TDI & Short Commutes

[paragrunt]

Hello, I'm new to this and have never owned a foreign car before. The Jetta TDI, I believe you all call it the MK6, and it's fuel economy are what attracted me. I'm wondering though, traditionally, diesels and short commutes don't go hand in hand. The car won't get driven much at all as my wife takes mass transit and I have a take home car. So, it's going to go down the street to the grocery store and pick the kid up from football, etc.., short trips (3-5 miles round trip). On the weekends, we like to go drive around. That would be the only time it's going to get driven around a bunch. We live on an island, albeit, it's a big island, but everything is relatively close. A tank of gas in my old guzzling Cherokee lasts me about 2 weeks, I imagine the gas in the TDI will last a month or so.

Did VW do something to these smaller diesels to make this okay? I know that traditionally, the bigger diesels hated short commutes and it was generally bad for the motors. Diesels thrive in abusive stop and go fleet type and long distance. Can you guys please shed some light on this for me? I live in Washington State, so winters are short. Thanks in advance.

 

[hughesjasonk]

Think of it like this. 80 percent of the cars in Europe are diesel...... and they are doing just fine

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[paragrunt]

I was thinking that myself, but there is a HUGE difference between US and Euro diesels in regards to how they are revamped when brought into this country. I had a 2005 Jeep Liberty with the VM Motori 2.8 CRD. I owned it for just over a year before ditching it. The reviews I read on it in Europe and other countries put it as a real ass kicker and a great choice. The EPA got a hold of it here and changed out a bunch of stuff and it was constantly popping EGR Valves, among other issues. Jeep discontinued it halfway through the 2006 model year. So, it didn't even make it two years, production wise. Commutes weren't an issue for me then as I was driving 35 miles one way to work. Now, thankfully, our commute is short. Gas will sit in the tank a month or so. I suppose I could always add some Diesel Power Cetaine in the tank if needed.

I'm just worried about harming the engine on short trips. I'll beat the holy living hell out of it on the weekends though.

Any helpful information is greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

[Psymos]

I was the first to get my TDI and when my wife seen my fuel savings she was so excited that she sold her car and bought a TDI. Both are alh's, mine is manual hers is auto. I do mostly highway driving... long commutes. Where as she is lucky to do 10 miles round trip city style driving.

Well about 2-3 weeks after owner ship she was so confused why she wasn't getting the 600-700 mile tanks that I was getting. Granted, she still gets around ~35ish MPGs (I think). I had to explain to her about the difference between city/highway driving, manual to auto difference, etc.

I really think she could improve her MPGs a bit more if I taught her how to drive better (some hyper milling techniques)

Moral of the story - it's worth it to get a TDI even for short commutes as you will still save some cash. But don't expect 700+ tanks doing the city style driving good luck with whatever choice you make.


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[Lightflyer1]

A Mark 6 will have a dpf and that will be your possible issue. These cars need to do what is called a regen to burn off the soot from the dpf (diesel particulate filter). A regen requires the car to be at operating temp to start and then needs to be driven for approximately 10 minutes for it to complete. It is best to have a long stretch 10 or 20 miles of highway to do this. As long as the regens happen fully you shouldn't have any issues other than they may happen more frequently because of the short trips. My commute was less than 5 miles. Every 2 weeks I would hit the highway for some driving and let it happen. Do some reading/searching on regens for more info. There was a small islanf that VW either wouldn't sell cars to or didn't recommend them for use there IIRC. Only 5 miles long.

 

[WardB]

Conventional wisdom has always (been driving since '64) said any engine needs to reach operating temp every time it's driven.

Owners manuals on several vehicles I've owned say they can 'sludge up' if not fully warmed. I warm my ALH up every time; I warm my 'kick ass' CRD up to operating temp. . . or I walk to the store.

DPF problems sounds logical since the engine has to be hot enough to burn the fuel injected during the exhaust stroke.

YMMV (in fact, it most likely will

 

[paragrunt]

Thanks for the tips. Please keep them coming. I am reading all I can. Is the DPF something that I can change? Also, does anyone in here really wait the 1 year/10k miles before changing their oil? That sounds crazy!

I was reading in these forums that this car does not like to sit at idle. AFAIK, diesels don't mind idling at all, especially in the cold. I don't know a whole lot either, so I could be wrong. Sometimes we have a LONG ferry wait to get on the island and it's cold out, so I figured I could let the car run to keep the heat on.

**Disclaimer** I live on the poor side of the island and I rent......

 

[Lightflyer1]

It can be removed but violates federal law and could make it impossible to pass a state inspection. It won't be cheap either, about $2k or more depending. Search on rawtek or dieseldub. Yes go the full 10k miles. Read up on oil changes too. Many many posts about all of this already.

 

[paragrunt]

Lightflyer1, thanks. I'm reading all I can. I want to get edumacated all I can so I don't ruin this car.

 

[Powder Hound]

... I imagine the gas in the TDI will last a month or so...

Gas in your TDI will last until you get it pumped out and replace it with diesel.

Really, this is just a reminder to change your mindset. Think 'fuel' or 'diesel' as it will help you not make the mistake of putting gasoline in it.

Cheers,

PH

 

[curtludwig]

It sounds an awful lot like you're a prime customer for an electric car. Get a little propane heater to keep in it for those cold waits for the ferry.

If you do go diesel I'd suggest that a trickle charger for the battery wouldn't be a bad idea. Actually with all those short runs a trickle charger wouldn't be a bad on any IC car you might get.

 

[kjclow]

To sum up several of your questions and comments:
The diesel engines in Europe and what we get in the US are pretty much the same animals now. Sure Europe has a lot more engine options, but the 2.0l Common Rail diesel is the same. European and EPA requirements are getting closer and closer.

Sounds like you already waste a lot of fuel waiting on the ferry. This sure won't help your overall mileage. Beating on the engine on the weekends would be a good thing.

My wife has a 15 mile commute each way through some fairly heavy city traffic and is getting low 30 in her Golf. One of her co-teachers lives by us and just bought a new prius (not sure which one) and is already claiming upper 40s to mid 50s for the same commute.

I force myself to have a 7-10 mile commute on rural roads where I typically drive about 50 and have a lifetime average of around 40 in my JSW. Last weekend, we ran up to my daughter's college to watch her dance performance and then drove back. With 250 miles on the tank, about 50 of which were in town, my display showed 43.5 mpg with an average speed of 53 mph. Most of the interstate cruising was with the cruise set at 72.

If you could afford it, you may want two cars. The diesel for the weekends and the electric for the daily grind. Heck, in the PNW, you'd probably get special parking on the ferry and at work because you were so green!

 

[Ski in NC]

Car should be fine if it gets a decent (10-20mile) run on the weekends.

 

[RT1]

Hello, I'm new to this and have never owned a foreign car before. The Jetta TDI, I believe you all call it the MK6, and it's fuel economy are what attracted me. I'm wondering though, traditionally, diesels and short commutes don't go hand in hand. The car won't get driven much at all as my wife takes mass transit and I have a take home car. So, it's going to go down the street to the grocery store and pick the kid up from football, etc.., short trips (3-5 miles round trip). On the weekends, we like to go drive around. That would be the only time it's going to get driven around a bunch. We live on an island, albeit, it's a big island, but everything is relatively close. A tank of gas in my old guzzling Cherokee lasts me about 2 weeks, I imagine the gas in the TDI will last a month or so.

Did VW do something to these smaller diesels to make this okay? I know that traditionally, the bigger diesels hated short commutes and it was generally bad for the motors. Diesels thrive in abusive stop and go fleet type and long distance. Can you guys please shed some light on this for me? I live in Washington State, so winters are short. Thanks in advance.

It wouldn't be my choice. Diesels thrive in long distance and put up with stop and go but they really take a while to heat up to operating temperature. Until they do you'll take a hit in MPG. Keeping all the various exhaust components free of soot takes a heavy foot occasionally and your post reads like there is not a whole lot of highway on the island.

I'm sure it would provide good service for you even under adverse operating conditions if you keep up with the maintenance. They are tough. My personal recommendation is do the maintenance yourself. Too many horror stories of ruination when gasser mechanics try to apply the same skill set to diesels. They are not the same.

One thing you might consider is cabin heat. Small diesels are not noted for providing cabin/defrost in abundance so consider the installation of a coolant heater for the winter. It takes seven miles of highway driving to start moving the needle on my TDI in the winter, which does not translate to anything resembling cabin heat. My wife is not happy with driving in my car in the winter.

 

[CA-Jetta-TDIer]

A note on cabin heat, the US CR Mk5's have an auxilary electric heater that kicks on immediately. You have heat in the car in about 20 seconds. The heater only runs when the thermostat is set to full hot. You can hear the relay click once the selector reaches full hot. I would imagine this feature is continued on the Mk6.

 

[kjclow]

Yes, it was included in the MKVI models.

 

[Lightflyer1]

The Passats as well. The newer CR's also don't take all that long to heat up either. My car gets to 165F in several miles. Between the electric heater and the car warming up quicker, it will burn you out in ten minutes or so. Down to freezing or just below today and the car was warm in 5 minutes or so. Not to mention the toasty electric seats as well. Fuel economy suffered on the trip in to work due to the cold.

What island are you on?

 

[greenskeeper]

My commute has been 4 miles each way for the past 6 years so a tank lasts about 6 weeks. Wintertime I never see movement on the coolant gauge (pegged at "cold"). Still, the TDI hasn't missed a beat.

 

[RainyBeetle]

I live in Washington State, so winters are short. Thanks in advance.

You must be in Western Washington, if you were in Eastern Washington you wouldn't say winters are short.

(Also the "I live on an island" part, but you know.)

 

[curtludwig]

My commute has been 4 miles each way for the past 6 years so a tank lasts about 6 weeks. Wintertime I never see movement on the coolant gauge (pegged at "cold"). Still, the TDI hasn't missed a beat.

I find that interesting because I have cabin heat well within 5 miles (theres a gas station at exactly the 5 mile mark so its easy to keep track of. Need to check where exactly the Ford dealership is but I'd guess its around the 4 mile mark or just short of it, thats where I started having cabin heat Monday morning when it was 5F...

 

[Roishe Cheng]

The Passats as well. The newer CR's also don't take all that long to heat up either. My car gets to 165F in several miles. Between the electric heater and the car warming up quicker, it will burn you out in ten minutes or so. Down to freezing or just below today and the car was warm in 5 minutes or so. Not to mention the toasty electric seats as well. Fuel economy suffered on the trip in to work due to the cold.

What island are you on?

Isn't that aux heater great? I get heat faster than my other gas cars in the morning. At night I set the heater to HI before turning the car off. In the morning I remote start it, let it idle for 10 minutes to get some heat and the frost off the windows. Then it's a 22 mile commute to work, about a 3 mile drive to the highway and the needle is already 3/4 up the the middle.

 

[paragrunt]

You must be in Western Washington, if you were in Eastern Washington you wouldn't say winters are short.

(Also the "I live on an island" part, but you know.)

Yes sir. I'm a transplant, only been here about a year.

 

[greenskeeper]

I find that interesting because I have cabin heat well within 5 miles (theres a gas station at exactly the 5 mile mark so its easy to keep track of. Need to check where exactly the Ford dealership is but I'd guess its around the 4 mile mark or just short of it, thats where I started having cabin heat Monday morning when it was 5F...

I get minimal heat (enough to be able to tell) from the vents around the 3 mile mark or so.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

This topic has been discussed at length. 5 mile commutes are not enough to get the engine up to operating temperature. I would recommend a longer drive (20 miles) once a week to get everything warm and allow a proper exhaust regen.

My commute is 7.5 miles each way and the Passat will just crack 165 degrees during that time.

 

[paragrunt]

I plan on driving it like a raped ape on the weekends. But, when it's cold out, I have always gone out to my car, started it with the hvac on warm and defrost, and gone back in the house. I come out 10 minutes later and it's warm. Especially in my Jeep as it's got an arctic heater.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

You might be disappointed with the amount of heat the TDI puts out just idling. That said, VW does include remote start on the SEL Passats, so maybe it does do some good.

The new TDIs come with a 1kW electric heater in the HVAC system to get things warmed up quickly. I usually have heat within a mile on the Passat and I just get in it and go.

 

[paragrunt]

We got the Jetta. I couldn't afford the payment on the Passat, unfortunately.

 

[Birdman]

I was thinking that myself, but there is a HUGE difference between US and Euro diesels in regards to how they are revamped when brought into this country. I had a 2005 Jeep Liberty with the VM Motori 2.8 CRD. I owned it for just over a year before ditching it. The reviews I read on it in Europe and other countries put it as a real ass kicker and a great choice. The EPA got a hold of it here and changed out a bunch of stuff and it was constantly popping EGR Valves, among other issues. Jeep discontinued it halfway through the 2006 model year. So, it didn't even make it two years, production wise. Commutes weren't an issue for me then as I was driving 35 miles one way to work. Now, thankfully, our commute is short. Gas will sit in the tank a month or so. I suppose I could always add some Diesel Power Cetaine in the tank if needed.

I'm just worried about harming the engine on short trips. I'll beat the holy living hell out of it on the weekends though.

Any helpful information is greatly appreciated, thank you.

I normally have fuel in my tank up to 25 days a month for the last 5 years in the Jetta I have now and have never had a problem. Use power diesel every fill up, most days I only drive 14.5 miles one way mostly city. In the winter to warm up the car fast I pull the bottom center grill and use a silver covered sunshade I found stuffing it up through where I took the grill out and cover the radiator as tight as I can, them reinstall the grill. I also cover the inlet to the intercooler so the engine does not have to burn very cold air to run. I have usable heat in 1.5 miles (the Gage has not moved yet) and in 4 miles real good heat.
I have never worried about short trips I can always do some hard runs a few times a month. Change oil a little sooner and use a good additive and there should be no problems.
I do miss the wesbasco heater that I had in my 01 that was wrecked but as long as I have heated seats and a garage to keep the car in I can do without spending another 1200$ on a new one. When it gets below 0 there is always the coolent heater. IMO people do worry a but to much about short trips, euro country's do have EPA problems just not as bad as ours but they are headed that way.

 

[paragrunt]

Thanks for the tip Birdman. I plan on purchasing some of that diesel additive. Any idea which one to get, where to get volume, and where the best deal to purchase is?