying first. It seems to run fine once it's running, it's just started taking longer to catch when starting, and sometimes when it does it coughs a bit before smoothing out. I expect it's having to partially re-prime the pump or something along those lines. $20 for a kit, plus $20 for the triangle socket tool (and might need some hex bits) seems worth trying. I'm not sure which seal is leaking so I'm going to ask that when I pick it up (or see if I can figure out myself). I found a video that shows how to replace the two main ones, and I might be able to pull that off, though if I don't get it exactly lined up it sounds like I'd still need to get the timing adjusted. So I'd again either need to but the software/cable or take it back to the shop for this part.

I think I can replace the fuel lines between the pump and the filter myself if it's really needed. Probably could replace the radiator hose as well (I think it's this one, but I'd have to look again to be sure).

And yes, I still do love my car. I mostly don't like the price quoted. Thank you all for the confirmation that I'm not completely crazy to want to keep it running.

 

[BobnOH]

I like the idea of a new or DFIS rebuild. Can't comment on the ABS. But the pump should cost about $1000, Roughly 5 hours labor @100 = $1500 total.
Please do find a qualified mechanic to do that. If the timing belt kit is due, add another $800.
Quite a hit to the wallet, but beats a $3000 used car with a whole new set of issues.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I do wonder who rebuilt your pump, who did they send it out to? With a package of new IP seals, a couple of sockets, and a few hours, you do the job yourself. Can you tell us where the fuel is leaking from? As you stand in front of the car facing the wind shield, is the leak at the top of the pump is it leaking the big nut between the hard lines are connected? The more info we have, the more helpful we can be. There are pumps that last 300k miles, and pumps that last much less than that, sometimes you just never know. Are there any Guru's any where near him?

 

[Mozambiquer]

I did the seals on the top of my pump. It was a fairly easy job, but vag-com is required to set the injector quantity. That one you linked to though, is a knockoff. I would definitely recommend getting one from Ross-Tech, which is actually only $200 and it comes with the full support of Ross tech and doesn't include viruses.

 

[flashmayo]

Issues your 03 has:
1)Leaking IP
2)Leaking (cracked) input line to the IP
3)ABS controller failure
4)Radiator Hose leaking(?)

1. Clean off the IP real well with a rag, as well as the input and output fittings. Take a photo. Drive for a week, inspect. Take another photo.
The seals between the 3 layers of metal, especially the upper of the 2, are easy to replace. You do need a VCDS, but it will be useful into the future. You can sell it later possibly if you need to. Including the VCDS, you're still under $300 on this one.

2. Replacing the input line to the IP is well within your capabilities if you have changed your oil and filter. Not sure what the cost of the line is, but get a good one. $50 is a guess

3. ?? ABS? Bah! Unneeded. Save up your pennies and change it out when you want to, or look into rebuilding it.

4. Cake. $20 - $30

The consensus on this forums is that TDIs are expensive to own if you have to pay someone to work on them. Also that the MkIV, especially the 03s with manual gearbox, are the absolute best of the TDIs. You've managed for 16 years already and now that the market value of the car is low, the premise applies even more. With some research on this site, you can do so many of the jobs yourself. Find a "guru" nearby and support them when you need help.

What I've found is that if I keep up on the little things, then the deferred maintenance items don't stack up and result in a $3K repair estimate. The only thing that ever makes me want to replace mine is boredom, and the thought that this thing could run for another 15 years and I will have messed out on trying the newer, shinier vehicles.

If you like the car and it still runs well, keep it.

 

[domboy]

I have no idea who rebuilt the pump (I believe he actually got a rebuild one and sent my core back to his supplier). I took at look at the pump with the car running, after wiping it off to make sure I could see any leaking. It's definitely leaking on the lower main seal on both sides, and it looks like the upper seal may have slower leak on the front side (away from the windshield). To me it does seem reasonable to give that a try first.

I do plan on getting VCDS. I had wanted to before, but it used to be so much more expensive.

Yeah, I'm not too concerned about the ABS light; I might get around to it one day. I just wanted to list it so you all would get a good idea of the condition of the car. And yeah, this forum has been a very helpful resource! I'm really glad I asked about this instead of writing it off. Again, I really appreciate everyone's feedback. This community is great!

 

[domboy]

I did the seals on the top of my pump. It was a fairly easy job, but vag-com is required to set the injector quantity. That one you linked to though, is a knockoff. I would definitely recommend getting one from Ross-Tech, which is actually only $200 and it comes with the full support of Ross tech and doesn't include viruses.

Thank you!! I wasn't sure I had found the real thing, but for some reason when I was looking the other day I didn't find the link you gave. Much appreciated!!

 

[BobnOH]

If it's just that one thing, try to borrow a VCDS. Now if you do your own stuff and keep the car for a while, VCDS is a must have.
Well here's hopeing the seal kit does trick for you!

 

[domboy]

Just a note: I finally found the Trusted TDI mechanics thread. The irony is both the ones listed for Wilmington NC are the ones I tried first. One of them didn't replace all the rollers during a timing belt job (Dave's) and the other (German Speed Merchants) really went downhill since the first time I took the car to them, and now seems to be closed. Hence why I switched to Import Performance.

 

[fatmobile]

Tighten the bolts and see if the leak goes away.
At least check that they are tight,... rebuilds yaknow.
Probably have to get the triangle socket since the top is leaking too.

5/16" clear line from the filter to the pump.
1/4" will work.

 

[Gothmolly]

VW TDI's peaked with the MkIV. Save it if you can.

 

[mittzlepick]

Got 5 pumps in the basement i can put it in fot 5 hundy t&m

 

[domboy]

Tighten the bolts and see if the leak goes away.
At least check that they are tight,... rebuilds yaknow.
Probably have to get the triangle socket since the top is leaking too.

5/16" clear line from the filter to the pump.
1/4" will work.

First, thank you for posting the line sizes! I was just looking to see what I'd need to prime the pump, so that's super helpful! Great idea on checking the bolt tightness. I'm going to try to do that today once I find or buy the T30 torx bit (I can't remember if I have one already).

Edit: no luck on just tightening the bolts (at least not the torx/star ones, don't have the triangle socket yet).

 

[domboy]

ok I took the plunge and did the reseal. I took a screenshot in VCSD of Basic Settings datablock 000 per the timing belt guide. I may need help understanding if I need adjustments now that I have it back together and thank God it started right up. Based on an the sound of it idling I can't tell a difference, and I made made marks on it with a paint marker before and opened the bottom part to try to line it up as close as I could to where it was before.

The guide seems to focus on data block 2, and it seems to be about the same before and after... I have seen it briefly switch to 35 and then back to 34... I don't recall if it did that prior to working on it.

Before:

New item by Premixed Bones

photos.app.goo.gl

After:

New item by Premixed Bones

photos.app.goo.gl

(Forum isn't currently letting me imbed the image, I'll try to fix that)

I'm new to VCSD and timing adjusting so I may misunderstanding something, so I'm sorry if this should be obvious, or if I'm looking at the wrong thing in the program. Thanks!

 

[Tdijarhead]

You see that little block that says TDI Timing in the lower right corner? Click on it then select you vehicle from the drop down menu. 1J 1999> now what do you see on the graph? That’s your timing. You’ll see two yellow lines intersecting or a straight yellow line (advanced) or no yellow lines (retarded)

 

[domboy]

Ah ok thanks. It looks like I have intersecting yellow lines:

New item by Premixed Bones

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[JETaah]

You have to choose a different graph from the menu. This one is for ALH cars before production date of 04/99 as it says at the top of the title bar.
You need ALH >04/99. Probably the next one down on the pull-down menu
From there the car will start best when those cross hairs are at the green line ... i.e. GROUP 000, field 2 will be at 70 and field 9 will be 100. You need to rotate the pump's hub forward in the slots (clockwise facing the pulley side of the pump).

 

[Rrusse11]

domboy,
Yes you do, however at 33 you're retarded. Lol, not you, the engine. You need to advance the fuel pump. Lots of how-tos
available here & Youtube et al. Idparts has a video. In a nutshell, the pulley driving the pump has 3 locking bolts in slots around the circumference of the aforesaid pulley. The pump itself has a large central nut that you need to adjust minutely to change the timing. Loosen bolts, do NOT remove, large wrench on center, tap gently, in your case, towards front of the car. Start vehicle, open VCDS and recheck the graph. Dead nutz on is that center blue line. Many have the timing advanced, above the blue line. It'll probably take a number of attempts to get it right, a very little movement on that center nut makes a BIG difference. Be prepared for a frustrating exercise. Yes, it's worth it .

 

[Tdijarhead]

Intersecting lines are good. Double check that you have the correct engine selected. I do see alh listed but 1999 or before. You want after 1999> . If the yellow lines are in the same place you will need to advance your timing. There are several how to’s on this site and you tube. Anywhere above the middle line is good, I like to get mine close to the upper line.

The lower line where your car is right now is more power, more smoke, less mpg, next to the upper line is a little less power, less smoke and better mpg’s. Some like to set it in the middle.

 

[domboy]

You have to choose a different graph from the menu. This one is for ALH cars before production date of 04/99 as it says at the top of the title bar.
You need ALH >04/99. Probably the next one down on the pull-down menu
From there the car will start best when those cross hairs are at the green line ... i.e. GROUP 000, field 2 will be at 70 and field 9 will be 100. You need to rotate the pump's hub forward in the slots (clockwise facing the pulley side of the pump).

Intersecting lines are good. Double check that you have the correct engine selected. I do see alh listed but 1999 or before. You want after 1999> . If the yellow lines are in the same place you will need to advance your timing. There are several how to’s on this site and you tube. Anywhere above the middle line is good, I like to get mine close to the upper line.

The lower line where your car is right now is more power, more smoke, less mpg, next to the upper line is a little less power, less smoke and better mpg’s. Some like to set it in the middle.

Whoops!! You're both right, I picked the wrong one... I saw the 03/1999 and thought it was an odd way to write 1999-03 engines, I didn't realize the next line was the correct one. And yes, I'd like less smoke better mpgs...

New item by Premixed Bones

photos.app.goo.gl

domboy,
Yes you do, however at 33 you're retarded. Lol, not you, the engine. You need to advance the fuel pump. Lots of how-tos
available here & Youtube et al. Idparts has a video. In a nutshell, the pulley driving the pump has 3 locking bolts in slots around the circumference of the aforesaid pulley. The pump itself has a large central nut that you need to adjust minutely to change the timing. Loosen bolts, do NOT remove, large wrench on center, tap gently, in your case, towards front of the car. Start vehicle, open VCDS and recheck the graph. Dead nutz on is that center blue line. Many have the timing advanced, above the blue line. It'll probably take a number of attempts to get it right, a very little movement on that center nut makes a BIG difference. Be prepared for a frustrating exercise. Yes, it's worth it .

Hahaha!! Yes, it's definitely retarded lol.

Thank you for the explanation. I've done some reading up on the how-tos section on this topic, I think I understand how to do it. Hoping to do that this weekend weather permitting.

 

[domboy]

I have one more questions on adjusting the timing.

This guide says to tighten the three bolts on the sprocket "to 18ft‑lb (25 Nm)", implying I need a torque wrench. But the ID Parts video on the timing adjustment recommends using a very small rachet due to the limited space available. Should I just tighten them as best I can with a small rachet or do you guys recommend using a torque wrench? The last one I had was definitely not small. Thanks!

 

[BobnOH]

Well you shouldn't need a torque wrench. What I do for stuff not accessible is clamp my torque wrench in a vise, simulate length, feel pressure for xx ft/lbs then do it with the tool that reaches. Don't want to mislead you, but they're not the most critical bolts on the car. You do want to make sure they're not the factory pulley bolts, as those are one time use.