Single tank no modifications!!!

[DarrenUK]

Thought some of you might be interested in this discussion on a UK biofuel forum.

The poster 405onveg has apparently been running 2 Skoda Tdis (VW golf platform) on pure oil and blends for over 2 years. He had the preglow duration extended and the timing advanced by a mechanic using VAG-COM. I think this was probably in the last 6 months.

Others posting on the thread are reporting other 'no conversion' SVO/WVO running

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=400&page=1

 

[GoFaster]

Tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... tick ... KABOOM!

 

[TDICult]

Go Faster is right, but if there was 10,000 miles between every tick…then I would take the chance. Particularly with the cost of fuel in the UK being twice the price of SVO.

The biggest lesson I learned was from a leaking injector air seal. See picture. Within 3 weeks the outside of this injector was coated in carbon that you could not get off with a wire brush. I thought .. well that the piston rings on that cylinder gone! I then developed bad start (after the injector seal was fixed) with multiple cranks and smoke on starting . This was driven by the cold weather. I thought..well if that oil coats the cylinders, piston rings and valves then the engine is done for. Then I made a glow plug modification and the bad starts were solved. The smoke on starting went away and I though what an important modification.

The guy with the Skoda has made the Glow plug modifications and I think this will give him a good few "ticks" before the engine "kaboom" .

I'm 10,000 miles - 75% on B100 biodiesel from waste veg oil, rest on ULSD mix and some experiments on SVO. The Elsbett kit fuel heater gets finalised this weekend before I go 100% SVO. Timing retarded!

 

[TDICult]

First Injector to leak - shows carbon build up. Cause was my bad installation. The bottom clean injector had done 130k miles on Diesel.
The top one shows how quickly carbon builds up.

Injector below looks wet as I tried to clean it with WD40. The carbon needed a chisel to get it off.

Note all this was when running on standard Diesel not Biodiesel or SVO.

The point here in my mind is that poor running whether cause by
-poor compression,
-poor timing,
-poor atomisation caused by cold SVO/WVO -
-poor injector pop pressure,
-poor starts
-Short glow plug operation followed by a bad start
-short drive runs
will lead to carbon build up. This will wreck the engine.

By making a glow plug modification the Skoda TDI has reduced his risk. He could reduce his risk further by running on standard diesel.. but thats boring.

Time will tell.

 

[TDICult]

oh..... how do you shrink photos?

 

[memphis tdi]

I have run 76000mi in my 2002 Jetta TDI/Auto on at least a 50/50mix
wvo/diesel and have 126000 total on the car, last 20000 + with PP520s.

20000+ in my wifes 2000 Bettle TDI/5spd, 63000 total mi. with VanAAken box.

63000 in my 2001 Dodge Cummins Total of 163000 mi with +60hp injectors & Edge EZ box.

ZERO FAILURES.

DAMN!!!! THAT BOMB HAS BEEN TICKING A LONG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Beetler]

I have run 76000mi in my 2002 Jetta TDI/Auto on at least a 50/50mix
wvo/diesel and have 126000 total on the car, last 20000 + with PP520s.

20000+ in my wifes 2000 Bettle TDI/5spd, 63000 total mi. with VanAAken box.

63000 in my 2001 Dodge Cummins Total of 163000 mi with +60hp injectors & Edge EZ box.

ZERO FAILURES.

DAMN!!!! THAT BOMB HAS BEEN TICKING A LONG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only the failures are of interest to the devout minds of the forum.
Your successes mean nothing to minds already made up; the religious right.
But we on the margins are still here, and listening.
Keep on greasing.

 

[keks]

I applaud you greasers for doing what you do.
WVO will be a safe alternative once all the kinks are worked out. These kinks will never be found with out people taking the risk.
Once I have $$$ for another car or big repairs I will also take the WVO challenge. It's to risky at the moment with me being in school and all.

Keep on greasing ! !

 

[memphis tdi]

Thanks Beetler!

An open mind used with some common cents goes a long way.

At this point, even if all 3 blew up today, I would still be money ahead.

 

[validius]

Thanks Beetler!

An open mind used with some common cents goes a long way.

At this point, even if all 3 blew up today, I would still be money ahead.

And you would have destroyed three perfectly good cars with your abuse.

 

[bluesmoker]

Thanks Beetler!

An open mind used with some common cents goes a long way.

At this point, even if all 3 blew up today, I would still be money ahead.

Really??

This retard is on to his second engine. Great fuel savings there!



http://getoffoil.blogspot.com/

 

[GoFaster]

All this goes to show is that doing this is a statistical crapshoot. The engine MIGHT blow up after 10,000 km. Or it might go 400,000 km without blowing up. The same can be said no matter the fuel source ... but using a fuel that does not meet the engine manufacturer's specifications tilts the odds.

Comparable example is the old deal about grampa saying that smoking isn't bad for you because he made it to 90 years old smoking a pack a day. Perhaps ... but the odds are not in favor of that happening.

 

[memphis tdi]

It has been proven scientifically that smoking WILL kill you eventually.

The same cannot be said about SVO/WVO and a diesel engine.

 

[alex97jazzblue]

what a tragedy, I just wish so baaaad that GM made diesel buicks, that we could tell all these lunatics that GM pushrod diesels are the "best" for greese conversions.

That way they would stop ruining perfectly good VAG engines and 'stimulate' the american economy.

What can I say, I love VW, I love the TDI and it makes me sick that people would molest their car this way.

It must be nice to be rich and afford to a science project on your car, then throw it away when the engine asphyxiates.

 

[memphis tdi]

And who owns the 3 perfectly good cars?

You are correct that guy is a retard, read his posts.

 

[Fourdiesel]

It has been proven scientifically that smoking WILL kill you eventually.

The same cannot be said about SVO/WVO and a diesel engine.

Its also a statistical fact that living will kill everyone eventually! All engines die too - some sooner, some later.

 

[memphis tdi]

THANKYOU!!!!!! Humor & a Unimog, EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DarrenUK]

I think there a a few more ways of slowing down the ticks, so to speak.

While you've got VAG-COM plugged in you could:-

increase the idle/tick over as this is probably the worst engine condition for combustion (cold tick over would win) Easy enough to increase it a bit .

Reducing IQ may also help as this is injection duration and as veg takes longer to burn it would appear to make sense to stop the injection event earlier. Of course this will have some effect on engine power output.

Reducing the amount of EGR could also be usefull for reducing deposits in the intake - although there is research suggesting that the increased inlet air temperature can be advantageous.

 

[biopete]

glow plug mod?

I think there a a few more ways of slowing down the ticks, so to speak.

While you've got VAG-COM plugged in you could:-

increase the idle/tick over as this is probably the worst engine condition for combustion (cold tick over would win) Easy enough to increase it a bit .

DarrenUK, can you elaborate on this increase idle/tick over? What is that? Also, what exactly was glow plug mod this guy did? Can you elaborate please?

I think the oil is probably a huge factor in the svo user's success. They are probably using new rapeseed oil. Not having done the research yet myself, that probably helps keep injectors clean. if my injectors start nailing this week after wvo use, i am going to try a tank new canola from costco at 4.00 a gallon.

 

[DarrenUK]

Hello Pete,

I mean to increase the rpm when at idle. It is possible to adjust idle using the adaption function with VAG-COM

see the OBEDwiki for information

http://wiki.obed.org.uk/index.php?title=Volkswagen_group_Tdi_engine_with_VP_37_injection_pump

 

[biopete]

Hello Pete,

I mean to increase the rpm when at idle. It is possible to adjust idle using the adaption function with VAG-COM

see the OBEDwiki for information

http://wiki.obed.org.uk/index.php?title=Volkswagen_group_Tdi_engine_with_VP_37_injection_pump

Ahh, thanks. You are very kind. And the glow plug mod is just the standard lengthening glow time?

 

[DarrenUK]

I think that is all they are doing.

Many German DIYers fit glow plugs to IDI engines that protrude further into the chamber (either finding an alternative plug that fits or turning back the seating surface a few mm on a lathe)

Elsbett also do this with IDIs and the VW Tdi - on the Tdi the injector position is changed - so I would have to say it would be experimental to try this on a Tdi.

I however stumble onto this post which would appear relevant. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=122958&highlight=iss+beru
The plug mentioned is standard for the people carrier / minivans

VW Sharan 1.9TDi 10.2001>
Ford Galaxy 1.9TDi 10.2001>
SEAT Alhambra 1.9TDi 10.2001>

 

[McBrew]

You are correct that guy is a retard, read his posts.

Yeah... running his PD Passat on Delvac 1... not to mention all the other stuff.

 

[Chasee]

Really??

This retard is on to his second engine. Great fuel savings there!



http://getoffoil.blogspot.com/

OK, the fact that you naysayers keep pointing to this wacko's site is VERY telling. Since anyone with 2 or more neurons to rub together can see that his issues had nothing to do with his fuel choice, why constantly link to it as if it somehow validates your naysayer position? You lot definitely need a "handler", PR Advisor, or semi-competent Spin Dr.

Comparable example is the old deal about grampa saying that smoking isn't bad for you because he made it to 90 years old smoking a pack a day. Perhaps ... but the odds are not in favor of that happening.

Not comparable in any way, shape, or form. The human biological system is almost infinity more complicated than an engine. The human biological system varies from individual to individual to an almost infinite degree when compared to differences between factory produced engines.

If I took an identical car to my own, and treated it exactly the same as I have mine, the chances are overwhelmingly in favor of an identical result. Reason being, engines are almost identical in all key aspects, and very simple systems. Do automakers take a new engine design and subject it to the many years of huge sample size studies that drug makers do, before going to market? Of course not.

 

[bluesmoker]

OK, the fact that you naysayers keep pointing to this wacko's site is VERY telling. Since anyone with 2 or more neurons to rub together can see that his issues had nothing to do with his fuel choice, why constantly link to it as if it somehow validates your naysayer position? You lot definitely need a "handler", PR Advisor, or semi-competent Spin Dr.




Not comparable in any way, shape, or form. The human biological system is almost infinity more complicated than an engine. The human biological system varies from individual to individual to an almost infinite degree when compared to differences between factory produced engines.

If I took an identical car to my own, and treated it exactly the same as I have mine, the chances are overwhelmingly in favor of an identical result. Reason being, engines are almost identical in all key aspects, and very simple systems. Do automakers take a new engine design and subject it to the many years of huge sample size studies that drug makers do, before going to market? Of course not.

Perhaps you can't read or you have rose colored glasses; here is a direct quote from the retard's web site. As you can see the fuel choice is why his engine spontenously decomposed.


My EGR and Intake
John said it was “the worst carbon build up” he'd ever seen. "Carbon build up that you only see with 150k plus miles on them." More interestingly, the carbon build up he saw was of a SUBSTANCE he had NEVER SEEN. He called it “gummy carbon” Normally, carbon is super hard. But this stuff was like “sticky liquid paste.” John cleaned all of it. Most definitely from the veggi oil.



http://getoffoil.blogspot.com/

 

[Chasee]

Perhaps you can't read or you have rose colored glasses; here is a direct quote from the retard's web site. As you can see the fuel choice is why his engine spontenously decomposed.

Ack!! You are exhausting me. But at the same time, proving my point very nicely. Please, if this is the final Maginal line for you naysayers, this Borat's retard brother blog post of great oil get-offness, then I feel my job is done.

 

[memphis tdi]

NICE!!!!!! You go Chasee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[alex97jazzblue]

If Grease cars are so crazy, stupid, etc then why doesn't TDIclub make a new sub-forum for WVO Conversions, put a big disclaimer in a sticky and relegate these engine killers to there.

That way our Biodiesel and Fuels/Lubricants forums can go back to normal.

I dont think this is that extreme of an idea.

 

[vwcampin]

If Grease cars are so crazy, stupid, etc then why doesn't TDIclub make a new sub-forum for WVO Conversions, put a big disclaimer in a sticky and relegate these engine killers to there.

That way our Biodiesel and Fuels/Lubricants forums can go back to normal.

I dont think this is that extreme of an idea.

If we could be civil about things then it would not be an issue. Rather than call us "lunatics", either don't read the post or try and add something productive. Are those that use WVO in the Power Enhancements threads complaining about how these lunatics could possibly ruining these VAG products by adding bigger injectors, bigger turbos and non stock tunes Certainly the VW engineers didn't design your TDI to run with non OEM nozzles and turbos and and an ECU remap!