Putting the B4v's issues' history on one thread

[MarsBar]

Realized just how messy and all over the place the saga of my B4V stumble/die issue is, so I'm going to put it all in just this thread. Here's the history --

2013
April: guru diagnosed limp mode, repaired blk/wh wire, relay 109 replaced, N75 replaced
May: stumbling problem begins, replaced relay 109 again just because. Problem continues, happens more often as time goes on
Aug: cleaned red battery terminal, helped for a short time
Sept: flex pipe breaks, and the stumbling issue goes away until the pipe is repaired
Nov/Dec: problem is getting worse again

2014
Jan or so: replaced red battery cable lug that was seriously eroded.
Problem goes away immediately, totally, and completely and I do the dance of joy. Until. . .

2015
Feb: replaced battery
Mar/Apr: problem begins again, slowly at first then gets worse
Dec: parked the *#^@& thing and borrowed a friends car. Matt came by, rode around with me for almost an hour with zero failure, no codes, nothing unusual showing up on VCDS. Checked N109, wires, nothing found. Pulled the check valve by the fuel tank, a little narrowed, so drilled it out on a hunch.

2016
Mar: here we go again, parked it & borrowed a friends Ranger
Apr: no problem 'cause I'm not driving it!
May: accident on freeway in Ranger (I'm ok, it's not). Resurrect the B4V, pull the sender. There were bits of "stuff" in the fuel in tank, so pumped out & filtered/strained the fuel, saw one glob of something through the pump hose. Not a spec of difference. Guru wondering about water in fuel system, rust.

So, to summarize -- at first, the car will occasionally stumble when turning left from a stop light, as soon as I put the clutch in it will die. If feather the throttle, it will stumble along for a minute or so before dying. It always fires right back up. As time progresses, it starts doing it at any time under literally any circumstance -- cruising on the highway, taking off from a stop light, turning, straight, warmed up, cold, full tank, low fuel, etc. I can't make it happen, it's pretty much random, even more frustrating.

It actually went away completely after replacing the red battery cable lug, until I had to replace the battery. There has to be a clue in there somewhere, even though I know the battery is out of the equation once the engine fires up. It also went dormant while the flex pipe was broken and started again after that repair was made.

My question about the water/rust possibility is how long would something like that take to worsen to the point of disabling the car? This has been going on for 3 years and doesn't ever get bad enough to fail completely.

Parts that have been replaced/repaired/verified as good:
Relay 109 (twice), N75, ignition, battery, black/white wire to N109, red batt cable lug, fuel filter (twice)

Gurus have been working along with us on this, and even they have gotten stumped/perplexed. I've gone through probably 100 pages of various search results over the past few days, all the folks that have had similar issues have also had no-starts, which I have never had.

Alrighty folks, what the firetruck is this?

 

[tripl-e]

You need to be logging data with VCDS when the symptom presents itself. This could be happening almost anywhere, frayed wires in the IP harness, blockage in the fuel delivery plumbing (less likely in my opinion), ignition switch gremlins, quantity adjuster inside the IP, just about anywhere an intermittent fault could arise and that's darn near anywhere. Without the VCDS to observe the IP's behavior you'll be throwing parts at it until you get lucky. It would cost much less to buy the VCDS and then you'd have your own.
The only other thing I can offer is my good luck wishes!
EEE

 

[MarsBar]

I've put out the word for any lay person with VCDS that would like lunch/dinner, 6-pack, bottle of wine, whatever, to ride around with us and see if we can get an "in the moment" reading. So far, no takers.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

I don't have the B4 in my driveway anymore to check,but can you replace the positive (red)wire going to battery? I believe it goes to starter. All connections good on starter,including that little ground strap on the starter itself?

 

[MarsBar]

UPDATE -- SOLVED! After having hubby drive it for a few days as I was just too scared of it, he started wiggling wires and found one that would immediately shut it down -- a wire to the crank sensor connector. Fixed that and some others that were corroded on the back (where it wasn't visible) and not attached for grounding. Haven't had the weird stumbling/dying since.

 

[TDI Jim]

Best thing to do for any german car is to go over every ground at least once a year and meticulously clean every one and it's contact point. Congrats MarsBar!

 

[MarsBar]

Unfortunately, I have a feeling the sensor itself is now failing -- cranks forever, smokes when cranking, and IF it starts blows smoke for a minute or so. After that, she runs fine until sitting for a few hours. No bubbles whatsoever in lines. Hubby is ready to sell it and get something newer instead of put more money into it (needs a clutch). Love this car, but I'm starting to lean his way.

 

[ToddA1]

Interesting that you never threw a code. When my CPS went bad, my car wouldn't start.

With your car shutting off, I'd think you'd see the G28 code at least reporting as "intermittent", "implausible", etc.

Glad it's fixed though. Easy to test, by taking a resistance reading.... it should read between 1.0-1.5K ohms, between pins 1 and 2.

PITA to change.

-Todd

 

[MarsBar]

I think the wire shorting out was masking the sensor issue. Now that the wire is fixed, the underlying issue is showing up. It hasn't ever lit up the CEL, but also didnt't show anything when Matt was plugged in. It might now, except it won't start at all this morning.

Worst time to happen possible, hubby having shoulder/rotator cuff issues so his wrenching abilities are currently minimal.

 

[ToddA1]

Test the sensor. It's a 2 minute test and a $50 part.

-Todd

 

[MarsBar]

Have no alternate transport while car is down. This sucks!!!!

 

[MarsBar]

Took forever to get her to start, but she finally did with a cloud of smoke. Restarted a few times with no problem. Can't get a G28 till Monday, then hope a buddy can change it during the week.

Anybody wanna volunteer? Can buy dinner, make a home cooked meal, six pack, good wine, etc.

 

[MarsBar]

Didn't think I was going to be able to leave the house this morning. She took for-ever to start. Caught 4 diff times but wouldn't stay, massive amts of smoke since she was basically flooded.

A couple things I've noticed, that may be nothing but you never know --
cranking speed is slowish, then after a few tries it will be noticeably faster
oil light flashes while the cranking is going on
temp light seems to stay on longer than it used to

Also, anyone have any tips to make the replacing job go easier?

Thanks, folks!!

 

[MarsBar]

OK, she's dead in the water as of this morning. Tried for 25 minutes, she almost caught a few times but never stayed.

Something we've both noticed besides the cranking speed being too slow to register one time and showing 250 on the tach at others, is that today the tach fluctuated a few times during a couple crankings, but the engine speed never sounded any different.

Still sounding like I have a bad G28/ESS/Crank Sensor????

 

[Ol'Rattler]

OK, she's dead in the water as of this morning. Tried for 25 minutes, she almost caught a few times but never stayed.

Something we've both noticed besides the cranking speed being too slow to register one time and showing 250 on the tach at others, is that today the tach fluctuated a few times during a couple crankings, but the engine speed never sounded any different.

Still sounding like I have a bad G28/ESS/Crank Sensor????

Amazing. if it doesn't start within a few seconds, stop and troubleshoot the problem. All that cranking 25 minutes will do is destroy the starter.

 

[MarsBar]

I am not so #^* as to crank for 25 min straight. Sheesh. I crank for 5 seconds or so, stop, wait a few, repeat. Keep hoping but that hope kept getting dashed.

 

[deecee]

Fueling, electrical or timing is your problem.

You say it's getting fuel, have you cracked the lines going to the injectors while cranking and seen fuel with your eyes?

 

[MarsBar]

Yes, hubby (big rig diesel mechanic) verified both fuel at the injectors and unburnt out the tailpipe.

How can one check timing if it won't do anything but crank?

 

[KLXD]

Set the engine at TDC, take off valve cover and see that the slot in the cam is parallel to the head, take off the timing belt cover and see if the sprocket hole is aligned with the hole in the mount or maybe a little clockwise from the mount hole.

It does sound like a timing issue. Maybe the crank sprocket is moving?

Have you tried disconnecting the temp sensor. That will force the plugs to run longer and would help if timing is off.

How many miles on this thing?

 

[MarsBar]

Disconnected the MAF, no difference. Tested the GP's, found 3 bad, so will be replacing all 4 today. Have not pulled the temp sensor (location?).

Currently has approx 320K on it, rebuild at 216K, then valves/head/etc. at 219K because good ol' Marcel who did the "rebuild" re-used the old crank bolt instead of installing the new one (there's a whole thread on that 2009 fustercluck). TB due in another 10K.

 

[KLXD]

I think you know the plugs aren't your problem but if they are bad they should be replaced.

Not sure if the coolant sensor involved is the one in the end of the head or the hose to the rad. And I've got a Jetta not a B4.

Rereplaced crank bolt huh? New sprocket with the new bolt??? Crank end boogered up in the incident? Who installed the second one. Are we sure he installed it correctly? Oiled, something like 70 ft-lb plus a quarter turn?

 

[MarsBar]

The good repair job was done by a reputable shop down here (bought it in Oregon, we live in San Jose), who also found some other half-a$$ things and made those right, too. That was 7 years and almost 100k miles ago.

 

[KLXD]

I'm usually pretty skeptical about the moving sprocket on AHU's but in your case on '96 it seems a good possibility.

Do you know if it has the D shaped crank end or the earlier keyed end?

You need to dive in there and check the timing. It fits your symptoms and needs to be ruled out.

 

[MarsBar]

Working on checking the timing now. It's a 1Z engine. Finally found the cam slot, still trying to find the "sprocket hole" to see if it's lined up with the "hole in the mount".

Would a clogged intake have any influence? I haven't cleaned mine since we bought the car, about 100K miles ago.

 

[ketchupshirt88]

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/timing-belt-installation-vw-jetta-tdi-ahu-engine-and-vw-passat-1z/

2nd pic down is where its supposed to be but if pump timing is off it obviously wont go into the inner hole behind the sprocket.

 

[MarsBar]

Thanks, Ketchup (love the screen name!). Timing is dead nuts on. Just did the fuel squirtage test, got only spittage. Guess that means the problem is with the IP.