Was Not Battery and Not Starter....was Ignition Switch or maybe more?

[alluneedizshagbaby]

OK guys...here are the results:

Well was not the Battery. I bought a brand new 825 Crank Amp Battery (could not use my wife's cause of Post Orientation) and made no difference. I suspected it might be Battery because of what 'n1das' said and because of what I saw: very low electrolytes and Trunk Button not activating.

And it was not the Starter based upon the TEst I performed curtousy of 'Just Some Guy' (Thank you!!). I jumped the Starter Solenoid to the Positive Terminal while my wife Turned the Ignition and whalla!! Heard the Purr!! Won't start without me Jumping Solenoid to Pos Terminal.

So as a couple of you guys metioned, looks like the Ignition Switch is 'TOAST' and I did identify (curteousy of 'brownnugen') the N75 that is clicking continuously when the key is turned over. I don't know if N75 is the Ignition Switch or a Relay associated with the IGnition Switch.

The thing I'm still puzzled about is why can't I still open the Trunk with the Trunk Button even when the engine is running?

Is the Trunk Relay/Solenoid tied into the Ignition Switch somehow?

So so far it looks like the Ignition Switch but I'm still mystified by the Trunk Solenoid/Relay still not functioning.

Any clues? If everything ties into the Ignition Switch then is that something I can fix without special tools? Approx cost to replace? Do I need to special order or must get from Dealer or can I easily find?

In the mean time, I'll be reviewing the Ignition system in my Bentley Manual. (Engine 1Z) I don't know whether it's OBD D or OBD II.

 

[Just Some Guy]

It takes a special puller to get part of the steering column apart.

I recommend letting a dealer or VW repair shop do it, since you don't want to mess anything up in that area of the car.

They should charge you no more than 1.5 hours labor, plus the price of the switch.

 

[brownnugen]

If it is the ignition switch, the actual part is something like $20, but I paid about $200 for the labor part. You may be able to do it yourself, I don't know your level of capability. Check out this thread on the problems I had. My ignition switch had failed for the second time within 9 months so I went a different route and used a push button starter that circumvented the notoriously bad ignition switches in our cars. Works like a charm.

Having said that, I don't know if this is the solution for you, but it was the solution that worked for me.
-Nick

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

Thanks all of you guys for your insight.

'brownnugen' : I read your previous Thread. Curious to know what kind of Starter Button you specifically used to bypas the Ignition Switch.

Based upon what you and 'Just Some Guy' said it looks like the Alarm Control Module could also be the culprit. I know that the Trunk Control System is linked to the Alarm System. The only reason I know this (or think so) is that I installed my REmote Keyless Entry / Alarm system (VW Factory) about 5 years ago and I remember connecting it to the Electrical for the Trunk Control system.

Anyway, I'm going to try to follow 'Just Some Guy''s instructions posted on May 13 & 14. This looks fairly challenging to say the least.

 

[mjbach]

We don't have the vagcom yet but have a question for those of you that do. Would a vagcom help diagnose this guy's problem isgnition/trunk solenoid/starter solenoid problem?

 

[Just Some Guy]

Wait!!!!

My instructions were partially wrong.

It must be all the crack I smoke.

I managed to give the wrong electrical terminals for the test.

Is your car a Passat?

I'll issue a modification here on this thread in the morning.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

Yes, my Car is a Passatt 96 (1Z engine). I have not dug into the Electrical guts yet, just took the knee bar out to expose everything.

Without having taken my Meter into the Electrical yet, I am really convinced that the Alarm Control Module is either Bad or has a wire disconnect rather than the Ignition Switch because my Remote Keyless Entry / Alarm system does not function at all and as stated before the Trunk Control system does not function. To me this all points to the Alarm system.

I don't know how you guys make a living by giving away this FREE advice. My advice would be to operate this site like a Porn site and charge members a Monthly Service Fee, maybe real low like 50 cents/month. But with all the Members out there, somebody could really make a living out of providing Mechanic Advice over this site!!!

I'm still happy to give my thanks to all that have thrown their advice at me with at least a real good frosty mug locally brewed around this area. Just swing by Denver and look me up: alluneedizshagbaby@hotmail.com

 

[Just Some Guy]

Looks like I was about half right the first time.

Pin 4 in the 10 wire connector is out to the starter, and pin 5 of the 6 pin connector is FROM the ignition switch.

Put your test light on pin 5 of the 6 wire connector and bump the key to START. You should get a light any time the key is in the START position on this wire. If so, you have a good ignition switch. If not, replace the switch.

Assuming you get a light there, now move your test light to pin 4 of the 10 wire connector. You should also get a light there at the same time the key is in the START position. If not, replace the alarm system control module, OR splice in a jumper wire between the two terminals; pin 4 of the 10 wire connector and pin 5 of the 6 wire.

Be sure to test your repair BEFORE you put anything back together.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

Thanks 'Just Some Guy'. I will see what I find and get back with you tonight or tommorrow.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

Question for 'Just Some Guy':

Is it important I use a Test Light for measuring Current Draw?

My Fluke 75 has a Ampmeter with a Max 630 mA Terminal and a Max 15 Amp Terminal.

Would either one of these Ampmeter measurements suffice for detecting the Current Flow when I bump the key to START?

 

[Just Some Guy]

Just use the volt meter instead of amps. You'll probably pop your fuse if you try using it the way you describe.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

TO: 'Just Some Guy'

I looked for the Alarm Control Module where you indicated it would be located and found it there and found the 10-Pin Connector Port and the 6-Pin Connector Port, but noticed no cables are connected to it. The reason behind this is that I when I installed the REmote/Keyless Entry system, I basically installed a whole new Alarm Control Module that is designed for Keyless Entry. I never removed the old Alarm Control Module. Luckily the Keyless Entry Alarm Control Module I installed had a description on the module for each wire that terminates on the Module. These are the Wires I checked on the Module:

Chassis Ground

12-Volt Power (Continuous)

Power from Key Start (connected to Ignition Switch)

With my Voltmeter connected to Chassis Ground and the 'Power from Key STart' wire, I turned the Key over and the my Voltmeter read 12 volts only when I had the Key turned over. Therefore the Ignition Switch is OK.

I then connected my Voltmeter to Chassis Ground and the '12-Volt Power (Continuous)' wire. I read no Voltage Difference between the 2 wires. With my Fluke set for Ohmeter and Audio Beep for Direct Connect indication, the Fluke indicates that these 2 wires are Shorted together. The Alarm Control Module is not really 12-Volt DC powered and possibly damaged because Ground and 12-Volt DC Terminals are basically Shorted together.

With the Ohmeter setting, I traced the 12-Volt Wire all the way back to the Main 12-Volt Power Supply Wire that Feeds into the entire Fuse/Relay Panel. It comes into the Dash area through the Firewall from the Engine area. It is a very heavy gauge wire, completely RED wire. Before it feeds into the Fuse/Relay Panel, there is an 80-Amp Fuse in Series with the RED wire. FRom the 80-Amp Fuse to the Fuse/Relay panel the Wire is now RED/WHITE into the Fuse/Relay panel. The 80-Amp Fuse is anchored and located way up and in the back of the underside of the Upper Dash area.

Basically the Main 12-Volt Power Supply (completely RED wire) that goes through the Fire Wall and into the Engine Area is also now Tied to Ground for some reason. I could not Trace this wire in the Engine Area.

'Just Some Guy': Are you able to identify this RED wire (Main 12-Volt DC Power Supply) in the Engine Area. Where does it Terminate in the Engine Area?

Obviously what I have discovered is really scaring the Hell out of me now.

 

[Just Some Guy]

I'll have to check this in the morning...our computer's power supply smoked today and when we got it back this afternoon I forgot to check to see what you were doing....

 

[Just Some Guy]

....and now you know why us stupid mechanics hate all the stupid junk aftermarket crap you people shove in your cars....

I don't know what to tell you. There's more than one red wire.

I would have to lay hands on it to even begin....

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

I will perform a Test tonight to determine whether or not the the Keyless Entry Alarm Control Module is Smoked or Not. I was testing it last night. It appears that it is Smoke, but I did not perform the Test that would truly determine whether or not its is Smoked. I will let you know the results.

When I directly connect the Ignition Switch Lead to the Starter Lead (normally they both terminate on the Keyless Entry ACM) and apply Power directly from the the POS Batt Terminal to the Constant Power Terminal on the ACM and have all other leads terminating where they are supposed to on the ACM, the Car starts up fine, but I still notice this funny series of Clicking Noises behind the Console Display. Nothing associated with the ACM seems to functiona at all: No Trunk Release, No Lock Activate, No Unlock Activate; nothing related to the ACM seems to work right. But the Left & Right Turn Signals work Fine. Air Blower works Fine, Radio works Fine.

The Test I plan to do tonight is to connect all Leads onto the ACM except for the Constant Power Lead (12 VDC) since I'm not getting any Power from that Lead anyway. I will directly connect Power from the POS Batt Terminal and then see if the Car starts. If so and all Lock/UnLock works and TRunk works then the ACM is good; otherwise the ACM is BAd.

The REAL Problem I see is with the Power Distribution Wiring for everything. I really think there is something seriously wrong there. I will open a new Thread to identify and trace some major Power Feeds because I think something is not right there.

I will close out this Thread with the results of the ACM.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

One thing I did not metion in my last posting:
Regardless of the Keyless Entry ACM being connected to anything or not, the Car always starts with the Ignition Switch Lead directly connected to the Starter Lead.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

Since I've got some kind major, complex Electrical Problem with my '96 TDI Passatt, I will move that Thread to General Maintenance: its not a TDI 101 topic.

 

[alluneedizshagbaby]

Turns out the Alarm Control Module is Smoked, but replacing it will not remedy the main problem. The Constant Power Lead is somehow Shorted to Ground. At this point, I am trying to find where this Short is located. I continuing that thread on General Maintenance.