Spinoff with some of these TDI worth it threads...

[c17chief]

Who all picked up their TDI instead of a gasser just for the way it drives or just to have something different, with the mileage simply being a bonus? In otherwords no consideration to if it will purely get them A to B cheaper then the gasser within X amount of miles by the time its said and done.

With so much debate to weather the diesel is worth it or not, I'm curious to see how many people got one just because.

 

[JSWTDIPilot]

I bought the TDI because I wanted to invest in the technology and eventually use bioD. Whether I can use anything higher than B5-B20 in the future on the CR TDIs is up to a future look. Right now, I'm extremely happy with the mileage I get for the long commutes. (130 miles roundtrip)

Plus my wife loves the handling of the VW, so for the compromise, we bought the TDI.

 

[Candymaker]

Same here - got it for what I believe to be a very bright future for diesel technology, and biodiesel (which in my personal opinion has a more exciting future than hybrids, but that is just my personal belief.) It was down to my TDI or a GTI, and while there was a performance and power drop off, it was minimal enough that I dont miss not getting a GTI. I've loved every second of owning it and can't wait for there to be some more options for the DSG equipped models to do tuning and such.

 

[ruking]

For me, the reasons are to an extent intertwined. Yes, I picked a TDI because of the way it drives. On the other hand, I probably would not have paid the extra premium ($246 @ the time) if the TDI did not offer an mpg advantage. It is indeed on almost all levels and measures, a much better fit for our American roads. However, I would not buy a VW with a gasser in it. Indeed if I get any car in the future, my default would be a diesel.

On a theoretical level a percentage of the passenger vehicle fleet more toward 26% would drastically alter the "barrels of oil importation" landscape. For example, what is not to like using 37% LESS fuel?? How much LESS fuel would the country's passenger vehicle fleet use if diesels comprised 26% of the vehicle fleet? The other way to say it is what is not to like about getting 58.3% better fuel mileage? One can do the math on like model 03 VW Jetta (24 vs 38 mpg) This would be from the current 2% that it already is. Another portal would be for oems such as VW to be granted permission to put up to B100 specified products on the market (so called alternative fuels).

Most folks do not know this, but despite the "oil crisis", the US EXPORTS most of the D2 that is refined in this country. Most folks truly do not even know why D2 IS refined in this country? Indeed the refiners get a $1.00 per gal tax CREDIT !!?? They can also charge .50 per gal MORE (rug and pug and D2) to do so.

So while the various regulatory agencies extoll (actually EXTORT) folks to use less, the rules are really set up to use ... more and @ much higher per gal PRICES.

 

[St.Hubbins]

agree with posts #2, 3... although since our other car is a Passat wagon, there would've been more to think about had only the JSW been available. just on a superficial level, there's something about the look of JSW that makes me hesitate in comparison to our fuller-sized wagon. not that the JSW isn't pretty sharp as well...

anyway, everything about the Golf's specs and aesthetics made it a no-brainer.

 

[BillyA]

Also the same, I wanted to support the technology of clean diesel, and I wanted to support another fuel in the passenger car market. I lived in Europe, and it's quite normal. We use diesel trucks at work. And, I am a geologist, the more we diversify the resources we use, the better for conservation (I fully realize that most shipping in the US uses diesel). But, think if we all switch to higher milage cars (still fun to drive though), and if a used 1/3 gas (w/ ethanol), another 1/3 uses plug-in/battery hybrids, and then "us" use 1/3 use high milage diesel cars, then we will are all using less resources. Bring milage up higher, even better. From my experience, most cars (4 cyln. turbos, and good 6 cyln). do great on the highway, but in city my 07 e90 sucks. Even on a bad traffic day, my 09 Jetta TDI did great, so I am going back to the TDI world, and ordered a 2011 Golf TDI. Also, the torque is fun.

 

[richard_rsp]

I traded in my 2.5L 2010 Golf for a JSW TDI because I needed room to sleep in it. (We go to car races. Sleeping in the car helps with the noise significantly). We have a 95 Honda Odyssey with 300k miles that we used to sleep in, however it is getting a bit old for long trips.

I actually went to the dealership looking for a JSW 2.5, however they didnt have one in stock (all they had in a manual was this 6-speed TDI). Although I liked the idea of the mileage and extras of the TDI, it was more than we wanted to spend. After the numbers, (I guess the dealer was ready to move it being a 2010 and all) it worked out to be in our price range, so voila!, we have a JSW TDI that is incredible! Im so glad we didnt get the 2.5 version!

 

[MostroDiesel]

I wanted first and foremost a reasonably good driving experience in a car that allows me to carry extra stuff when needed. Unlike my previous BMW 540i rocket sled, in which it wasn't really even practical to carry rear seat passengers.

Diesel you said? Funny, I heard TORQUE. Me want torque. Fuel economy is a nice benefit, and at the same time there was Cash for Clunkers and tax credits to sweeten the deal.

As for resource use, we diesel fans should bear in mind that it requires roughly 11% more oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. Thus some of the benefit of diesel is mooted, though certainly not all of it.

Biodiesel and ethanol both require heavy inputs of (currently dinosaur-based) energy inputs to raise, refine and transport, so there is no there there. In a biofuel-based world, how much of our food crops would give way to fuel crops, putting futher pressure on worldwide food stocks? Not a good scenario.

 

[JSWTDIPilot]

As for resource use, we diesel fans should bear in mind that it requires roughly 11% more oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. Thus some of the benefit of diesel is mooted, though certainly not all of it.

Biodiesel and ethanol both require heavy inputs of (currently dinosaur-based) energy inputs to raise, refine and transport, so there is no there there. In a biofuel-based world, how much of our food crops would give way to fuel crops, putting futher pressure on worldwide food stocks? Not a good scenario.

You are exactly correct with more oil going into a gallon of diesel and that does offset the economy we gain. Good point!

Biodiesel is a great alternative to oil though as long as you use waste oil and convert it to bio. Yes it does use energy to grow, but now the oil was used in two seperate uses and the plants full benefits were used.

I'm really interesed in the biodiesel that could be made out of switchgrass and/or algae. Now those don't require much outside energy at all other than sun and some harvest power!

 

[herbert68]

For me it was easy. I drove diesel cars in Europe for most of the time. When I arrived here a few years ago I was disappointed by the non-existent and/or overpriced diesel offers in the car market.

I feel right at home in my 2010 Jetta Sedan, MPG, performance and all!

 

[Big_Tb17]

I previously had a Honda Civic coupe. For a while I had been considering switching to something four door, and possibly hatchback. I could never be the one to drive if more than two people were involved because nobody wanted to get in my back seat (assuming they even could). I also have hobbies (fishing, R/C planes, etc.) that made a hatchback desireable.

Though not a priority, I wasn't against paying a little more for something a bit more upscale. However, I didn't need a luxury car, and certainly didn't want to pay a huge amount.

Despite wanting something with a bit more passenger room, I've always liked the convenience of a small car when driving in the city, parking, etc. I didn't want a new car to be too large. I also have gotten used to not having to worry too much about fuel usage when I drove places because I got 36-38 MPG in my Civic, and I didn't want to lose that if possible. Performance isn't a huge issue, but good handling is highly appreciated, and I obviously prefer whatever I get isn't a total dog.

And along came the 2010 Golf TDI. I haven't looked at the actual specs, but I would be surprised if it was much (if any) bigger in outer dimensions than my Civic was (I wouldn't be shocked if it was shorter), yet it has much more passenger room inside (particularly rear seating). While it doesn't have a huge trunk with the seats up, it is a hatchback which eases loading. And it will accomodate plenty for my needs with the seats folded down.

The Golf TDI has the same HP and similar overall performance stats as my Civic, but has much more torque (over 100 Ft. Lbs. more in fact), so in daily driving it feels as quick without requiring a downsift. It handles respectably as well, while still being smoother and more comfortable on Ohio roads (read: choppy, broken, rough, pot-holed roads).

While I realise this is a matter of opinion, I think my Golf wins hands down in the looks department as well. It's just a good looking car.

While it's not all perfect, overall the Golf's interior is a bit nicer and more upscale as well. And while again, it's not all perfect, the Golf has many more comfort and convenience features vs. my Civic.

Was mileage a factor, sure. As you can tell from the above, it was the total package that interested me. I wanted what the car had to offer. The high MPG rating did help me rationalise the purchase somewhat. So, was improving fuel economy the reason for purchasing a new car? No. Do I have any misconceptions that my purchase was somehow financially wise because I'm getting better fuel economy? No. Did I get virtually everything I wanted in a car, while also getting around 10 MPG better than I was before? Absolutely.

 

[firstgermancar]

I see diesels as a very temporary solution. All electric

and/or fuel cell or some other technology will have to be the long term solution (fossile fuel reserves are finite). Until those are brought to market in significant numbers, TDI's make a nice interim alternative.

Since our government is incapable of acting proactively, it assures that we will wait to the latest possible moment to make the switch to that long term solution of a clean and renewable energy source. Sadly, it will likely only occur after untold additional damage comes to our environment.

Good news is that electric motors can also produce insane torque, so those future cars won't have to be boring either!

 

[PaulGiz]

I drive 20k miles per year and was interested in a cleaner car that used less fuel. I am also kind of a car nut and am not ready to drive a video game on wheels -- I like to drive a CAR.

On a whim I dropped into a VW dealership on a snowy Saturday and ended up test driving a JSW TDI.

I was so impressed by the quality of the interior, the solid construction, the light clutch, decent gearshift, good ride, decent handling and amazing comfort I HAD TO HAVE this car.

3 weeks later I picked it up.

So far it's still all love.

P.

 

[ksing44]

I have to admit I was initially drawn to Golf TDI for the mpg and the oddball diesel ownership thing, but then I also fell in love with the way the car drives. In fact for a while I really tried to like the GTI, in part because I was having a hard time finding the TDI configuration I wanted and partly to get the leather interior. When I drove the GTI, however, I felt a little more busy with the shifting and just didn't prefer the boy racer and sound pipe thing.

In the end, I just couldn't give up on finding the TDI I wanted. I found a car in a far away dealer and had it shipped to my home. Now I love driving my TDI. I love the tall gearing of the 6-speed manual transmission and there is something very special about that low rumbling sound of the diesel motor. I believe these are truly special cars.

Just today I received my new tinted LED tail lights!!! Now my precious little TDI will be even more special.

Thought I should add that I also looked at the A3, but there was no manual transmission for the TDI. That was a deal breaker for me. When compared to the Audi, as stated below, the VW TDI is actually a big bargain compared to the Audi A3.

 

[JPNess]

Shoot, I saved money by buying the TDI !

I was originally looking at the A3 TDI since I'd previously owned an A-3. Ended up going with the Golf TDI, so I figure I actually saved about $7K rather than spent more as some of these threads were discussing.

 

[BillyA]

As for resource use, we diesel fans should bear in mind that it requires roughly 11% more oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. Thus some of the benefit of diesel is mooted, though certainly not all of it.

Hi Mostro:

I am not sure how you are calculating this - the refining process of a barrel of oil gives you specific products: gasoline, diesel, etc. In the states, for every barrel of oil refined you get about 19 gallons of gasoline, and 10 gallons of diesel (and a lot of other products, from a 42 gallon barrel, you get ~44 gallons of products). So just by oil refining for gasoline, you make diesel, and in Europe they refine in a different way to get even more diesel, selling extra gasoline to the states. So if diesel fuel is always being produced at a refinery, isn't it wise to use it too as energy source for passenger cars (?) - and it has a higher energy-density compared to gasoline.

I do not understand what you mean by "it takes 11% more oil to make a gallon of diesel". It doesn't, it takes a barrel of oil, which is refined to make different products, with different %'s, as based on refining process, basically, you get what you get. Now it is true more gasoline is produced from a barrel of oil than diesel, but you get the diesel anyways when you refine (and it should be cheaper than gasoline). I have even read the US exports diesel to Europe, while importing gasoline from there...but I have not found real data for that. And, yes all processing uses energy I realize that.

My point is, we have access to a resource here - diesel is created during the refining process, and if we use that resource, we have less to import. But, it all makes greenhouse gases (CO2 out put) - so higher fuel economy the better. While I am not an economic geologist, I do understand C-cycling, and we need true renewable energy sources - even the Navy just contracted a Cali company for a "bunch" of algal based fuels (from plant based oils).

 

[firedwg1]

For me it was easy. I drove diesel cars in Europe for most of the time. When I arrived here a few years ago I was disappointed by the non-existent and/or overpriced diesel offers in the car market.

I feel right at home in my 2010 Jetta Sedan, MPG, performance and all!

+1 like in Europe, I also believe diesel should be an option in all makes and models. So we support the demand for Clean Diesel technology in USA.

 

[mike100]

I'm into the TDI for the unique driveability from the higher torque/lower rev power plant as much as I am for the MPG. I like the fact that you can get the economy without having to fear for your life on the freeway. 6th gear up the steepest grades around here for me.

good resale value and demand make it attractive as well.

 

[jbright]

While fuel economy was a major factor in my decision to buy a TDI last year (I was also considering hybrids and fuel efficient gas models), performance and build quality were just as important, if not more, in convincing me to go with the VW. I'm pretty sure that whatever money I save by using less fuel is offset by the fact that I drive a lot more than I need to solely because it's so enjoyable being behind the wheel of this car. If VW ever decides to market the TDI to a wider demographic they need to stress this aspect of owning a diesel, and not simply the fuel economy.

 

[IFRCFI]

Who all picked up their TDI instead of a gasser just for the way it drives or just to have something different

Me.

It's compelling technology, it drives and handles great, and it's a great looking car.

I absolutely don't care about fuel economy, making it my hobby, whether it lasts 500K or not, VAG-COM, turning my own wrenches, etc. I bought it for fun...no justification needed. I'll trade it when the warranty expires, and look back an determine if it was a good idea, or a bad one.

There's someone on here that constantly harps about cost per mile. Uh...no.

 

[metalplater]

Me.

It's compelling technology, it drives and handles great, and it's a great looking car.

I absolutely don't care about fuel economy, making it my hobby, whether it lasts 500K or not, VAG-COM, turning my own wrenches, etc. I bought it for fun...no justification needed. I'll trade it when the warranty expires, and look back an determine if it was a good idea, or a bad one.

There's someone on here that constantly harps about cost per mile. Uh...no.

I wholeheartedly agree with this (except for the warranty part). I bought it for the fun factor.

 

[tedkidd]

Owned more diesel cars than gas, currently cummins ram and e320cdi, 2011 sw here I 2 weeks. Really like driving 500-700 miles between fills, even if the truck does eat a Benjamin.

Love diesel, so with price inversion i don't run roi calc anymore. For me it's diesel or electric.

 

[Sundowner]

The ONLY reason I bought the JSW was because it's just about the last stick shift wagon left on the market that isn't a dirt cheap econobox. I would not have gone with the TDI engine had the 2.0T gasser engine been available.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I bought IBW because (a) I wanted a small wagon; (b) I've owned diesels on and off since 1978 and like the way they sound and drive; and (c) because I was tired of filling my Audi A4 every 300 miles. I was criticized by some colleagues for taking a "step down" to a Jetta from the Audi, and I did miss some of the Audi's features--at first. But the range was worth it, the fuel economy was a bonus. The rest is history...

 

[ChippedNotBroken]

When I bought my Jetta (the end of 1999) I was looking for a car that got over 30MPG. Most of the car dealers either laughed at me or tried to sell me on "Highway" mileage figures. In the end I went to a VW dealership to look at a TDI. It was FREEZING out. I had always heard that diesels were underpowered and difficult to start in the winter.

Long story short, went out - waited 20 sec for the glow plug to go out (it was around 15 deg F) car started right up. Took it for a test drive, was impressed with the performance (very low expectations) and bought it on the spot.

Later the dual mass Flywheel crapped out my clutch (was covered under the warrantee) and they gave me a 2.slow gasser. In a Million (1,000,000) years I would never consider buying the gasser. The diesel is so much more fun to drive.

11 years later and I am giving my car a complete overhaul. Would have never considered doing that with any other car with over 140,000 miles on it. For that matter I never owned any other car for more than 6 or 7 years.

 

[sfpegasus]

I left a G35 coupe and my main motivation was something different and technologically superior. And of course, thumbing my nose at my Prius neighbors.

 

[meowguy]

I do not understand what you mean by "it takes 11% more oil to make a gallon of diesel". It doesn't, it takes a barrel of oil, which is refined to make different products, with different %'s, as based on refining process, basically, you get what you get.

We had a rather lengthy discussion of this previously on the forum. I believe the above statement quoted is correct.

From American Petroleum Institute (API) statistics an average barrel (42 gallons) will produce 46% gasoline, 22% diesel, 10% jet fuel, 5.5% heavy fuel oil, and the remaining 16.5% would be everything else including lubricants, asphalt, petrochemical feedstocks, etc

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Energy-Industry-Oil-2441/Oil-refining.htm

Different types of crude produce more or less of each product. The more important fact is that diesel produces more power per gallon than gasoline and that is what pushes the car.

I too love my JSW TDI for all of the reason stated above. Knowing what I know now, I would have bought it even if I did not use it for my long commute everyday. The thing about the long commute is that along the way I have a ready supply of B5. That saves the hassle of using additives.

 

[apaterso]

my decision to buy the Jetta TDI was based almost completely on fuel economy. My new job was going to be a 40 mile commute and I wanted a fuel efficient car and i know I did not want a pirus. I don't trust the whole battery part of hybrids.

My previous VW was a 1989 Fox that I drove into the ground and figured that after 20 years I deserved the best of VW and got a TDI. Could not be happier with it.

 

[LandCruiser]

I bought IBW because (a) I wanted a small wagon; (b) I've owned diesels on and off since 1978 and like the way they sound and drive; and (c) because I was tired of filling my Audi A4 every 300 miles. I was criticized by some colleagues for taking a "step down" to a Jetta from the Audi, and I did miss some of the Audi's features--at first. But the range was worth it, the fuel economy was a bonus. The rest is history...

I agree with this guy.

The range is really the best part. I'll probably go back to gasser after the TDI. I'll miss the range by far the most.

 

[bsalbrig]

We had a rather lengthy discussion of this previously on the forum. I believe the above statement quoted is correct.


http://en.allexperts.com/q/Energy-Industry-Oil-2441/Oil-refining.htm

Different types of crude produce more or less of each product. The more important fact is that diesel produces more power per gallon than gasoline and that is what pushes the car.

I too love my JSW TDI for all of the reason stated above. Knowing what I know now, I would have bought it even if I did not use it for my long commute everyday. The thing about the long commute is that along the way I have a ready supply of B5. That saves the hassle of using additives.

I too havent seen anything that says it takes more oil to make a gallon of diesel than gasoline. Look at a diagram showing a oil distilation process, each oil product is separated based on the temperature it condenses at. Diesel condenses at a lower temperature than gasoline so it comes out lower on the collumn. What you get out of each barrel of oil will vary from barrel to barrel. I think most people get confused in that diesel has a higher btu content than gasoline and they assume oil is btu/volume.



I bought my car for two reasons: 1) cruising range 2) when fuel is rationed diesel is normally easy to come by. Yes this has happened recently in the summer of 08 and after large gulf hurricanes. I was driving my 02 and was able to fuel up at any station that sold diesel while many stations had no gasoline.