Whats the pro's to Biodiesel?

[UFO]

You see how the world is changing but the US is NOT.. All the clean diesels coming out CANNOT use bio-diesel without violating VWs warranty or disabling emissions equipment. In Spain last summer I drove a Ford Focus Diesel a car that Ford makes and cannot even sell in the U.S. Bio-diesel has the odds stacked against it in the U.S.

Connect the dots. If it is progressing in Europe, it's not the biodiesel, it's got to be something else.

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

That statement is not really true. Last time I made BioDiesel it was made with Methanol which is made from petroleum. Also they are plenty of people being killed for food stock whose prices are now being driven through the roof to supply alternative fuels (Ethanol, Soybean Oil) .. When you are going to make a statement like that get all the facts..

Yes, one should get all the facts.

The idea that Corn ethanol is driving up the cost of corn is just hogwash.

#1. Way less than 10% of corn is used for human consumption.
#2. Nearly 100% of the feestock value of corn is retained in the byproduct of ethanol production (in fact the old revenuers used to figure out who was running moonshine by looking for the fattest cows and pigs at the country fair grounds since the byproduct of ethanol is better feedstock than raw corn)
#3. Just because you used Methanol, does not mean he will.

The above facts do not mean that I am a proponent of corn ethanol, I think there are much more efficient ways to produce ethanol, but it is there it keeps farmers happy and may even help reduce our dependence on canadian oil . As for BD, I did the math on land based production of oil producing crops to meet US BD needs and the Millions of acres needed astonished me - so unless they work out the CO2 sequestration algae bloom solution - I am not hopeful that I will be filling up at my local station any time soon. Personally I am holding out for fuelcells

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

Connect the dots. If it is progressing in Europe, it's not the biodiesel, it's got to be something else.

Funny thing, I believe that the German cars have no problem with BD.

 

[UFO]

Funny thing, I believe that the German cars have no problem with BD.

DPF equipped?

 

[40X40]

Funny thing, I believe that the German cars have no problem with BD.

German cars with DPFs?

BD made from Soy or BD made from Rapeseed(canola)?

Darn details...

Bill

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

German cars with DPFs?

BD made from Soy or BD made from Rapeseed(canola)?

Darn details...

Bill

The last I read ( about 3 years ago ) their primary oil source was Rapeseed.

 

[FollowTheBlackRabbit]

PSST... Methanol is wood alcohol

 

[dbeag]

Feverwilly, No disrespect ment, just one mans facts / benefit.

Have been making B100 for 3 years now. “$1.50 per gallon” ? My currant cost breakdown is $.053 per gallon, as high as $1.08 in the summer of 08. In MT dino is currently around $2.69 per gallon. Currently my process takes one full hour, after learning curve, per 55 gallon batch, that’s from waste oil pickup to 55 gallon finished product. $2.69 - $.053 = $2.06 savings per gallon x 55 gallons = $118.80 per hour, not a bad wage! Even if it took 2 or 3 hours, still not bad. Cost of reactor, 3 pumps and misc. equipment = $6327.49. My round trip commute is 180 miles 5 days per week. VW gets 43 mpg dino, 49 mpg bio, yep better on bio. My truck gets 16 mpg dino, 14.5 bio, yep a decrease, not sure why that is but it is. I run B100 8 to 9 months of the year in both, break even was 14 months.

YEA BIO!

 

[feverwilly]

$1.50 per gallon.. plus your labor lets say 50 cents per gallon = $2.00 per gallon.

Most experts say you should be changing your oil at 3k intervals. So if you go to Jiffy Lube that is $50.-.

You will need to change your fuel filter more often lets say 2x a year thats 1x more then with straight diesel thats another $80.-

In winter if you live in a cold climate you will have to thin it out with Kero plus by all estimates your engine will need to be rebuilt at 250k instead of 350k but I will leave that out..

You use 10 gallons per week = 480 gallons per year at $2.- per gallon is $960.- you change your oil 2x a year more thats another $100.- and the fuel filter is $80.- that equals $1,140 you spent in labor or cost to use bio diesel.
You take into effect the depreciation on your car along with the mess clothes and equipment you have to buy to make it.. I will leave out the divorce settlement after your wife gets tired of sleeping next to a greasy old french fry and you have lost $$$$$$. Add 2 new pair of jeans and a pair of shoes and you are up to $1,240.-

The cost of using Diesel over a year at $2.60 per gallon (average the past year) = $1248..

WOW YOU SAVED A WHOPPING $8.-.. Get yourself a Whopper combo at McDonalds with the difference..

 

[feverwilly]

PSST... Methanol is wood alcohol

I knew that but I have a friend that gets it from the chemical place and he said it was gas based so I mixed things up.. It must be all the crack I smoked when I was younger.

 

[TDIMeister]

It's readily apparent.

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

$1.50 per gallon.. plus your labor lets say 50 cents per gallon = $2.00 per gallon.

Most experts say you should be changing your oil at 3k intervals. So if you go to Jiffy Lube that is $50.-.

You will need to change your fuel filter more often lets say 2x a year thats 1x more then with straight diesel thats another $80.-

In winter if you live in a cold climate you will have to thin it out with Kero plus by all estimates your engine will need to be rebuilt at 250k instead of 350k but I will leave that out..

You use 10 gallons per week = 480 gallons per year at $2.- per gallon is $960.- you change your oil 2x a year more thats another $100.- and the fuel filter is $80.- that equals $1,140 you spent in labor or cost to use bio diesel.
You take into effect the depreciation on your car along with the mess clothes and equipment you have to buy to make it.. I will leave out the divorce settlement after your wife gets tired of sleeping next to a greasy old french fry and you have lost $$$$$$. Add 2 new pair of jeans and a pair of shoes and you are up to $1,240.-

The cost of using Diesel over a year at $2.60 per gallon (average the past year) = $1248..

WOW YOU SAVED A WHOPPING $8.-.. Get yourself a Whopper combo at McDonalds with the difference..

3000 mile oil changes @ Jiffy lube? $80 fuel filter? I think you need to search oil changes and fuel filters here on the site, your spendin WAY too much money on these things.

 

[UFO]

$1.50 per gallon.. plus your labor lets say 50 cents per gallon = $2.00 per gallon. More like $0.60 a gallon.

Most experts say you should be changing your oil at 3k intervals. So if you go to Jiffy Lube that is $50.-. Nonsense. This is not WVO, and NO ONE should go to "Iffy Lube" EVER.

You will need to change your fuel filter more often lets say 2x a year thats 1x more then with straight diesel thats another $80.- Wrong. I've never had to change fuel filters more than once. Filter your own biodiesel and the change intervals are less.

In winter if you live in a cold climate you will have to thin it out with Kero plus by all estimates your engine will need to be rebuilt at 250k instead of 350k but I will leave that out.. Diesel works just fine, just add some anti-gel. I usually only have to go to B50. If you want to make such outlandish claims on engine reliability, back it up otherwise you are just foaming at the mouth.

You use 10 gallons per week = 480 gallons per year at $2.- per gallon is $960.- you change your oil 2x a year more thats another $100.- and the fuel filter is $80.- that equals $1,140 you spent in labor or cost to use bio diesel.
You take into effect the depreciation on your car along with the mess clothes and equipment you have to buy to make it.. I will leave out the divorce settlement after your wife gets tired of sleeping next to a greasy old french fry and you have lost $$$$$$. Add 2 new pair of jeans and a pair of shoes and you are up to $1,240.- Get a grip.

The cost of using Diesel over a year at $2.60 per gallon (average the past year) = $1248..

WOW YOU SAVED A WHOPPING $8.-.. Get yourself a Whopper combo at McDonalds with the difference..

I thought the subject of the thread was the "pros" of biodiesel, not the "cons" as in spreading lies.

 

[dobeonguard]

Why can't Ford sell their Ford Focus TDci in America? Or is it that they do not want to. All of the American automotive manufactures are behind the curve. The American manufactures DID NOT think the American public would want to drive a small economy car. How do you account for the VW TDI market, Hyundai, Kia, Honda and lets not forget the Cushman err I mean Smart car. The Americans are always behind the Europeans, they are progressive and proactive not reactive. I am very sympathetic to the American auto worker, but their Union destroyed themselves. You cannot compete while driving wages up to insane numbers while constantly demanding more when competition can do it for less. They continued building gas guzzlers in a market that was heading down hill, they never learned their lesson from the previous energy crisis. They should have been allowed to fail.

There is so much BS that goes around it is sickening. We hear so much that we are trying to relieve our dependence on foreign oil. This unfortunately, is not possible. Sorry, people die everyday in this world from every commodity, whether it is oil, natural gas, food supplies and water!!! Oh, what about Lithium for those Hybrids? Does anyone know where the largest supply of Lithium in the world lies? http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/bolivia-is-the-saudi-arabia-of-lithium

The oil industry has their hands so deep into the pants of our government it could be a porno film. They will continue with oil until the wells are dry, there will be more wars because this is what they want. This drives prices up, they don't call it a war machine for nothing. Bio-diesel is fantastic to a point. There needs to be huge investments into its potential, especially exploring the harvesting of bio-diesel from something other than a food source, like algae. I believe a diesel engine is one of the most flexible and forgiving automotive engines in the world, it was invented by a German after all. Not all German ideas are great, whoever thought of "Rechts vor Links" should be shot. The pros to bio-diesel are endless, the cons can be avoided with forethought. There simply isn't enough data to say the engine will last longer or shorter with bio-diesel. What was the contributing factor as to why the engine died? Engines died before the widespread use of bio-diesel.

The argument that feverwilly tried to make didn't make sense from a logical perspective. If I am making bio-diesel myself I am not billing myself for labor, we are assuming the individual has sufficient free time to do the labor themselves without interfering in personal or professional obligations. This is the flawed capitalist ideology that time is money, it should be the fruits of ones labor is money. I performed a task that took a reasonable amount of time to create something that I did not have to pay for.

 

[dbeag]

Fever your calculations are funny Im lau gh ing all the way to the ba nk !

 

[feverwilly]

The point I was making is Bio Diesel is not cost effective the PROS are in case somebody gets on their high horse is..

Turning waste into something useful
Cleaner emissions
Using less fossil fuels
It makes you hungry driving behind someone burning bio diesel

AT PRESENT

the pros do not outweigh the cons in my humble opinion. They are some on the bio kick that have it as their personal agenda I approach is from a return on investment perspective and it is not worth it at present that could change if Diesel goes up to $4.00 per gallon anytime soon.

 

[40X40]

The point I was making is Bio Diesel is not cost effective the PROS are in case somebody gets on their high horse is..

Turning waste into something useful
Cleaner emissions
Using less fossil fuels
It makes you hungry driving behind someone burning bio diesel

AT PRESENT

the pros do not outweigh the cons in my humble opinion. They are some on the bio kick that have it as their personal agenda I approach is from a return on investment perspective and it is not worth it at present that could change if Diesel goes up to $4.00 per gallon anytime soon.

Your conclusions are based on flawed assumptions and inacurate cost quotes.

Bill

 

[dobeonguard]

Seriously, just leave this guy alone. He must be receiving a pension or retirement that is either in whole or part deriving its dividends from Big Good Ole Boy Oil.

Anyone can see his mathematical calculations are not even close. WVO usually free, methanol here at a local drag strip was $2.60 a gallon. I believe you need roughly 1qt for each gallon produced plus lye. I can't remember the cost breakdown of lye is. SO lets just say $.75 a gallon, plus your own labor. Initial setup costs of a small operation should be about $100 to produce small quantities. Cost of diesel here is about $2.60 a gallon. That is a savings of about $1.85 per gallon. You will break even in about 2,500 miles. This is my figures, for how I will produce it in small quantities.

Oil changes are at a normal interval. Maybe having to replace a fuel filter or so after all of the growth is cleaned out of the tank and fuel lines by the bio-diesel. Feverwilly, I would say you are being "violated" if you are paying $80 for a filter.... If I am making bio-diesel, I would simply wear old gruby clothes that my wife doesn't let me be seen with in public anymore so no cost there. I don't think my wife will mind me spending a little more time doing car stuff because she will be spending the savings at the mall.

 

[feverwilly]

Actually my quotes are very close and I used and have made BioDiesel.
My car also runs on WVO but I know the cost and maintenance and work involved in BioDiesel and WVO. You also don't mention storage of Bio-diesel which is illegal in many places along with the risks of storing methanol and the fumes produced with making bio diesel. When some neighbor kid or family pet dies tell me how much you saved then?
Even getting in an accident with 5 gallons of WVO on your way back from your oil run can risk you heavy fines with the EPA. All you with your rose colored glasses want to give this illusion that making and using Bio-Diesel is as simple as driving up to Charlie Changs filling up a bucket mixing in some drano and meth and wala soap and fuel.
You don't mention that you are violating the laws when it comes to paying road tax. Not only are you a bunch of liars but tax thiefs on top of it.
You don't mention the Risks, you don't estimate the true costs.

 

[40X40]

Actually my quotes are very close and I used and have made BioDiesel.
My car also runs on WVO but I know the cost and maintenance and work involved in BioDiesel and WVO. You also don't mention storage of Bio-diesel which is illegal in many places along with the risks of storing methanol and the fumes produced with making bio diesel. When some neighbor kid or family pet dies tell me how much you saved then?
Even getting in an accident with 5 gallons of WVO on your way back from your oil run can risk you heavy fines with the EPA. All you white boys with your rose colored glasses want to give this illusion that making and using Bio-Diesel is as simple as driving up to Charlie Changs filling up a bucket mixing in some drano and meth and wala soap and fuel.
You don't mention that you are violating the laws when it comes to paying road tax. Not only are you a bunch of liars but tax thiefs on top of it.
You don't mention the Risks, you don't estimate the true costs. It's so you can brag among your lilly white friends about how you got over on the man by getting free fuel at KFC. You know you are lying and you know you are a sham when you promote this solution without being honest.

First off, Biodiesel is recognized and approved as a motor fuel by the EPA, while WVO is NOT.
Being in an accident while having some Biodiesel on board is not going to result in a fine by the EPA, but neither will having WVO on board.
As far as making things sound simpler than they really are, aren't you confusing running WVO with running Bio?? Many folks that run Bio make it in a COOP environment instead of in the garage and they DO pay their fuel tax.... It is an involved process to correctly make quality Bio, no-one here has claimed otherwise.
Your cost estimates are off by so much that it is obvious that you are just trying to make a point that the facts don't support, so you bend the facts.

Bill

 

[itchytweed]

... snip ...

Even getting in an accident with 5 gallons of WVO on your way back from your oil run can risk you heavy fines with the EPA. All you white boys with your rose colored glasses want to give this illusion that making and using Bio-Diesel is as simple as driving up to Charlie Changs filling up a bucket mixing in some drano and meth and wala soap and fuel.

IIRC from my California Class A / Haz Mat drivers test, one of the questions on the test was "How much gasoline has to be spilled in a delivery to warrant calling the EPA?" The correct answer was anything greater than none. The gasoline or diesel in your car is more dangerous than WVO. Technically, I can have a container of virgin vegetable oil and toss it out and now it is waste vegetable oil. BTW, please cite your reference to the possible forfeitures to the EPA for carrying WVO, thank you.

BTW, if you are getting soap and fuel from your biodiesel operation, no one in their right mind would buy it, let alone use it. Proper process yields only glycerol and FAME. Soap means water or bad processing. Either way, crap fuel. One nice thing about biodiesel, it makes a great handcleaner, when made and properly pH neutralized.

 

[dobeonguard]

Its obvious he is just looking for a fight.

In Ohio you do not need a permit or inspection to store less than 60gal of fuel in one location.

Anyone attempting to make a correlation between people who make their own bio-diesel and people that cook meth must have smoked entirely too much meth. I did not graduate with a chemistry degree, but where does the toxic gases come from when mixing methanol, lye and veggie oil.

Honestly, if you want to try and make an argument you should really research it a little. You lost all credibility with your last post, and will likely never regain it. sad.....

Could you imagine all of the citations of soccer moms who purchased a few gallons of Canola oil from the grocery store for a bake sale? ahhh the humanity, that Volvo would go up like the Hindenburg.....

 

[feverwilly]

meth abbreviation for methanol and I don't care if I have creditability with you! I know what I know..

 

[UFO]

Note to self: Don't believe everything you think.

 

[Shawnz]

I run B99. I buy it 300ish gallons at a time and take it home in 100ish gallon lots. As far as I can tell reading local fire code I'm legal to store it at the house. Road taxes, paid.

Including the cost of the pump, a bio-safe filler hose and my filter setup etc I have paid more than I would have had I stayed with petro-diesel. My car dropped about 6 MPG when I switched to B99.

Would I do it over again? You bet.

I buy fuel that is made from waste oil from local restaurants. The bio is also produced locally. The money stays here. The engine runs quieter and the exhaust smells better. The fuel itself is pretty consistently cheaper than petro at the pump. In bulk it's usually at least .20/gallon cheaper than petro, usually more.

If Petro diesel gets dirt cheap again I'll probably blend.

 

[adamant628]

$1.50 per gallon.. plus your labor lets say 50 cents per gallon = $2.00 per gallon.

Most experts say you should be changing your oil at 3k intervals. So if you go to Jiffy Lube that is $50.-.

You will need to change your fuel filter more often lets say 2x a year thats 1x more then with straight diesel thats another $80.-

In winter if you live in a cold climate you will have to thin it out with Kero plus by all estimates your engine will need to be rebuilt at 250k instead of 350k but I will leave that out..

You use 10 gallons per week = 480 gallons per year at $2.- per gallon is $960.- you change your oil 2x a year more thats another $100.- and the fuel filter is $80.- that equals $1,140 you spent in labor or cost to use bio diesel.
You take into effect the depreciation on your car along with the mess clothes and equipment you have to buy to make it.. I will leave out the divorce settlement after your wife gets tired of sleeping next to a greasy old french fry and you have lost $$$$$$. Add 2 new pair of jeans and a pair of shoes and you are up to $1,240.-

The cost of using Diesel over a year at $2.60 per gallon (average the past year) = $1248..

WOW YOU SAVED A WHOPPING $8.-.. Get yourself a Whopper combo at McDonalds with the difference..

I think that the most glaring mistake here is that the Whopper is sold at Burger King. Thank you.

 

[lupin..the..3rd]

Well I'm considering using Biodiesel and before I did I wanted to hear some of the pro's and cons to using Biodiesel. Does Biodiesel get better gas mileage?

Clean, Domestic, Renewable. 'nuff said.

I'd buy B100 even if it was twice the price of regular diesel. The benefits to the economy and the environment are huge. Too bad B100 isn't available in my area. Closest thing I have near by is B20.

 

[RC]

I'd buy B100 even if it was twice the price of regular diesel.

Been there, wasn't exactly happy about it but that was just how it was.

Too bad B100 isn't available in my area.

They don't call that peninsula to the east of you "The Land of Pleasant Living" for nothing. Gotta feel good about our fuel $ staying so close to home.

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

Bio-diesel is the basically the same as home heating oil and most homes in the NE that heat with "Diesel #1" keep 600 gallon tanks in their basements!

I REALLY don't think having 1 or 2 hundred gallons of BD can be a problem. As far as comparing GAS to Diesel - Double-Duh, drop a shot glass of gas on the driveway and drop a match on it, poof! Now take a glass of diesel and stick a lit match into it, nothing, the match goes out.

 

[dobeonguard]

I agree chipped. But I believe the Ohio Fire Marshal makes a distinction between the two. The laws were actually very vague the way I interpreted them, I contacted the State Fire Marshal and asked about bio-diesel storage and was told there are no specific regulations. There were distinctions between a fixed tank for use, for storage and whether it was above ground or below. The regulations were vague, even by the admission of the Fire Marshal. I could have a F250 PowerStroke with a 100gal tank in the bed too. Who knows...