Towing a VW TDI
- Thread starter COCOLOCO
- Start date
jasonTDI
TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
I think he is using a dollie. His concern is the steering lock I'd bet. Don't want something to break.
NewbeeMC9
Veteran Member
I have a hitchplate on mine and tow it, So I second what JoeTDI said. Even though it is a 5-speed, you have to stop and run the engine evry so often, I don't recall what to do and the mileage requirement(500 miles
) is but usually my trips are shorter than the requirement so i have to look it up.
) is but usually my trips are shorter than the requirement so i have to look it up.
Powder Hound
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Oct 25, 1999
- Location
- Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
- TDI
- '00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
Why, pray tell? It isn't like you are going to be starving any bearings of oil or anything, is it?NewbeeMC9 said:
NewbeeMC9
Veteran Member
Dunno the mechs behind it, that is just what it says in the owners manual. I don't recall it being too big of an issue and I would look it up if i pulled for a fairly long distance.
Check your manual and see what it says.
Check your manual and see what it says.
MayorDJQ
Top Post Dawg
I can't see why you'd need to run the engine occasionally for a 5 spd. Manual transmissions are self/splash lubricated. As long as you remember to put it in neutral, there shouldn't be any problems.
ScorpionBoy
Veteran Member
don't you put the front end on the dolly and then just go?
wny_pat
Top Post Dawg
"Manual transmissions are self/splash lubricated."
Not all of them are! Many need to be ran as NewbeeMC9 and TDIJoe said.
Not all of them are! Many need to be ran as NewbeeMC9 and TDIJoe said.
ScorpionBoy
Veteran Member
i am still confused. why would the transmission need lubrication if only the back wheels are on the ground.
wny_pat
Top Post Dawg
You are talking tow dolly and we are talking towing 4 down with a towbar pulling the tdi. Like you see behind a motorhome. Towing 4 down is much simpler than tow dollys. you can pull tow dollys easly in tight places such as gas stations. If you get in a bind, you can easly unhook a vehicle being towed with a towbar in less than a minute. With a tow dolly you need to unstrap both tires and the process can take up to 10 minutes while everyone is getting upset because you have things blocked.
MayorDJQ
Top Post Dawg
An example?wny_pat said:
wny_pat
Top Post Dawg
http://www.towingworld.com/DinghyGuide08.pdf
Sorry, my quote function is not showing up on my screen. There are several manufacturers who recommend stopping every so many hundred miles and running the engine. I do not remember which ones they are. If the Dinghy Guide does not mention them, you can find the by searching at http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/31.cfm (the RV.net.com Dinghy towing forum. I believe Suzuki is one of them.
icecap
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2007
- Location
- Chilliwack & Mission BC
- TDI
- 2006.5 Jetta TDI 5Spd Black Anthracite Pkg 1
I believe the reasoning is that the transmission (standard) is only properly splash lubricated when the engine is running in nuetral since if the vehicle is coasting in nuetral with the engine off only the transmission output and mainshaft are turning where as the transmission input gear driven by the engine drives the countershaft which is usually the lower shaft and runs immersed in oil providing the splash lubrication.wny_pat said:
http://www.towingworld.com/DinghyGuide08.pdf
Sorry, my quote function is not showing up on my screen. There are several manufacturers who recommend stopping every so many hundred miles and running the engine. I do not remember which ones they are. If the Dinghy Guide does not mention them, you can find the by searching at http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/31.cfm (the RV.net.com Dinghy towing forum. I believe Suzuki is one of them.
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mrGutWrench
Top Post Dawg
__. Assuming that you mean "towing 4-down", the best way is to use your "valet" key. Put it in the ignition lock and turn the lock so that the steering is unlocked. Then use your remote key to lock the doors. If the key is turned too far, the Daytime Running Lights will be on -- you don't want this so be sure that the key is only turned to the "first click". Also, assure that the ignition is not turned on (also taken care of by "first click"). On first-click, no electrical parts will be energized so there's no need to worry about fuses. Of course, items (like parking lights) that can be switched on without the key on should be off (unless you have a reason to want them on).COCOLOCO said:
__. Of course, the parking brake must be off (ever see a pair of "flatspotted" tires?) and the transmission in neutral. I'd also use a "bra" to stop road debris thrown up by the towing vehicle from damaging the front of the car; also, use a windshield cover which can be affixed to the wiper spindles and the upper part of the windshield.
__. I've often seen advice to make up a check-list to assure that all the correct steps to secure the tow bar are taken and the car is ready to be towed. I think that's good advice, it's a fairly involved process and you want to make sure that it's done right.
NewbeeMC9
Veteran Member
I believe it is what Icecap said, oiler is on driven side(engine side) not drive side(output side)
wny_pat
Top Post Dawg
The Suzuki Samurai, they want the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in second. Transmission does not get enough splash in neutral. And they they still want you to stop every couple hours or so and run the engine.
ScorpionBoy
Veteran Member
10.4 good buddywny_pat said:
MayorDJQ
Top Post Dawg
Does the Samarai has some oddball setup? If the transfer case is in neutral, the transmission won't spin. The transfer case is post-transmission and pre-drive shafts. Meaning, it disonnects the drive shafts from the drive train. If you put the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in 1st gear, you won't move.
amafrank
Well-known member
As an experienced manual transmission mechanic I've got a few ideas here that might lend some useful info to the mix. I've not worked on the Volks box but manuals are very similar in most ways.
For one thing as another noted the manual box doesn't normally have an oiling system or pump in production cars. Our Indy cars had a 3 stage pump with one pressure and 2 scavenge stages. Road cars don't see the temps or pressures of 800+ horsepower though and shouldn't need such a setup. The gears and shafting do need oil however and with a drip or splash feed system they get it by having the layshaft (countershaft) cluster spinning in the sump and throwing oil throughout the interior. The layshaft is direct geared to the input shaft from the engine and when the engine is turning the layshaft is too. Engine running, gearbox oiling.
When you have the shifter in the neutral position and drive the wheels by towing you are turning the output shaft but not the layshaft. The gears from 1-5 (or 6 if its there) are directly linked to the layshaft as well and are not turning. The clutches that lock the output shaft to the gears turn as long as the output shaft is turning but are not connected to the gears unless you select one with the shift lever. The output shaft is captured by the input shaft through a bearing at its end though free to rotate independantly.
Now what does all this mean to the unsuspecting RV driver towing a manual transmission car. It means that unless your output shaft is in the pool of oil in the transmission there is no real source of oil for the trannys internal parts to be lubed with. The output gears are riding on bearings on the output shaft but are not turning while the output shaft is. This means the shaft is turning inside those bearings with no oil to cool and lube them and also the bearing at the end of the output shaft is also uncooled and lubed. In some makes of tranny the bearings are bronze and in others needle bearings. In any case there will be some wear despite the fact that you aren't putting any real load through the gears. Will this wear be significant???? Hard to say for sure. Lots of RV'ers pull their cars all over the world with little in the way of ill effect. On the other hand unlubed bearings are not a good thing if things are turning. Wear especially in the input/output shaft bearing will allow slop and relative movement between those two shafts and that allows the gears to move relative to each other on the lay and output shafts. That makes for much more wear on the gears themselves and you will hear the whine as it gets worse.
The most important thing is to consider the manufacturers suggestions because they know whether the oil level is sufficient to keep the whole thing lubed when not driven. Some tranny's will have the oil level high enough to insure coverage and others may have the shaft positions swapped to insure it. Its not a good idea to just fill up the tranny with the idea of keeping oil in contact with all bearings either as too much oil will increase heat and drag in the system and create even more problems.
Good synthetic oils are a big help because they are able to keep lubing in thinner films like that of a non splashed surface. They also don't break down as quickly in the heat so will last longer.
Hope that helps and wish I had one of those moving solid drawings to help describe the system....
Frank
For one thing as another noted the manual box doesn't normally have an oiling system or pump in production cars. Our Indy cars had a 3 stage pump with one pressure and 2 scavenge stages. Road cars don't see the temps or pressures of 800+ horsepower though and shouldn't need such a setup. The gears and shafting do need oil however and with a drip or splash feed system they get it by having the layshaft (countershaft) cluster spinning in the sump and throwing oil throughout the interior. The layshaft is direct geared to the input shaft from the engine and when the engine is turning the layshaft is too. Engine running, gearbox oiling.
When you have the shifter in the neutral position and drive the wheels by towing you are turning the output shaft but not the layshaft. The gears from 1-5 (or 6 if its there) are directly linked to the layshaft as well and are not turning. The clutches that lock the output shaft to the gears turn as long as the output shaft is turning but are not connected to the gears unless you select one with the shift lever. The output shaft is captured by the input shaft through a bearing at its end though free to rotate independantly.
Now what does all this mean to the unsuspecting RV driver towing a manual transmission car. It means that unless your output shaft is in the pool of oil in the transmission there is no real source of oil for the trannys internal parts to be lubed with. The output gears are riding on bearings on the output shaft but are not turning while the output shaft is. This means the shaft is turning inside those bearings with no oil to cool and lube them and also the bearing at the end of the output shaft is also uncooled and lubed. In some makes of tranny the bearings are bronze and in others needle bearings. In any case there will be some wear despite the fact that you aren't putting any real load through the gears. Will this wear be significant???? Hard to say for sure. Lots of RV'ers pull their cars all over the world with little in the way of ill effect. On the other hand unlubed bearings are not a good thing if things are turning. Wear especially in the input/output shaft bearing will allow slop and relative movement between those two shafts and that allows the gears to move relative to each other on the lay and output shafts. That makes for much more wear on the gears themselves and you will hear the whine as it gets worse.
The most important thing is to consider the manufacturers suggestions because they know whether the oil level is sufficient to keep the whole thing lubed when not driven. Some tranny's will have the oil level high enough to insure coverage and others may have the shaft positions swapped to insure it. Its not a good idea to just fill up the tranny with the idea of keeping oil in contact with all bearings either as too much oil will increase heat and drag in the system and create even more problems.
Good synthetic oils are a big help because they are able to keep lubing in thinner films like that of a non splashed surface. They also don't break down as quickly in the heat so will last longer.
Hope that helps and wish I had one of those moving solid drawings to help describe the system....
Frank