Car died on the road and won't start again.

Wonky · Feb 4, 2011

On the way home from work tonight, cruising down the highway at 70mph. My newly acquired (had for 2 weeks today) Jetta....died. For no reason that I can tell. Lost all power (not electric power) and I have no idea why.
It turns over fine, so I don't think its the starter (that wouldn't kill it cruising down the road I think)
For about 2 1/2 hours it had power for the flashers and turning it over, so I don't think it is the battery/alternator.
It has half a tank of fuel, and since it's winter, the diesel shouldn't gel from the additives the gas station puts in.
It won't start from popping the clutch either.
So, I have no idea whats going on...me and a buddy had to push it about 2 miles to the nearest parking lot...and there she sits. I'm not mechanically inclined, so any help or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.
-Rob

Joe_Meehan · Feb 4, 2011

First thing I would consider is the anti-shudder valve. Normally it's function is to shut the engine down when you turn the key so it does not sputter when turned off. It can stick off and if it does, it will not start until it is freed up. I have had my 2002 NB since it was new and it has stuck three times. Now that I know where it is, I just need to lift the hood and give a nudge and it will pop open.

Maybe someone with a 99 Jetta can give you a specific instructions.

You also can search for anti-shudder valve and you may find the specific answer right away.

I will try to get a photo of it (2002NB version) today.

Search for "Anti Shudder Valve" I believe the first on the list will have several pages of replies. That is the one you will want to read. Good photos and instructions.

Good Luck.

rackaracka · Feb 4, 2011

Sounds like you have gelled fuel. Best bet is going to be getting the car into a warm garage if possible. If not, you might get lucky if you are able to remove the fuel filter and replace it with a fresh one filled with 911. Then, use a vacuum pump to prime the fuel injection pump with the 911. You may also need to bleed the injector lines which involves cranking the engine over with the hard lines loosened at bit (17MM)

Good luck!

ninedee_golf_tdi · Feb 4, 2011

Does the glow plug light come on with the key "on" ?

Mike_Van · Feb 4, 2011

What Joe said.
It is the first thing in this list of things to check.

Successfully cranking/turning over, but not starting does not necessarily mean the battery is OK. I had to replace my batt. earlier this winter (lasted just over 3 yrs) when I was having those symptoms. The engine needs to be turned at a min. number of RPMs for the crank position sensor to even begin to tell the injection pump (IP) to start injecting fuel. A weak battery won't have the 'umph' to turn the starter quickly enough.

Does your car have a clear fuel line leading from the fuel filter (#14) to the IP (#11) If so, do you see large air bubbles (or even mostly air, no fuel) in this line?
If so, you may have an air leak at the plastic Tee fitting on top of the fuel filter or at hose/fuel filter connections.
This could starve the engine of fuel, which would cause the engine to stop.

DieselOx · Feb 4, 2011

I second the fuel gelling. If you only had it 2 weeks, are you sure the previous owner fuelled it recently? Overnight in a warm garage will confirm this. Good luck, no starts are a pain to deal with. Stay away from dealer service shops, at least.

How far is rice lake from madison? One of the best tdi mechanics is there.

Wonky · Feb 4, 2011

Joe_Meehan said:
First thing I would consider is the anti-shudder valve. [/I]

I'll check this in a few min.

Good Luck.

rackaracka said:
Sounds like you have gelled fuel.

I thought in winter gas stations put anti-gel in the fuel?

ninedee_golf_tdi said:
Does the glow plug light come on with the key "on" ?

Yes

Mike_Van said:
Successfully cranking/turning over, but not starting does not necessarily mean the battery is OK. I had to replace my batt. earlier this winter (lasted just over 3 yrs)
Does your car have a clear fuel line leading from the fuel filter (#14) to the IP (#11) If so, do you see large air bubbles (or even mostly air, no fuel) in this line?
If so, you may have an air leak at the plastic Tee fitting on top of the fuel filter or at hose/fuel filter connections.
This could starve the engine of fuel, which would cause the engine to stop.

If the anti shudder valve isnt it I can try buying a new battery

DieselOx said:
I second the fuel gelling. If you only had it 2 weeks, are you sure the previous owner fuelled it recently? Overnight in a warm garage will confirm this. Good luck, no starts are a pain to deal with. Stay away from dealer service shops, at least.

How far is rice lake from madison? One of the best tdi mechanics is there.

This is the second tank, no I didnt put any anti-gel in it, because I thought the gas stations did in the winter and Rice Lake is...oh 3-4 hours, 233 miles from Madison

Joe_Meehan · Feb 4, 2011

Normally fuel sold in the winter has anti-gel, but if you buy it in the south or if it is left over from the summer, you might need anti-gel.

rackaracka · Feb 4, 2011

Joe_Meehan said:
Normally fuel sold in the winter has anti-gel, but if you buy it in the south or if it is left over from the summer, you might need anti-gel.

I know that Hess in NJ used to sell "Winterized" fuel - which did not need any treatment. I have inquired and they do not have any treatment at two Hess stations I've been using this winter. I'm treating my fuel just to be on the safe side.

Wonky · Feb 4, 2011

Joe_Meehan said:
Normally fuel sold in the winter has anti-gel, but if you buy it in the south or if it is left over from the summer, you might need anti-gel.

I bought it at a local Cenex here in Rice Lake, it's also a truck stop, so i'm assuming it's not old fuel.

I checked the ati-shuddder, wasn't it.

Might be the battery still, and there is a little bit of air in the fuel line that I could see, only visible after I turn it over.

rackaracka · Feb 4, 2011

The battery wouldn't cause the engine to shut off while driving.

If the Anti-Shudder valve didn't close on its own and shut the engine down, it either lost fuel or the timing is out of whack. If it were my car, I'd pull the timing cover off and look at then tensioner to assure that the pointer is still aligned with the slot. Then I'd rotate the engine until I see the IP Pin hole in the slot(this requires a small mechanic bendy mirror and a good flashlight). Then I'd look for the timing mark on the flywheel. If those are lined up, I'd pop the vacuum pump off and see if the camshaft slot is aligned with the top of the cylinder head. If all looks well, you've got gelled fuel. If something is mis-aligned, you've got bigger troubles.

There is a possibility that you have a flakey Relay 109, but you say the Glow Plug indicator is illuminating...

Wonky · Feb 4, 2011

The glow plug acts like normal, comes on when I turn the key and a few seconds later it goes out. I'll try to replace the fuel filter tomorrow and see where that gets me.

rackaracka · Feb 4, 2011

Don't forget the 911 and also a vacuum pump. You'll need to suck fuel to fill the filter, and then suck fuel / air from the Injection Pump.

Good luck!

redneck_pilot86 · Feb 5, 2011

I had mine do almost the exact same thing, turned out the tensioner on the timing belt had let go. Easy to confirm, just check if the timing belt (passenger side of the engine) is tight.

Wonky · Feb 5, 2011

redneck_pilot86 said:
I had mine do almost the exact same thing, turned out the tensioner on the timing belt had let go. Easy to confirm, just check if the timing belt (passenger side of the engine) is tight.

The car still isn't at my house yet. It still sits in the Wal-Mart parking lot

so I can't check that currently, but I will in the morning when I get it on the dolly to home.

But I don't think it's anything to do with the timing, I had a friend turn it over while I looked at the fuel line, and to me, it looked like there was quite a bit of air bubbles going through the line. So I'm thinking that it has something to do with that.

-Rob

rackaracka · Feb 5, 2011

Rob,
Most likely it is gelled fuel. You can pop the timing belt cover off in the WalMart parking lot. You will need a long flathead screwdriver to release the lower clips on the cover, and it will wiggle out. Take your time so you don't break anything. Use a good flashlight. There are 5 clips that hold it on.

Good luck!

Wonky · Feb 5, 2011

Car is home, check the Timing Belt, it's tight. I replaced the battery and fuel filter, sucked fuel into it with a MightyVac...still nothing. Turns over just the same as it did before, and isn't firing.

I'm still stumped, I'm thinking it might be something to do with the fuel in the tank?

-Rob

2jettasinthedrive · Feb 6, 2011

Did you get a steady stream of fuel from the return line on the pump? It must be clear of air to work. Once the filter is full and the Injector pump is free of air, Put your lines back on and crack an inj line at the injector while cranking.
WATCH YOUR EYES AND HANDS for spraying fuel.
The line should dribble/spray air/fuel. Once the engine starts just let her run for a while and check for leaks.

hgsmith · Feb 6, 2011

You can use the mighty vac on the other side of the injector pump. This will pull all of the air out of the the IP and fill it with fuel. This will be the return line that comes back to your fuel filter. You have air in your system some where.

fossill · Feb 6, 2011

Relay 109?

yvon g · Feb 6, 2011

the very same thing happened to me in my 99.5 tdi jetta last june. cruising at 115kph(about 65mph), the cruise kicked off. tried pushing on the fuel pedal, nothing. started to smell diesel fuel and noticed smoke coming from rear of car. to make a long story short....it was the ecm. had it towed to nearby dealer, they said there was a sh&t load of codes. when they unplugged the two connectors on ecm, one row of pins stayed in the connector.

popamike54 · Feb 6, 2011

I agree with Wonky, if it is a sudden onset issue, it turns over find but just won't crank, jelled fuel not an issue; jumped timing seems like a good suspect.

naturist · Feb 6, 2011

Since it is a '99, relay 109 is a possibility.

Wonky · Feb 6, 2011

When I turn the car over, fuel doesn't squirt out of the fuel line, like it should. So does that mean it's an issue something else, or should I go back to a timing issue?

rackaracka · Feb 7, 2011

If you're not getting fuel then you need to troubleshoot the injection pump. Check the wiring harness connection on the injection pump. Follow the wires down next to the oil filter housing and check that the plug is securely connected.

Have you used a vacuum pump to suck the air out of the injection pump? Loosening a hard line and cranking won't get the air out of the injection pump.

dalchri · Feb 7, 2011

I have had to crack my injection lines a few times to bleed air and neither time have I had spraying fuel. I think the spraying fuel thing is sensitive to how much you loosen the injector fuel line nuts.

So, don't worry if the fuel doesn't spray. Just look for any fuel spraying or non-spraying.

GJettaH · Feb 7, 2011

Put 12v to the relay on top of the injection pump. If it starts it is an issue related to the 109 relay. It is an easy check.

Wonky · Feb 7, 2011

I didn't put the Might-vac on the return line because I'm smart like that. I'll have to try that in the morning, along with the 12v on the relay. Also have to re-check the timing belt for paint marks? Not really sure what the marks are for but someone asked me to check for them.

2jettasinthedrive · Feb 7, 2011

Be Prepared to pump/suck Alot through the return line. It takes time and patience.
When you go out in the morning (hopefully its quiet),open the hood, turn the key to ON, you should hear the fuel solenoid click once.
If not ,then get your jumper wire and put 12v to it. It should Click if it is good.

Aquaticmind · Feb 7, 2011

If you primed the fuel pump by pulling fuel into filter and it won't start. You may need to crack the injectors to let out air. This has been said before, but I was surprised when it happened to me when changing the filter.

Good luck

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