What's the magic behind high MPG with 0.216 injectors?

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I originally installed the fuel tank because I was running bio blends in my car. That ship has sailed: Bio is no longer readily available and I have diesels that don't like it in any quantity. So now it's just a convenience. And a reason for my sons to visit.

Hey red, is that with your 6-speed? Curious because revs are about the same as my 02J with the .7 5th

 

[Andyinchville1]

Meanwhile I've lost ~ 2 MPG changing my 200 deg F t-stat for the factory 190 deg F stat. Last tank was 46.9 MPG, all freeway, mixed 70-80MPH.

Hi

Where did you get the 200 degree f thermostat?

If that is good for a 2 mpg increase why go back to a 190 degree thermostat?

Thanks

Andrew

 

[red16vdub]

I originally installed the fuel tank because I was running bio blends in my car. That ship has sailed: Bio is no longer readily available and I have diesels that don't like it in any quantity. So now it's just a convenience. And a reason for my sons to visit.

Hey red, is that with your 6-speed? Curious because revs are about the same as my 02J with the .7 5th

IBW that’s with an o2j stock gearing. I put my stock fifth gear back on because I had vibration after 3500 rpm with an aftermarket unit.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

That makes more sense, although I can't say that I get above 3500 RPM in 5th that often.

 

[kennethsime]

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• red16vdub
• Oct 13, 2021

Fuel

I bet you could push that to at least 840.

 

[03TDICommuter]

Hi

Where did you get the 200 degree f thermostat?

If that is good for a 2 mpg increase why go back to a 190 degree thermostat?

Thanks

Andrew

Came with the car due to the previous owner changing it out for unknown reasons. No mfg name or temp value written on it. I replaced it because I was running 203 - 206.6 on the freeway all the time, and I also have a slightly leaking HG (foam in the ball) so I didn't know if the increased temp was from air pockets or the t-stat. Recommendations on this website said to use the OEM t-stat as they're more stable at 190'ish, so that's what I did.

This current tank is doing much better MPG wise, so I'm not going to change anything for a few tanks to get an average. I don't remember anything that would have caused the last tank to give me the worst MPG ever though.

All that said, it has been written here that going to a 200 deg F t-stat does give you a bump in MPG.

 

[03TDICommuter]

I'm pretty much settled on getting 0.205 injectors. I don't plan on going to a VNT-17 or an 11mm pump.

Question though - since I have a malone stage 1, will I need a tune modification for the 0.205 injectors?
Also, has anyone used injectors rebuilt by DAP/Frans?

 

[Andyinchville1]

I'm pretty much settled on getting 0.205 injectors. I don't plan on going to a VNT-17 or an 11mm pump.

Question though - since I have a malone stage 1, will I need a tune modification for the 0.205 injectors?
Also, has anyone used injectors rebuilt by DAP/Frans?

Hi

I have the modifications in my signature and have never retuned from my initial stage 1 Malone tune.

After my stage 1 Malone tune , my first two modifications ( at the same time due to injection pump giving out) were .205 nozzles and 11 mm pump.

I did not retune after that and even with the other modifications followed after that , I still have not retuned.

I would be interested in hearing your opinions / thoughts, if you could simply add .205 injectors without retune ... drive it for a bit and see how it feels / behaves.

Then get a proper retune and drive it and see how it feels / behaves afterwards.

I have read what retuning does but it would be interesting to hear your results and have another data point / opinion.

Andrew

 

[red16vdub]

That makes more sense, although I can't say that I get above 3500 RPM in 5th that often.

I’m looking at changing to .681 gear hopefully soon.

 

[red16vdub]

I bet you could push that to at least 840.

Ooh easily, when my fuel light come on, I can do another 75 miles or so before the MFA reads 15-20 miles to empty. I’ve actually ran it till the fuel gage needle, was slightly below the last red indicator. I wanted to check the accuracy of the MFA.

 

[kennethsime]

I'm pretty much settled on getting 0.205 injectors. I don't plan on going to a VNT-17 or an 11mm pump.

Question though - since I have a malone stage 1, will I need a tune modification for the 0.205 injectors?
Also, has anyone used injectors rebuilt by DAP/Frans?

I would be interested in hearing your opinions / thoughts, if you could simply add .205 injectors without retune ... drive it for a bit and see how it feels / behaves.

Then get a proper retune and drive it and see how it feels / behaves afterwards.

I have read what retuning does but it would be interesting to hear your results and have another data point / opinion.

Malone would definitely say you should re-tune anytime you make any modifications - they can help you get the most out of your tune that way.

But like Andy said, it might just be fine.

 

[jmodge]

I'm pretty much settled on getting 0.205 injectors. I don't plan on going to a VNT-17 or an 11mm pump.

Question though - since I have a malone stage 1, will I need a tune modification for the 0.205 injectors?
Also, has anyone used injectors rebuilt by DAP/Frans?

I put .205's in Donna's without a retune, runs great and economically. It's been that way for quite a while

 

[Nuje]

I’m looking at changing to .681 gear hopefully soon.

Let me if / when / where you can find a .681 5th; i've looked a number of times and only come up with .658 and .622 in anything taller than .700

 

[03TDICommuter]

Meanwhile I've lost ~ 2 MPG changing my 200 deg F t-stat for the factory 190 deg F stat. Last tank was 46.9 MPG, all freeway, mixed 70-80MPH.

Last tank was 48.3 MPG, not bad but it likely would have been 50 with the hotter thermostat.

Still deciding where to get injectors from. I'm was ready to get a set from Frans as the price is good, but the spotty communication even to an email of "how do I order these / pay you" has me gun shy using him. TuneMyEuro looks to have the next best prices. Anyone know who they use for injector rebuilding?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'd just buy nozzles in the brand you want and find a Bosch shop near you to install and test them on your bodies. Easier and less expensive.

 

[PakProtector]

I'd just buy nozzles in the brand you want and find a Bosch shop near you to install and test them on your bodies. Easier and less expensive.

We have Industrial Injection here in Detroit... With an 11mm pump, I think DLC520's will be quite adequate. It is too bad they won't touch the PD injectors.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[red16vdub]

Let me if / when / where you can find a .681 5th; i've looked a number of times and only come up with .658 and .622 in anything taller than .700

The .681 gear I’m get from a buddy. I think the gear is NLA.

 

[Zak99b5]

I'd just buy nozzles in the brand you want and find a Bosch shop near you to install and test them on your bodies. Easier and less expensive.

Is it not really possible just to replace the nozzles yourself and diesel on? I mean, do they need to be balanced and all that? I realize it would be best practice, but if we are talking about replacing old nozzles with say 250k on them, how much more of an improvement is getting the injectors balanced over just replacing with new?

 

[BobnOH]

Is it not really possible just to replace the nozzles yourself and diesel on? I mean, do they need to be balanced and all that? I realize it would be best practice, but if we are talking about replacing old nozzles with say 250k on them, how much more of an improvement is getting the injectors balanced over just replacing with new?

Asked and discussed many times. No definitive answer I could ascertain. Even with all new injectors, some recommend the balance.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Is it not really possible just to replace the nozzles yourself and diesel on? I mean, do they need to be balanced and all that? I realize it would be best practice, but if we are talking about replacing old nozzles with say 250k on them, how much more of an improvement is getting the injectors balanced over just replacing with new?

Yes, you can replace them yourself, but if one or more of the nozzles has a issue (low pressure, streaming, internally dirty), things won't improve with the new ones. If you're not willing to have them tested and fixed if necessary you may be better off doing nothing and take your chances.

Every time I've had nozzles replaced on cars that have had them installed for over 100K miles have had a problem

 

[03TDICommuter]

Every time I've had nozzles replaced on cars that have had them installed for over 100K miles have had a problem

IBW, not sure what you mean here. That nozzles basically show driveability/MPG issues when over 100K miles? Or the replacing exercise has problems when done on injectors with over 100K miles?

I'd just buy nozzles in the brand you want and find a Bosch shop near you to install and test them on your bodies. Easier and less expensive.

I looked on Google maps and it looks like there is an diesel injector servicing place nearby. I'll stop by sometime and see if they can work on VE nozzles.

Question for anyone - how critical is it to get the 2 stages set on our injectors? I called DFIS in OR and they only set one pressure unless it's a bosch branded nozzle.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

My installer always tests the existing nozzles before replacing. Low flow, streaming, poor spray, incorrect pop pressure...something is always wrong.

I just had the stock nozzles in my '99.5 Golf replaced with new d, also stock size. The nozzles in the car were flowing poorly, spray patterns were uneven. I did it because the turbo seems slow to spool on that car, and it never smoked, even with RC3. Now accelerator and turbo response is much better.

 

[03TDICommuter]

My installer always tests the existing nozzles before replacing. Low flow, streaming, poor spray, incorrect pop pressure...something is always wrong.

I just had the stock nozzles in my '99.5 Golf replaced with new d, also stock size. The nozzles in the car were flowing poorly, spray patterns were uneven. I did it because the turbo seems slow to spool on that car, and it never smoked, even with RC3. Now accelerator and turbo response is much better.

Ah, thanks! I'm hoping for the same experience. It sure feels like it's not getting enough fuel. Tip in the throttle and it feels okay, but anything WOT and it's weak. Boost comes on fine, but for the amount of pressure generated, it sure doesn't feel like it has power from the seat of my pants. The previous owner did reseal the IP, I wonder if the IQ is too high? Still with 238K on the original nozzles (I think), I'm going to get them replaced.

 

[PakProtector]

Whilst noodling on the topic of 2nd stage settings and power/fuel economy, it seems the smaller pilot injection setting would be useful for FE too. The goal being to inject the fuel dose as early as is possible( for a given start of injection timing ).

I am not sure exactly how these beasties work, but it seems at least having them all open at the same pressure would be useful. And that that pressure be something close to spec. Recall a few posts of 1019 installs showing a significant retarding of the timing( on pro set up injector nozzle installs ).

Which leads me to an IQ question: does IQ effect max power, or is it mainly effecting lower to mid rpm fueling differences? So to say, lower IQ is going to increase fueling rate at 2000 rpm, but at 4000 rpm it is not having such a difference?
cheers,
Douglas

 

[Judson]

FYI I lost about 2.5 mpg going from stock to Longbeaches. The latter are 17 versus 15” and about 24 lbs each compared to about 16 lbs each. Yes I have .216s and an 11mm pump. I think the magic is in the wheels and the 10mm pump. My car originally was an automatic and even after. It crapped out and I had it swapped to a 5-speed (and now a 6-speed and lots of mods) I have never gotten anywhere even close to IBW.

 

[red16vdub]

FYI I lost about 2.5 mpg going from stock to Longbeaches. The latter are 17 versus 15” and about 24 lbs each compared to about 16 lbs each. Yes I have .216s and an 11mm pump. I think the magic is in the wheels and the 10mm pump. My car originally was an automatic and even after. It crapped out and I had it swapped to a 5-speed (and now a 6-speed and lots of mods) I have never gotten anywhere even close to IBW.

 

[red16vdub]

I’ve had 18” aristos and bbs rc’s for 10 plus years now. I run these wheels religiously winter/summer. The magic is actually in the tuning, and 98% freeway travel. Jeff / chill knows the secret for the Alh.

 

[Gothmolly]

I hit 24 psi on my VNT15 all the time, but then again, the actuator rod doesn't move.